Monkeypox - a friendly discussion.

[Pooter]

5 hours ago, bfargin said:

Yeah I'm not remembering that commissioning brief where they told us we gave up every singe right by joining the military. When your "leaders" change they rules when the wind blows, I'd push back too.

Well maybe your memory is bad because the UCMJ is covered at the academy, rotc, and OTS.. of note the concept of lawful orders. You are also introduced to the possibility of random drug testing and prohibitions on otherwise perfectly legal substances like certain pre-workouts and hemp products.  Presumably you also had to pass dodmerb and flight physicals at some point.   Deployments and readiness requirements should also not be foreign concepts by the time you commission. 
 

No one is asking you to surrender all of your rights. But I do not buy the argument you commissioned under the impression that joining the military would have no impacts on your medical requirements. 

Edited May 26, 2022 by Pooter

[Boomer6]

Since this has become another anti vs pro-vaccine thread, disguised as a discussion on constitutional rights and the military, I’ll throw something out there maybe the pro vaccine crowd might view differently than others. For clarity, I’m very much pro-vaccines (just what an anti-vaxxer would say right?).

I knew entering the AF that I might have to take the anthrax vaccine and had researched (also known as googling) the gripes ppl had about taking it and the side effects that had been reported. However, as a young lad I “knew” there was a compelling military reason for DoD to mandate members receive the vaccine, and that if I was exposed to anthrax I would be protected.

The medical community at large and especially DoD has fallen short of the trust I placed in them due to the covid vaccine and it’s rollout. My science background (copy not a doctor) made me skeptical from the start of the rollout that the breadth of side effect were known based on the expedited trials and the sample sizes involved. My trust was further eroded when I watched countless interviews with medical professionals and listened to my own flt docs shrug off any concerns of possible side effects. The effectiveness rate seemed extremely improbable, but hey it was a breakthrough vaccine so maybe it’s possible.

Here we are a year plus later and from my perspective it is clear the vaccine is not effective at preventing contraction, especially for the military demographic. I understand the readiness argument about not being deployable if you’re not vaxxed, but that is based on the assumption that if you’re not vaxxed you’re more susceptible to contracting and spreading the disease. I know multiple squadrons who continue to have vaxxed+boosted individuals contract covid and are prevented from deploying/PCSing or departing/returning from TDYs. That smells like the readiness issue not being solved by the vaccine.

I’m now anti covid vaccine because it’s ineffective. If I’m going to take a vaccine that may or may not negatively affect my health then that shit better work. This one doesn’t. It not working makes the readiness discussion the bobs are shoveling null and void. We need something that works. If that means we do something similar to yearly flu vaccines then fine.
 

Military members expect to have to do things they’d rather not do. They expect to give up some rights based on the contract that they signed, but in general they trust that the forgoing of their rights and desires is beneficial to not only themselves but the force as a whole. I know a lot of bros in my corner of the AF that keep asking “WTF is the point of this vaccine when we keep getting covid.”

Edited May 26, 2022 by Boomer6

[HossHarris]

1 hour ago, Boomer6 said:

….and that if I was exposed to anthrax I would be protected….

IIRC, the anthrax vaccine was never really tested against inhalation nor “weaponized” anthrax…. It was developed to counter skin infections in sheep farmers/shearers. So there may be a big question mark over your “protection”

But that was a long time ago, and those brain cells have been abused. 

[FLEA]

On 5/26/2022 at 2:11 PM, HossHarris said:

IIRC, the anthrax vaccine was never really tested against inhalation nor “weaponized” anthrax…. It was developed to counter skin infections in sheep farmers/shearers. So there may be a big question mark over your “protection”

But that was a long time ago, and those brain cells have been abused. 

Anthrax is also impossible to weaponize. It's a myth of the intel community that it's a useful bio weapon, a myth that unfortunately won't die. 

[tac airlifter]

1 hour ago, FLEA said:

Anthrax is also impossible to weaponize. It's a myth of the intel community that it's a useful bio weapon, a myth that unfortunately won't die. 

Ken Alibek, a doctor involved in the Soviet bio-war program, would disagree with you. Here’s a link to his book.  I also attended a lecture where he addressed this exact question.  I’ll grant the term “weaponized” is in this context emotionally charged and ill-defined verbiage for biological agents.  It’s unfair to characterize the utility of anthrax in weaponeering as a myth until someone actually shoots their shot and post-op analysis determines viability.  

Frankly that concept applies to all threats which lack extensive real-world observation: War gaming is restricted by assumptions which limit any certainty accompanying associated conclusions.

[FLEA]

42 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

Ken Alibek, a doctor involved in the Soviet bio-war program, would disagree with you. Here’s a link to his book.  I also attended a lecture where he addressed this exact question.  I’ll grant the term “weaponized” is in this context emotionally charged and ill-defined verbiage for biological agents.  It’s unfair to characterize the utility of anthrax in weaponeering as a myth until someone actually shoots their shot and post-op analysis determines viability.  

Frankly that concept applies to all threats which lack extensive real-world observation: War gaming is restricted by assumptions which limit any certainty accompanying associated conclusions.

