Bureaucracy halting progress

[QAZqaz]

So I'm kinda alone and (un)afraid in the job I'm in. None of my leadership are aircrew. I am in a flying air advisor position. When I ask for flight gear (like boots) they want me to provide justification as to why I need them. I had to explain how AFE 11-301 reg talks about unit procuring items like boots and other flight gear. But they want me to provide additional justification, as the 11-301 gives examples but no list of such approved items. For example, Apple pencils and watches have been issued to me at previous bases, but the 11-301 does not cover that stuff. 

Then, when I provide justification, they look at it through their ground officer lens, and make their own determination if we should have it or not, based on their opinion.

My position has plenty of funding for flight gear. The problem is I have no solid regulation to point them to that determines what is or is not allowed to purchase. So when I ask for watches and apple pencils, I get looked at sideways, and when I explain why, they want AFI/Regs that clearly define what is approved/not approved. And if I can't provide that, then it's up to them on if we should or should not get the gear.

Is there any AFI/AFMAN or whatever that says something like "commanders will determine what flight gear to purchase for the unit?" Under what regulation are commanders able to purchase flight related items? Any other AFI's I should know about that governs this stuff? RA regs?

If I can just show something, anything that basically says I am allowed to make the decision on what to purchase, since I am the chief of flying operations here, that would be awesome. Just trying to find more ammo because I'm getting bombarded with "provide more justification" all the time. We got a pot of money for this stuff but I don't have the knowledge to show why my requests are legitimate. Ideas?

[TheNewGazmo]

So I'm kinda alone and (un)afraid in the job I'm in. None of my leadership are aircrew. I am in a flying air advisor position. When I ask for flight gear (like boots) they want me to provide justification as to why I need them. I had to explain how AFE 11-301 reg talks about unit procuring items like boots and other flight gear. But they want me to provide additional justification, as the 11-301 gives examples but no list of such approved items. For example, Apple pencils and watches have been issued to me at previous bases, but the 11-301 does not cover that stuff. 
Then, when I provide justification, they look at it through their ground officer lens, and make their own determination if we should have it or not, based on their opinion.
My position has plenty of funding for flight gear. The problem is I have no solid regulation to point them to that determines what is or is not allowed to purchase. So when I ask for watches and apple pencils, I get looked at sideways, and when I explain why, they want AFI/Regs that clearly define what is approved/not approved. And if I can't provide that, then it's up to them on if we should or should not get the gear.
Is there any AFI/AFMAN or whatever that says something like "commanders will determine what flight gear to purchase for the unit?" Under what regulation are commanders able to purchase flight related items? Any other AFI's I should know about that governs this stuff? RA regs?
If I can just show something, anything that basically says I am allowed to make the decision on what to purchase, since I am the chief of flying operations here, that would be awesome. Just trying to find more ammo because I'm getting bombarded with "provide more justification" all the time. We got a pot of money for this stuff but I don't have the knowledge to show why my requests are legitimate. Ideas?

Who is your boss? Why does he/she not know that you are entitled flight gear in the position you are in? With that being said, there are items essential for the execution of your flying duties (not Apple pens and watches) and then there are items that are purchased with excess funds throughout the year or during the typical, mindless government-end-of-fiscal-year spending frenzies (Apple pens and watches).

I would talk to an FM supervisor to see if they know of an AFI/AFMAN the governs unit spending. A lot of items, such as Apple pens and watches probably fall into a gray area as long as the CC can justify they are being purchased for official duties and are essential to the mission.

[bcuziknow]

“I am in a flying air advisor position“ - God help us!

[QAZqaz]

1 hour ago, TheNewGazmo said:

 

 

Who is your boss? Why does he/she not know that you are entitled flight gear in the position you are in? With that being said, there are items essential for the execution of your flying duties (not Apple pens and watches) and then there are items that are purchased with excess funds throughout the year or during the typical, mindless government-end-of-fiscal-year spending frenzies (Apple pens and watches).

I would talk to an FM supervisor to see if they know of an AFI/AFMAN the governs unit spending. A lot of items, such as Apple pens and watches probably fall into a gray area as long as the CC can justify they are being purchased for official duties and are essential to the mission.

 

I don't wanna put too much out there WRT who my boss is, but they are admin / logistics types. 

So how is it determined what is "essential" vs not. Like the MDSV3 says flashlight, EFB etc, ok clean kill. 11-301 covers examples of flight gear like flight suits and boots...kinda clean kill but not really because there isn't a comprehensive list. Like, I'm getting push back for buying boots right now.

So what is required and what isn't, and who is authorized to say what is authorized and what isn't?

[Danger41]

[BashiChuni]

Apple pen 😂🤣

sounds like it’s perfectly reasonable for your boss to ask for justification 

Edited March 12, 2022 by BashiChuni

[QAZqaz]

On 3/12/2022 at 11:51 PM, BashiChuni said:

Apple pen 😂🤣

sounds like it’s perfectly reasonable for your boss to ask for justification 

Does sound a little strange but we also use them for training on projectors as well as in the aircraft. Had it covered by a previous unit and it is on the EFB approved list. Makes master document ocean crossings easier. Really, the boots and flight gear has been the hardest to procure. Is a watch flight gear? is it a niceity? If my aircraft doesn't have a CSEL like it normally would, can I justify a Garmin In Reach? Just wondering if anyone has knowledge in this area and knows of regs that cover this kinda thing.

