Today in hypocrisy...

[LiquidSky]

8 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

If he did what WHO is saying.  I think the two situations are VERY different but would like the law to apply equally.

On the Trump side there are a few complicating factors that are not adding up at first look.

1.  His initial response is "these were declassified documents"  As we all know, POTUS is the ultimate declassification authority.  While the intel apparatus prefers those documents be reviewed, there is no requirement.  It will be interesting to see if any process was followed or is this just an excuse.

2.  The FBI knew all of this stuff was there and there were other mechanisms to get the documents.  Also, they left the information there for two months after the last visit.  If this was so sensitive why did they wait? The timing is VERY specious and has the appearance of the DOJ being weaponized just before the mid-terms.

3.  It has been reported that Obama took 30 MILLION documents with him when he left.  The national archives has put out a statement saying there is no classified in those documents.  Do you honestly believe they reviewed all 30 million documents.

With regard to Hillary Clinton that is a VERY different situation.

1.  She was not POTUS, she had no declassification authority and no legal justification to purposely mishandle very classified material.

2.  They found SCI not in a locked closet but on her freaking private server.  As you know, that was a deliberate act...I say again, A DELIBERATE ACT.  Someone had to copy/print/USB stick that info from a system that did not touch her private server and purposely load it onto an unclassified system.

3.  She purposely destroyed 33,000 emails.

How can they prosecute Trump with a straight face after Comey changed the language on the Hillary report and let her off the hook.  Do you not see that as complete double standard of justice? 

1. 

 

Had he done this while President there might be an argument to be woven. Better if there was an official memorandum stating documents X, Y, and Z are declassified.

But with the current situation if the documents are sitting in a safe, still marked classified (rather than appropriately had the markings redacted and marked unclass), and they're not part of the public record (freely accessible via normal means such as a foia request) not a chance in the eyes of the law they were declassified. 

2. Did they? Nothing has stated the timeline yet between learning and acting. Unfortunately legal mechanism here turn quite slowly, especially when you consider how squeaky clean a warrant against a former president needs to be due to optics. 

As for weaponized you do realize the FBI is lead by a trump appointee right?

3. The national archives still manages those records. The location of those records was moved for a specific reason. See the national archives statement here:

https://www.archives.gov/press/press-releases/2022/nr22-001

 

"The National Archives and Records Administration (NARA) assumed exclusive legal and physical custody of Obama Presidential records when President Barack Obama left office in 2017, in accordance with the Presidential Records Act (PRA). NARA moved approximately 30 million pages of unclassified records to a NARA facility in the Chicago area where they are maintained exclusively by NARA. Additionally, NARA maintains the classified Obama Presidential records in a NARA facility in the Washington, DC, area. As required by the PRA, former President Obama has no control over where and how NARA stores the Presidential records of his Administration. "

The rest of the whataboutism I'll drop because the entire purpose is misdirection. Would it be nice if everyone was held equally under the law? Yes. Is it too late to start just because we didn't in the past? No. If it was you'd never get any progress because what about in 1700 when I could burn witches? It's not fair I'd get jailed for that now. Someone else did it! 

[brabus]

@Negatory When’s the last time a federal agency raided a previous president’s home? And would you please answer CH’s last question.

Look, I’m not defending anybody here, but holy fuck, we just watched something unprecedented in our country’s history go down that has, until now, been a staple of banana republics and communist regimes. Meanwhile the plethora of left organizations and figures who have been glossed over/swept under the rug is astounding. Here’s the major problem: there is no single standard, and when that doesn’t exist, you are looking at weaponization of the government along a party line. That’s the shit that happens in China, Russia, NK, etc. - not the United States of America. 

Lock up Trump? OK sure, if he’s convicted of something that warrants it by law. But no fucking way if you also don’t go grab the Clintons, Biden, 90% of congress, all of Epstein’s cohorts, probably tens of thousand three letter agency bureaucrats, etc.

Regardless of personal political beliefs, stop accepting a pass for one party’s peeps while cheering on witch hunts vs. the opposite party. If you’re not on board with that, then kindly fuck off out of this country. I think you probably agree with that statement - but your words/approach communicate otherwise. 