Sure if it sells books. But the biggest proof of it's impossibility is that the foremost expert on military applications of anthrax in the world, the guy the DoD contracted to make the vaccine, failed miserably to weaponize it himself. 

[FLEA]

2 minutes ago, FLEA said:

According to the FBI: saving the anthrax vaccine program.
"The anthrax vaccine program to which [Dr. Ivins] had devoted his entire career of more than 20 years was failing. [...] Following the anthrax attacks, however, his program was suddenly rejuvenated"^[1] [and] "a possible motive was his concern about the end of the vaccination program[...], and one theory is that by launching these attacks, he creates a situation, a scenario, where people all of a sudden realize the need to have this vaccine."^[2]

The irony of why we have a mandatory anthrax vaccine in the military now.....

Edited May 28, 2022 by FLEA

[DirkDiggler]

If someone can provide a link to where the DoD is mandating the anthrax vaccine to combat Monkeypox I’d love to read it.

https://www.science.org/content/article/anthrax-genome-reveals-secrets-about-soviet-bioweapons-accident
 

I’m sure that the official Soviet explanation that the deaths were caused by contaminated meat is totally on the level.  I mean, they were completely transparent with Chernobyl right?

[FLEA]

6 hours ago, DirkDiggler said:

If someone can provide a link to where the DoD is mandating the anthrax vaccine to combat Monkeypox I’d love to read it.

https://www.science.org/content/article/anthrax-genome-reveals-secrets-about-soviet-bioweapons-accident
 

I’m sure that the official Soviet explanation that the deaths were caused by contaminated meat is totally on the level.  I mean, they were completely transparent with Chernobyl right?

Noone is saying that. Was just a side bar that more appropriately discusses the DoD paranoia with disease and biological warfare; a paranoia that is appropriate given the majority of casualties in warfare up until the last 100 years have been from disease. However, that paranoia is often not rational, resource consuming, and sometimes works to undermine trust in DoD leadership. 

The Soviet releases are commonly cited as a reason anthrax doesn't make a great weapon. It was 1.) Wildly underwhelming effects for how many spores were released. 2.) Proved that handling anthrax to weaponize it was higher risk than actually being attacked by it. 3.) Treatable after exposure meaning once identified, casualties can quickly be further mitigated. 4.) Not contagious amongst human beings. 5.) Dispersal removes meaningful concentrations to ensure casualty. 

This was one of the largest state funded bio weapons research programs in history and the leaked strains we know of havent proven to be meaningfully dangerous to staged forces. 

 

[arg]

I'm going to take a wild guess and say a lot of folks on here are too young to remember these guys.

[gearhog]

Told ya two months ago.

Get ready to be bent over.

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/07/23/who-declares-spreading-monkeypox-outbreak-a-global-health-emergency.html

[nsplayr]

 

Best typo in the history of Twitter 🤣

[gearhog]

These three states. At. The. Same. Time.

Fuckery is afoot.

Watch your ass. 
 
 

 

[Lord Ratner]

2 hours ago, torqued said:

These three states. At. The. Same. Time.

Fuckery is afoot.

Watch your ass. 
 
 

 

Well it's a disease primarily spread through gay sex, so those three states and the associated metros will cover many/most of the hot spots. Throw Miami in there for the full set.

 

It is curious that during the covid emergency, dating was just one of the many normal human activities that was strongly discouraged by the government, but not protesting... And during this emergency it seems like no one is willing to discourage anonymous gay sex, which is the primary vector of spread...

 

It's almost like public health is just another institution that's become subordinate to progressive social ideology.

[di1630]

The article says 98% of cases are admitted dude on dude contact.

[Biff_T]

No butt stuff seems to be the cure.  

I'm a f-ing scientist.  Now give me my vaccine money!

[tbro96]

1 minute ago, heloboy said:

No butt stuff seems to be the cure.  

I'm a f-ing scientist.  Now give me my vaccine money!

What about straight butt-stuff?

[Guardian]

What about straight butt-stuff?

Inquiring minds want to know!

[Biff_T]

8 minutes ago, Guardian said:

Inquiring minds want to know!

For the sake of equality, all butt stuff will be banned until further notice.  

[GrndPndr]

This is a perfect example of drama driving the news.  In Virginia, we must have at least 1,500 cases of this thing, out of seven million - that's really scary!  Okay, not so much, butt you get the idea.

[Sim]

[pawnman]

6 hours ago, heloboy said:

For the sake of equality, all butt stuff will be banned until further notice.  

What if I wear a mask on my butt?

[Biff_T]

1 minute ago, pawnman said:

What if I wear a mask on my butt?

At the moment there is no need to mask your butt.  However, this may change in the near future.  

Unitl further notice.  The CDC recommends wearing a butt plug and maintaining at least six inches of social distancing when engaging in butt love.  

[Biff_T]

17 hours ago, torqued said:

 

Watch your ass. 
 
 

 

Literally 

[RASH]

What if I wear a mask on my butt?

As long as it’s not a man date…


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