Air Force is hiring for civilian T-6 IPs

[Arkbird]

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by Arkbird

[LookieRookie]

they are for flying billets at Laughlin

[Arkbird]

1 hour ago, LookieRookie said:

they are for flying billets at Laughlin

Then it looks like the info I got was wrong. Interesting. 

[LiquidSky]

Actual flightline not sim? What's the pay, what's the contract length, and how long is the spin up time? Seeing how low the requirements are if the answers to those 3 questions are right I can see this being a highly desirable alternative path to the regionals than typical civilian CFI life.

Edit: Missed the left side. Guessing 2-3 year contract, 1 year spin up. 

 

Edited June 7, 2022 by LiquidSky

[LookieRookie]

56 minutes ago, LiquidSky said:

Actual flightline not sim? What's the pay, what's the contract length, and how long is the spin up time? Seeing how low the requirements are if the answers to those 3 questions are right I can see this being a highly desirable alternative path to the regionals than typical civilian CFI life.

Edit: Missed the left side. Guessing 2-3 year contract, 1 year spin up. 

 

yes per the 19 af/cc commander these are flying billets

 

gs9 target 13.

 

 they will attend some type of primary then pit. 5-6 year contract 

 

 

 

 

[Magnum]

Why stop there. Why not just contract Embry Riddle to instruct all UPT?  Or Draken and Top Aces to man our Fighter Squadrons. This has to be a joke, right?

[jazzdude]

yes per the 19 af/cc commander these are flying billets
 
gs9 target 13.
 
 they will attend some type of primary then pit. 5-6 year contract  

What's to keep them from punching early? Can GS employees incur a service commitment? Or is there a training bond?

Then again, it'd be a good way to build time for the airlines instead of CFIing in a Cessna 172

[dream big]

9 minutes ago, Magnum said:

Why stop there. Why not just contract Embry Riddle to instruct all UPT?  Or Draken and Top Aces to man our Fighter Squadrons. This has to be a joke, right?

My thoughts exactly, your civilian sim IPs are Vietnam vets who have cut their teeth in military aviation; not off the street civilian pilots who have no clue about military aviation.  I’m all for innovation but nothing yells giving up more than this. 

[JBueno]

14 minutes ago, dream big said:

My thoughts exactly, your civilian sim IPs are Vietnam vets who have cut their teeth in military aviation; not off the street civilian pilots who have no clue about military aviation.  I’m all for innovation but nothing yells giving up more than this. 

Who's going to teach anyone a fix-to-fix?!

This isn't really surprising. The DoD contracts everything to civilians.

Edited June 7, 2022 by JBueno

[Swizzle]

And so it begins...wonder if the old way/system is imploding? It's adaptation anyway and capitulating to manning reality probably.

Will this new way work? Keep UPT manning healthy, in turn line SQs healthy too by not being "tapped"? Are 'Peter' AND 'Paul' out of schlitz!?

There had to be some interesting conversations to get to this point. And even more interesting conversations onwards.

[Guardian]

Who's going to teach anyone a fix-to-fix?!

Gasp. The forbidden maneuver.

Don’t you know that F2F’es are not legal anymore?

[JBueno]

Uh, yeah . . . sure do. Just poking the idea that if we don't do it the way we've always done it, it can't be done. 

[nunya]

Hang on to your hats.  Civilian CFIIs in T-38s, er, T-7s, are next.  Y'all just thought a heavy guy teaching 38s would signal the end of the world.  😆

[1:1:1]

The best part is that these civilians will be the ones flying daily while the line officers bear the burden of all the paperwork required to run a squadron. If contracting schedulers didn't fix the problem I guess we'll just contract all of ops.

[Duck]

GS-9s? Good luck.


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[SocialD]

Ha, I don't even meet the minimum qualifications...I guess I should have spent more time working at that GPA. 

 

 

[nunya]

1 hour ago, Duck said:

GS-9s? Good luck.

They’re targeting ink-still-wet CFIs.   They’re competing with CFI and low end charter gigs.  I think they’ll get takers as word spreads around ERAU, UND, MGA, AU, etc.  

[brabus]

Are they going to send these guys through full UPT, followed by full PIT? If so, they’re no different than FAIPs, so maybe this is OK. But my cynicism says the AF won’t do that and they’ll get some corner-cutting training and be a “half-FAIP,” making this one of the dumbest ideas I’ve seen. 

[Duck]

Are they going to send these guys through full UPT, followed by full PIT? If so, they’re no different than FAIPs, so maybe this is OK. But my cynicism says the AF won’t do that and they’ll get some corner-cutting training and be a “half-FAIP,” making this one of the dumbest ideas I’ve seen. 

