Medical Retirement Gouge?

[Guest LumberjackAxe]

I'm nearing the end of my MEB process and will be medically retired in the next few months. Unfortunately, I probably will never fly again (my MEB condition is Bipolar, and after the Germanwings incident in 2015, I don't think the FAA will grant a waiver). I applied for grad school this fall, doing a total career change in my thirties, and although my retirement paycheck is nice, it isn't enough to live on. So far I've gotten the following advice from a variety of folks:

- Use the VR&E program to pay for school since it has an expiration date and save the GI Bill for later

- Get the following three documents while still AD: Memo rating (done), civil service preference letter, VA Loan waiver letter

- I already have my VA ratings so I don't really have to do much there, although they whiffed a few of the ratings, so I'll be appealing those

- I'm using SkillBridge to get my foot in the door in my desired follow on industry

- I have digital copies of my flight records (MilKeep) and OPRs/TRs

- I currently don't have a job lined up, but if I get accepted to grad school, the BAH + pension will be enough to get by

- I don't plan on working in the military industry anymore, but I am up for reinvestigation for my TS/SCI clearance, so I'll at least have that for another 5 years.

Anything else I should try to do or obtain while I'm still active duty? Any other pointers or gouge for separating/retiring early?

 

[Bigred]

4 minutes ago, LumberjackAxe said:

 

- I don't plan on working in the military industry anymore, but I am up for reinvestigation for my TS/SCI clearance, so I'll at least have that for another 5 years.

 

 

I gotta ask, if you are being separated due to being bipolar, what is the likelihood that you’ll be cleared for continual TS/SCI access? 

[Guest LumberjackAxe]

7 minutes ago, Bigred said:

I gotta ask, if you are being separated due to being bipolar, what is the likelihood that you’ll be cleared for continual TS/SCI access? 

Surprisingly no issue. I reported it to my manager as soon as I received the diagnosis/started taking lithium, and my commander made the recommendation that I was "not a threat to national security." The general impression I got was that they didn't really care about the diagnosis or the fact that I sought mental health treatment. Granted, it's under control, so maybe if I was suicidal it would be different, but overall it seemed liked no one on the security side really cared so long as I reported it.

[Standby]

Not to derail, but didn’t they move to a continuous vetting cycle for security clearances instead of the periodic (re) investigations? I’m not a security dude, so I am not sure if that would affect your disposition after med retirement.

I have several friends who have been through the med retirement process (broken back, broken neck, lung issues, etc) but they didn’t provide the level of detail you did above. Sorry I can’t contribute more to the thread. God speed!

[Guardian]

Does continuous vetting mean your security clearance dies the day you leave the service if it’s been > 5 years since the last full up investigation?

[Standby]

6 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Does continuous vetting mean your security clearance dies the day you leave the service if it’s been > 5 years since the last full up investigation?

I didn’t sleep at a Holiday Inn last night, and I’m not a security manager. Quoted from a 2019 article on ClearanceJobs

Another question raised is what happens when a worker under CE leaves his or her cleared position? If your clearance is good for five years (for example) and you leave your job with four to go, are you still monitored? If you leave the cleared industry entirely, does Big Brother keep an eye on your Facebook account until your time is up?

According to Boyd, if you work for the federal government as a civilian, contractor, or military member eligible for access to classified information, you will remain subject to CE only as long as you maintain a government affiliation. “When government employment or affiliation ends, the individual is unenrolled from Continuous Evaluation and the action is recorded in the appropriate clearance repository.” But what if you decide later to return to the cleared workforce? Do you start from scratch with the old adjudication regime? Nope, says Boyd: “Continuous Evaluation would resume if the individual is deemed eligible for access to classified information after returning to a government affiliated job.”

[Smokin]

CE requires a unit to have ownership of you.  If you retire and no one gains you, either government or private sector, you age out of CE and your clearance lapses.  However, there is a window of either 1 or 2 years for you to get gained by someone else.  Probably not long enough to go to school and then get hired with a clearance, but plenty long if you are going to transition fairly directly to private sector or GS type stuff.  It is not like the old 10 year clearance for regular secret where you could get a re-investigation a year prior to retirement and be good for most of a decade.