Edited August 12, 2022 by brabus

[LiquidSky]

1 hour ago, brabus said:

When’s the last time a federal agency raided a previous president’s home? And would you please answer CH’s last question.

Look, I’m not defending anybody here, but holy , we just watched something unprecedented in our country’s history go down that has, until now, been a staple of banana republics and communist regimes. Meanwhile the plethora of left organizations and figures who have been glossed over/swept under the rug is astounding. Here’s the major problem: there is no single standard, and when that doesn’t exist, you are looking at weaponization of the government along a party line. That’s the shit that happens in China, Russia, NK, etc. - not the United States of America. 

Lock up Trump? OK sure, if he’s convicted of something that warrants it by law. But no ing way if you also don’t go grab the Clintons, Biden, 90% of congress, all of Epstein’s cohorts, probably tens of thousand three letter agency bureaucrats, etc.

Regardless of personal political beliefs, stop accepting a pass for one party’s peeps while cheering on witch hunts vs. the opposite party. If you’re not on board with that, then kindly off out of this country. I think you probably agree with that statement - but your words/approach communicate otherwise. 

And now the strawman argument comes out. 

You do realize South Korea, Iceland, Taiwan, and France have also tried and found former (or current) leaders guilty. That's not even looking at parliaments, etc. Just heads of state. 

I'd argue it's situational. Yes it's a banana republic thing to use your power to stay in power. However, it's also a sign of a progressive nation that it can hold current or former leaders accountable through a fair process.

In this case if you think an FBI led by a republican (trump) appointee asked for and executed a warrant and authorized by a moderate doj head (who I'll note was recommended by Republicans as center enough to fill a Supreme Court justice slot not 6 years ago, so he probably isn't a magical boogie man) is trying to tighten the reigns on power akin to a banana Republic...

Bless your heart.

Edited August 12, 2022 by LiquidSky
Can't spell 🍌

[Blue]

This was kind of a good thread until it got drug down the usual politics path.  Maybe the last page or so could be moved to the "Next President Is" thread?

Also, for all the noise about the FBI's Florida Vacation at Mar-a-Lago, as far as I know, there hasn't been anything official, right?  Some statements from the AG, and the usual "reports from unnamed sources familiar with the investigation."

Happy to be corrected, but seems a bit premature to draw any conclusions..............

 

 

Edited August 12, 2022 by Blue

[ClearedHot]

Just now, LiquidSky said:

And now the strawman argument comes out. 

You do realize South Korea, Iceland, Taiwan, and France have also tried and found former (or current) leaders guilty. That's not even looking at parliaments, etc. Just heads of state. 

I'd argue it's situational. Yes it's a banana republic thing to use your power to stay in power. However, it's also a sign of a progressive nation that it can hold current or former leaders accountable through a fair process.

In this case if you think an FBI led by a republican (trump) appointee asked for and executed a warrant and authorized by a moderate doj head (who I'll note was recommended by Republicans as center enough to fill a Supreme Court justice slot not 6 years ago, so he probably isn't a magical boogie man) is trying to tighten the reigns on power akin to a banna Republic...

Bless your heart.

Dear god...he not even acknowledge Hillary Clinton or what she did and how she got away with the same thing they are accusing Trump of doing. 

For the record, if Trump broke the law I have ZERO issue with him being prosecuted and held accountable. 

Makes ZERO difference who appointed the FBI director...ZERO.  I do not trust the FBI.  From FISA warrants to insurance policies to leaked indictments...there exists in those halls a rot.  I don't think the entire organization is corrupt but I simply don't trust them.  The warrant is one thing, but the government can write whatever they want on that warrant.  I certainly hope it was 'squeaky clean", but I prefer to wait for the affidavit and the facts.

[busdriver]

43 minutes ago, Negatory said:

there’s a process for it, you don’t just get to say “I DECLARE UNCLASSIFIED” like Michael Scott.

That will be the argument from the bureaucrats.  The hick-up will be POTUS' plenary powers with respect to classification.

The bureaucrats will have to argue that their process, whose authority is derived from POTUS, can also limit POTUS authority.