My guess is just some sort of extended PIT…


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[LiquidSky]

1 hour ago, nunya said:

They’re targeting ink-still-wet CFIs.   They’re competing with CFI and low end charter gigs.  I think they’ll get takers as word spreads around ERAU, UND, MGA, AU, etc.  

Depends on how easy it is to quit I'd think. In the current environment if airlines are your goal 1000-1500 hours over 4-5 years will put you behind your peers. Even if it's a T6 vs a 172.

Maybe a good deal if airlines aren't your end game though, can't get a class 1 med, etc.

[disgruntledemployee]

Its the best they can think of.  And it could work.  Retention plans (if there is even a plan)... ain't working.  Cut they syllabus even more... someone probably got shot saying that out loud.  Hire old dudes... we'll pollute all those young minds, plus old guys make problems for mgmt with no filter, outspoken, opinionated words on how it should be done.  And we got better paying jobs--small pool.

Introduce the young pup CFI.  Maybe they thought of mil flying, but didn't or couldn't.  Easily molded and controlled.  They have no prior bias against UPT ops like FAIPs or white jet assignment peeps.  This fills a need for basic flight instruction.  They probably make better pay than standard flight school stuff, plus the fly a more advanced plane and its turbine time.  And after doing this gig and flying with a few ANG/Res peeps, they might have an inside track to rush a unit.  And since they're civilians, no rank to get in the way and they can be a buddy and not an adversary.  No "sir" in the cockpit. Hey John, lets head up to the area and see how that stall work is coming along.  OK Sam.  Want to join us for 9 holes this evening?

[Lord Ratner]

11 hours ago, dream big said:

I’m all for innovation but nothing yells giving up more than this. 

What did you expect from the same leadership caste that ran the service for the past 20 years?

 

They were never good at leading or managing, they just relied on the patriotism of youth and the comfort-seeking of age (amplified by an uncertain economic environment) to solve their manning issues.

 

Now the patriotism is diminishing in the next generation and the older pilots have realized that making 2-3x the pay for 16 days of easy work a month is worth the fear of change... So they are scrambling.

 

Add on the insult that the O6-O10s had to eat a million shit sandwiches, leave their families behind, and repeatedly fight force reductions over their careers, but now they have to convince/beg/bribe a bunch of Millennials and Gen-Z to stay. Good luck.

[jazzdude]

Depends on how easy it is to quit I'd think. In the current environment if airlines are your goal 1000-1500 hours over 4-5 years will put you behind your peers. Even if it's a T6 vs a 172.
Maybe a good deal if airlines aren't your end game though, can't get a class 1 med, etc.

But that turbine PIC time!

Though it'll probably attract CFIs who might not be able to or want to live off essentially minimum wage while time building.

I wonder if going through the AF T-6 CFI course counts as military trained per FAA, thereby reducing the ATP min to 750 hours, which is easily doable with 1 year of training and under two years flying the line. Throw in some civilian flying on off days and you get there even faster.

[hockeydork]

16 hours ago, Magnum said:

Why stop there. Why not just contract Embry Riddle to instruct all UPT?  Or Draken and Top Aces to man our Fighter Squadrons. This has to be a joke, right?

So I'd like a serious answer on this. I understand the hate toward the idea of it but hear me out.

 

As someone who is "qualified" (Aero/mech engineering, Master's, hockey, 600 hour CFI, 8 years building nuclear subs) but who may have trouble getting a guard slot flying fighters my heart leaped out my chest reading this post and I know I will not be the only one.  To get to fly something like the T-6 that can go upside down with the Air Force even if not in the Air Force is a big friggin deal to me and I know I will not be the only one. Can I have a realistic answer as to if this is a good path or not, or will I get shit on as a civilian contractor? Also any idea on what would happen if you can get a guard slot after you accept or a half way through? 

Edited June 7, 2022 by hockeydork

[Bigred]

Just now, hockeydork said:

So I'd like a serious answer on this. I understand the hate toward the idea of it but hear me out.

 

As someone who is "qualified" (Aero/mech engineering, Master's, hockey, 600 hour CFI, 8 years building nuclear subs) but who may have trouble getting a guard slot flying fighters my heart leaped out my chest reading this post and I know I will not be the only one.  To get to fly something like the T-6 that can go upside down with the Air Force even if not in the Air Force is a big friggin deal to me and I know I will not be the only one. Can I have a realistic answer as to if this is a good path or not, or will I get shit on as a civilian contractor? Also any idea on what would happen deal if you can get a guard slot after you accept or a half way through? 

Can't speak to the guard slot, but if you wanna fly, and this is a chance, take the opportunity! F*ck what people think of contractors flying and take advantage of the opportunity.