[OregonHerc]

On 3/17/2022 at 10:25 AM, LumberjackAxe said:

I'm nearing the end of my MEB process and will be medically retired in the next few months. Unfortunately, I probably will never fly again (my MEB condition is Bipolar, and after the Germanwings incident in 2015, I don't think the FAA will grant a waiver). I applied for grad school this fall, doing a total career change in my thirties, and although my retirement paycheck is nice, it isn't enough to live on. So far I've gotten the following advice from a variety of folks:

- Use the VR&E program to pay for school since it has an expiration date and save the GI Bill for later

- Get the following three documents while still AD: Memo rating (done), civil service preference letter, VA Loan waiver letter

- I already have my VA ratings so I don't really have to do much there, although they whiffed a few of the ratings, so I'll be appealing those

- I'm using SkillBridge to get my foot in the door in my desired follow on industry

- I have digital copies of my flight records (MilKeep) and OPRs/TRs

- I currently don't have a job lined up, but if I get accepted to grad school, the BAH + pension will be enough to get by

- I don't plan on working in the military industry anymore, but I am up for reinvestigation for my TS/SCI clearance, so I'll at least have that for another 5 years.

Anything else I should try to do or obtain while I'm still active duty? Any other pointers or gouge for separating/retiring early?

 

Don’t worry as much about memo ratings, VA loan stuff etc. You can get that on ebenefits. 
 

I highly recommend converting your SGLI to VGLI immediately upon retirement. No medical check if you do so within x days of retiring. If for some reason it’s not at $400k, do so before leaving. You can decrease it once out but not increase it. 
 

I’ve been out for about 8 years working in non mil related careers (medically retired as an O3). Please feel free to reach out directly and I can pass on whatever knowledge I have. 

[VMFA187]

On 3/17/2022 at 10:25 AM, LumberjackAxe said:

I'm nearing the end of my MEB process and will be medically retired in the next few months. Unfortunately, I probably will never fly again (my MEB condition is Bipolar, and after the Germanwings incident in 2015, I don't think the FAA will grant a waiver). I applied for grad school this fall, doing a total career change in my thirties, and although my retirement paycheck is nice, it isn't enough to live on. So far I've gotten the following advice from a variety of folks:

- Use the VR&E program to pay for school since it has an expiration date and save the GI Bill for later

- Get the following three documents while still AD: Memo rating (done), civil service preference letter, VA Loan waiver letter

- I already have my VA ratings so I don't really have to do much there, although they whiffed a few of the ratings, so I'll be appealing those

- I'm using SkillBridge to get my foot in the door in my desired follow on industry

- I have digital copies of my flight records (MilKeep) and OPRs/TRs

- I currently don't have a job lined up, but if I get accepted to grad school, the BAH + pension will be enough to get by

- I don't plan on working in the military industry anymore, but I am up for reinvestigation for my TS/SCI clearance, so I'll at least have that for another 5 years.

Anything else I should try to do or obtain while I'm still active duty? Any other pointers or gouge for separating/retiring early?

 

How long did the process last? I am just now starting a MEB/PEB process for the Marine Corps, so there are obvious differences. With that said, I was diagnosed with epilepsy which is controlled by medication when I was an F-18 IP. Two waiver attempts were both denied and I left the Marine Corps as a Captain - No one advised me about a medical retirement. I was fortunate that I was picked up for a Reservist billet assisting transitioning Marines with their transition from Active Duty to civilian, and am now eligible for a Reserve Retirement Awaiting Pay at Age 60. 

Any knowledge about the timeline or process that you can pass would be hugely helpful as no one I can find really knows anything about the process, including my command. 

[Guest LumberjackAxe]

13 hours ago, OregonHerc said:

Don’t worry as much about memo ratings, VA loan stuff etc. You can get that on ebenefits. 
 

I highly recommend converting your SGLI to VGLI immediately upon retirement. No medical check if you do so within x days of retiring. If for some reason it’s not at $400k, do so before leaving. You can decrease it once out but not increase it. 
 

I’ve been out for about 8 years working in non mil related careers (medically retired as an O3). Please feel free to reach out directly and I can pass on whatever knowledge I have. 

Mine is already at 400k, so I'll go ahead and convert it on day 1, thanks for the insight I never heard of this.

[Guest LumberjackAxe]

41 minutes ago, VMFA187 said:

How long did the process last? I am just now starting a MEB/PEB process for the Marine Corps, so there are obvious differences. With that said, I was diagnosed with epilepsy which is controlled by medication when I was an F-18 IP. Two waiver attempts were both denied and I left the Marine Corps as a Captain - No one advised me about a medical retirement. I was fortunate that I was picked up for a Reservist billet assisting transitioning Marines with their transition from Active Duty to civilian, and am now eligible for a Reserve Retirement Awaiting Pay at Age 60. 