[BashiChuni]

Good luck dude. You kind of come off as a entitled little *****

could just be me. 
 

 

 

or not

Edited March 14, 2022 by BashiChuni

[QAZqaz]

2 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

Good luck dude. You kind of come off as a entitled little *****

could just be me. 
 

 

 

or not

It's all good. Maybe if you saw the kinda work environment I'm dealing with here it would make more sense. My leadership is not at the "base" I work from nor are they operators or any sort. The gear is not provided by any supply office because there isn't one. My finance officer is an Army guy trying to wrap his head around our regs, and I'm just trying to show where justification for things comes from. Training has been difficult due to PN inadequacies, and while some of this stuff can be considered nicities (apple pencils) I figured it would be beneficial. 

I appreciate the feedback regardless. Honestly, if I'm coming off like a bitch about things I want to know.

[jazzdude]

Good luck dude. You kind of come off as a entitled little *****
could just be me. 
 
 
 
or not

Looking at what I've been issued by various (airlift and trainer) squadrons, there's been a lot of nice to haves as well as needs issued.

Things that aren't essential but made life better: various pubs bags, rolling luggage bags, kit bags for deployment, multiple flashlights (from fingerlights to strong lights for preflight and everything in between), knives, G-Shock watches, seat cushions, lightweight sleeping bags, kneeboards (I'm a fan of the plastic standard issue one). Another big one is foreflight, which in the earlier days was unit/wing funded (maybe still is?).

Nice to haves I've been issued that ground guys don't know why we get issued since they have to buy them: goretex jackets, fleece jackets, fleece hats, gloves, contact lenses (though not every squadron funds them).

Point is, I've been issued lots of niceties that aren't strictly authorized that make doing the mission easier, all under the sq/cc's discretion. Which can be hard to justify if your CC doesn't understand it have experience with the mission.

On the other hand, initial leather A2 jacket and nomex flight jackets? Approved APEL that allowed for glasses inserts? Like pulling teeth to get issued.

[Vito]

 Not to come across in the wrong way, but what’s an air advisor?

Nevermind, Googled it. Sounds like an interesting job.

Edited March 16, 2022 by Vito

[slc]

Not really

 

https://www.jbmdl.jb.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/1509158/honoring-remembering-the-nato-atca-nine/

[dream big]

6 hours ago, Vito said:

 Not to come across in the wrong way, but what’s an air advisor?

Nevermind, Googled it. Sounds like an interesting job.

It is for some people that like that kind of work, for most people it’s a shit deal.  Thank god we don’t have to “train” the Afghans anymore, they can have their godforsaken country.  

[QAZqaz]

3 hours ago, dream big said:

It is for some people that like that kind of work, for most people it’s a shit deal.  Thank god we don’t have to “train” the Afghans anymore, they can have their godforsaken country.  

That's basically it. It's been a pretty good deal so far, definitely higher highs and lower lows than dealing with standard USAF stuff. I would say it's like 50% of the standard air advisor thing, other 50% being normal flying ops. Really so far the worst part has been dealing with leadership and explaining why it's not just an IPAD, I need it for pubs, etc. But I gotta justify everything or else they think I'm trying to get away with murder. 

But otherwise its pretty good. I've always tried to keep eyes / ears open for weird stuff like this that works for me. Get a BOP follow on thing that was the driving factor. 

I made some traction in justifying my case to the Bob's so for now I'm good. 

[Standby]

That’s a hard sell man. Do you have any bros at a UPT base? They might be able to ask their RA for a sample policy memo, which could then be used as a baseline to combat the POG quartermaster. 

[brabus]

It’s amazing how these shoe clerks act like you’re trying to withdraw money from their personal checking account, but then they have no problem buying another $50k round of TVs for the wing to replace all the perfectly functional TVs bought 2 years ago…because EOY funds (but not to be spent on shit you actually want/need).

Edited March 17, 2022 by brabus

[QAZqaz]

18 hours ago, brabus said:

It’s amazing how these shoe clerks act like you’re trying to withdraw money from their personal checking account, but then they have no problem buying another $50k round of TVs for the wing to replace all the perfectly functional TVs bought 2 years ago…because EOY funds (but not to be spent on shit you actually want/need).

So that's been my biggest problem with it. The case has more money than you can imagine, and we only use a small fraction of it. On the high end, maybe 40% of it. And that includes TDY, housing, rental cars etc which make up 90% of the 40%. And the case is funded by the country, not the USG. 

[HeyEng]

Try this, don’t request to get anything issued until September. When the new FY bearing down on them they will be begging you to take stuff! 
I remember in my old unit sometimes September would be like Christmas! Survival knives, Ford wrenches, winter flight gloves, Gortex would suddenly appear out of nowhere!

Seriously though, your position must have came with some sort of funding to include x amount of equipment issue.