[Sua Sponte]

Here’s the warrant.
 

https://www.politico.com/f/?id=00000182-9397-d085-abb6-bb97a6f90000

Edited August 12, 2022 by Sua Sponte

[Prozac]

1 hour ago, brabus said:

When’s the last time a federal agency raided a previous president’s home? And would you please answer CH’s last question.

Look, I’m not defending anybody here, but holy fuck, we just watched something unprecedented in our country’s history go down that has, until now, been a staple of banana republics and communist regimes.

When’s the last time a president left office literally carrying boxes of classified out of the Oval Office? For that matter, when was the last time a sitting president fomented a riot/insurrection at the Capitol. When was the last time a sitting president threw his Vice to wolves who literally wanted him hanged? When was the last time a former president took the fifth (more than 400 times) in a deposition? (Oh yeah, since this is the hypocrisy thread remember when DJT said: “The mob takes the fifth.” And: “If you’re innocent, why are you taking the fifth?”?) Unprecedented you say? Trump is a master of unprecedented. If unprecedented things are happening to him, it’s because he set a whole bunch of unprecedented shit in motion with his own actions.
 

Why people continue to defend this scumbag is beyond me. Somehow, there are Americans who believe we will better off with more of his buffoonery. Do (royal) you really believe that this country will be better off with another Trump presidency? If I’m a republican, I throw the book at this jack hole and make him disappear forever. He’s made a joke out of the party. If the Republicans continue to double down on Trumpworld, they’ll forever be known as the party of Rudy Giuliani standing in front of a dildo store with cheap hair dye dripping down his face. Pathetic. Him acting like a spectacularly dumb criminal is a gift. It’s like God and Mike Pence (I assume they know each other) are handing the party a way out. TAKE IT! 

[brabus]

19 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Why people continue to defend this scumbag is beyond me.

I don’t think anybody is defending him; they’re pissed at the bigger picture this situation highlights: completely one-sided (politically) actions by the govt vs. conservatives while the same people simultaneously ignore/cover up /minimize egregious shit on the left/tied to the left. 
 

If you (royal) can’t objectively see how much the federal govt has turned against conservatives in the last 6 years (including indirectly by ignoring left bullshit while doing the opposite vs. right), you’re willfully ignorant/complacent. The American people cannot be OK with this, even democrats should be pissed. The govt should serve all people, not just the ones that identify with a certain party. 

[Prozac]

1 minute ago, brabus said:

I don’t think anybody is defending him; they’re pissed at the bigger picture this situation highlights: completely one-sided (politically) actions by the govt vs. conservatives while the same people simultaneously ignore/cover up /minimize egregious shit on the left/tied to the left. 
 

If you (royal) can’t objectively see how much the federal govt has turned against conservatives in the last 6 years (including indirectly by ignoring left bullshit while doing the opposite vs. right), you’re willfully ignorant/complacent. The American people cannot be OK with this, even democrats should be pissed. The govt should serve all people, not just the ones that identify with a certain party. 

That’s one way to look at it. Another way would be that the FBI literally handed an election (and by happenstance, the U.S. Supreme Court) to Republicans in 2016 when they released the results of their investigation of Hillary Clinton. Remember that one? Didn’t hear too many Rs decrying the politicization of the FBI then. Sometimes timing’s a bitch. BTW, the argument is that this is the FBI trying to influence the midterms, right? So when would the timing be better? During the run up to the next presidential election perhaps? 🤣

[LiquidSky]

26 minutes ago, brabus said:

I don’t think anybody is defending him; they’re pissed at the bigger picture this situation highlights: completely one-sided (politically) actions by the govt vs. conservatives while the same people simultaneously ignore/cover up /minimize egregious shit on the left/tied to the left. 
 

If you (royal) can’t objectively see how much the federal govt has turned against conservatives in the last 6 years (including indirectly by ignoring left bullshit while doing the opposite vs. right), you’re willfully ignorant/complacent. The American people cannot be OK with this, even democrats should be pissed. The govt should serve all people, not just the ones that identify with a certain party. 

I believe the old adage "If everywhere you go smells like shit, maybe it's time to check your shoes?" applies here. 