Any knowledge about the timeline or process that you can pass would be hugely helpful as no one I can find really knows anything about the process, including my command. 

That's kind of impressive they didn't send you to an MEB, but also not surprising. I highly recommend you create an account at www.pebforum.com, that's where I've gotten most of my information. I also hired the site's owner as a lawyer to help me navigate this whole process. It turns out I didn't need him as much as I anticipated, but still worth the money.

[VMFA187]

1 hour ago, LumberjackAxe said:

That's kind of impressive they didn't send you to an MEB, but also not surprising. I highly recommend you create an account at www.pebforum.com, that's where I've gotten most of my information. I also hired the site's owner as a lawyer to help me navigate this whole process. It turns out I didn't need him as much as I anticipated, but still worth the money.

Thanks. 

[Guest LumberjackAxe]

1 hour ago, VMFA187 said:

How long did the process last? I am just now starting a MEB/PEB process for the Marine Corps, so there are obvious differences. With that said, I was diagnosed with epilepsy which is controlled by medication when I was an F-18 IP. Two waiver attempts were both denied and I left the Marine Corps as a Captain - No one advised me about a medical retirement. I was fortunate that I was picked up for a Reservist billet assisting transitioning Marines with their transition from Active Duty to civilian, and am now eligible for a Reserve Retirement Awaiting Pay at Age 60. 

Any knowledge about the timeline or process that you can pass would be hugely helpful as no one I can find really knows anything about the process, including my command. 

Here's my entire timeline. I'll be submitting a piece for Task and Purpose once I'm actually separated (and probably posting here too) because I think my experience should've been preventable and hopefully it'll help other people. Also some crazy shit happened while in a single seat, single ship jet that terrified the out of me, which is when I told my flight doc something's wrong and I shouldn't be flying.

 

14 Feb 21: Told flight doc I'm not fit to fly due to mental health
24 Mar 21: First appointment with Behavioral Health Psychologist
19 May 21: Referred to Mental Health by Behavioral Health
24 Jun 21: First appointment with Mental Health Psychologist
28 Jul 21: First appointment with Psychiatrist
23 Aug 21: Diagnosed with Bipolar II by Psychiatrist
26 Aug 21: IRILO initiated by PEBLO (this is when the actual MEB process started)
14 Sep 21: AFPC directs full MEB
16 Sep 21: Inbrief with PEBLO/IDES selected/AAC 37 established
14 Oct 21: First VA Exam
14 Jan 22: Final VA Exam
9 Feb 22: Signed AF Form 618 with PEBLO--Bipolar II is only MEB condition
10 Feb 22: AFPC receives MEB Package
1 Mar 22: Ratings received
4 Mar 22: Signed Form 1180 and Preseparation Retirement Worksheet

I anticipate receiving my separation orders this week with a date of separation in June (after all my leave).

 

[Guest LumberjackAxe]

14 hours ago, OregonHerc said:

Don’t worry as much about memo ratings, VA loan stuff etc. You can get that on ebenefits. 
 

I highly recommend converting your SGLI to VGLI immediately upon retirement. No medical check if you do so within x days of retiring. If for some reason it’s not at $400k, do so before leaving. You can decrease it once out but not increase it. 
 

I’ve been out for about 8 years working in non mil related careers (medically retired as an O3). Please feel free to reach out directly and I can pass on whatever knowledge I have. 

Anything else that you wish you would've done differently or started sooner? Not just with military paperwork, but like anything for dependents, resume/CV help, LinkedIn profile, anything that I wouldn't think of being out of the civ force for so long?

[Sim]

1 hour ago, LumberjackAxe said:

1 Mar 22: Ratings received

100%? 

[panchbarnes]

I highly recommend this site.  It used to be completely free, but IMHO paying to access the website is completely worth it.  https://militarydisabilitymadeeasy.com/   Contains everything you need to know about the MEB process and the rating/compensation system.  For MEB, I couldn't use a VSO but with this website I didn't need the VSO.

@VMFA187attached are the USAF MEB references.

04_DoD_IntegratedDisabilityEvalSystem_Brochure.pdf DES Info for CC Fact Sheet 15 Jun 17.pdf Disability Evaluation System Fact Sheet (Aug 2018)v2.pdf

[panchbarnes]

2 hours ago, LumberjackAxe said:

Anything else that you wish you would've done differently or started sooner? Not just with military paperwork, but like anything for dependents, resume/CV help, LinkedIn profile, anything that I wouldn't think of being out of the civ force for so long?

The biggest surprise is the annual leave and retirement date.  They like to retire people within the first week of the month, they send your retirement orders pretty much without your input, and once you get the orders, it's really painful to push back the retirement date (needs CC input and can only push back to end of month), so make sure you have enough time to burn your leave (if that's what you want).  Selling back your leave is not a bad deal for medical retirement if you are not in a hurry to start work before retirement date.  But the fixed retirement date can be a pain.

[OregonHerc]

8 hours ago, LumberjackAxe said:

Anything else that you wish you would've done differently or started sooner? Not just with military paperwork, but like anything for dependents, resume/CV help, LinkedIn profile, anything that I wouldn't think of being out of the civ force for so long?

Definitely start de-militarizing your resume. Also figure out A: where you want to move, B: what you want to do and C network network network. I would personally recommend putting a civ picture/headshot on LinkedIn (if not going into a defense contractor type job).

I’m not sure the line of work you’re thinking but don’t be afraid to think outside the box or think of different jobs you’d like. Stereotypically you hear a lot of “project management” or similar.  I started as a data analyst then shifted to supply chain/logistics in my civ career. 
 

Also the difference in military and civilian salaries is one thing I wasn’t expecting.  To make the same equivalent amount due to BAH, insurance etc, you actually have to make a fair bit more in civ world. 

One last thing that took me the better part of four or five years to realize is don’t be afraid to negotiate salaries. Or move jobs.
 

 

[Sua Sponte]

A lot of FGO/SNCOs eat humble pie when they realize they have delusions of grandeur of how much they’re “worth,” salary wise, when they get out .

[OregonHerc]

6 minutes ago, Sua Sponte said:

A lot of FGO/SNCOs eat humble pie when they realize they have delusions of grandeur of how much they’re “worth,” salary wise, when they get out .

Fact.  And while we do/did get a lot of smoke blown our way about “moving directly into a leadership/middle management position”…that’s not necessarily the case for some.

That said, it’s a big time job seekers market which is quite nice. Decent signing bonuses are quite common with increased salaries (to be sure: inflation is one factor). In non tech roles, have routinely heard of 6 figure cash and stock signing bonuses in my side of the world. 

[FLEA]

6 hours ago, Sua Sponte said:

A lot of FGO/SNCOs eat humble pie when they realize they have delusions of grandeur of how much they’re “worth,” salary wise, when they get out .

Yeah, I'm personally worried about this myself. Been told you actually have better potential getting out as a CGO/NCO because companies see you more as a blank slate/moldable. Not that any of this isn't overcomeable but the consensus seems to be you need to take one step back to take two steps forward. 

[Sua Sponte]

23 minutes ago, FLEA said:

Yeah, I'm personally worried about this myself. Been told you actually have better potential getting out as a CGO/NCO because companies see you more as a blank slate/moldable. Not that any of this isn't overcomeable but the consensus seems to be you need to take one step back to take two steps forward. 

Unofficially, ageism does exist. This is especially apparent in tech.

[FLEA]

12 minutes ago, Sua Sponte said:

Unofficially, ageism does exist. This is especially apparent in tech.

Yup. You had Mark Zuckerberg announce on live TV (when asked about his perception of the role of millennials in the work place) that he flat out prefers to hire younger people because he believes they are smarter and more agile. He flat out admits on national TV he discriminates hiring based on age which is a federally protected class, and nothing comes of it. That's our society. 

[OregonHerc]

6 hours ago, FLEA said:

Yeah, I'm personally worried about this myself. Been told you actually have better potential getting out as a CGO/NCO because companies see you more as a blank slate/moldable. Not that any of this isn't overcomeable but the consensus seems to be you need to take one step back to take two steps forward. 

I tend to agree. It’s not always the case but usually it is beneficial to take a step back then move on from there.  Not necessarily a bad thing. 

[Sua Sponte]

13 hours ago, FLEA said:

Yup. You had Mark Zuckerberg announce on live TV (when asked about his perception of the role of millennials in the work place) that he flat out prefers to hire younger people because he believes they are smarter and more agile. He flat out admits on national TV he discriminates hiring based on age which is a federally protected class, and nothing comes of it. That's our society. 

That’s because when I don’t hire you, I don’t need to provide you a reason. We just “decided to move forward with other applicants.” If you want to sue, good luck.