There's currently no evidence or verifiable study that republicans are disproportionately tried/prosecuted. There's plenty of evidence (enough to prosecute) that many Republicans have committed crimes. If evidence came to light for a Democrat I'd hope they're also tried. 

Here's a fun starting point of this "disproportionate" action if we want to continue  whataboutisms. 

Not 1,not 2,but 10 Benghazi hearings.

"Ten investigations were conducted into the 2012 Benghazi attack, six of these by Republican-controlled House committees." 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Investigation_into_the_2012_Benghazi_attack

 

On the other side of the other hand:

Republican Ralph Shortey, a former Oklahoma state senator, Drumpf's Oklahoma campaign chair to plead guilt to child sex trafficking

https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/trump-s-oklahoma-campaign-chair-plead-guilt-child-sex-trafficking-n822461?fbclid=IwAR142W77Q5Dan71BsxC_5uH8h1BBA4EGyqP_VMsrx7lSvoPX9Njjvt0oHK0

Republican Speaker of the House Dennis Hastert was indicted on federal charges of structuring bank withdrawals after prosecutors alleged Hastert had molested at least four boys as young as 14 and attempted to compensate his victims and subsequently conceal the transactions. Hastert eventually admitted that he sexually abused the boys whom he had coached decades earlier, and was sentenced to fifteen months in prison.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/18/us/dennis-hastert-released.html

Republican Tim Nolan, chairman of Donald Drumpf’s presidential campaign in Kentucky, pled guilty to child sex trafficking and on February 11, 2018 he was sentenced to serve 20 years in prison.

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/2018/05/03/former-judge-tim-nolan-could-sentenced-today-more-drama-could-get-way/577947002/

Republican state Senator Ralph Shortey was indicted on four counts of human trafficking and child pornography. In November 2017, he pleaded guilty to one count of child sex trafficking in exchange for the dropping of the other charges.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/11/20/former-oklahoma-state-senator-admits-to-child-sex-trafficking-while-in-office/

Republican Minnesota State Representative Jim Knoblach Drops Out Of Race After Daughter Says He Molested Her For More Than Ten Years 22 Sep 2018

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2018/09/22/lawmaker-quits-race-after-daughter-says-he-molested-her-more-than-decade/?utm_term=.8ac8527c7f43

Republican anti-abortion activist Howard Scott Heldreth is a convicted child rapist in Florida.

https://offender.fdle.state.fl.us/offender/sops/flyer.jsf?personId=28587

Republican County Commissioner David Swartz pleaded guilty to molesting two girls under the age of 11 and was sentenced to 8 years in prison.

https://www.lanternproject.org.uk/library/child-abuse-arrests-and-court-cases/child-abuse-arrests-trials-and-proceedings/ex-county-commissioner-admits-sexual-abuse-of-girl/

Republican judge Mark Pazuhanich pleaded no contest to fondling a 10-year old girl and was sentenced to 10 years probation.

https://www.poconorecord.com/article/20120426/NEWS90/204260334

Republican legislator Edison Misla Aldarondo was sentenced to 10 years in prison for raping his daughter between the ages of 9 and 17.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edison_Misla_Aldarondo

Republican Mayor Philip Giordano is serving a 37-year sentence in federal prison for sexually abusing 8- and 10-year old girls.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philip_Giordano

Republican campaign consultant Tom Shortridge was sentenced to three years probation for taking nude photographs of a 15-year old girl.

https://archive.easyreadernews.com/archives/news2001/0621/rb Shortridge.php

Republican Senator Strom Thurmond, a notable racist, had sex with a 15-year old black girl which produced a child.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strom_Thurmond

Republican pastor Mike Hintz, whom George W. Bush commended during the 2004 presidential campaign, surrendered to police after admitting to a sexual affair with a female juvenile.

Republican legislator Peter Dibble pleaded no contest to having an inappropriate relationship with a 13-year-old girl.

https://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/18/nyregion/embroiled-first-selectman-takes-leave.html

Republican Congressman Donald “Buz” Lukens was found guilty of having sex with a female minor and sentenced to one month in jail.

https://www.nytimes.com/1989/05/25/us/teen-ager-in-ohio-testifies-to-sex-with-a-congressman.html

Republican fundraiser Richard A. Delgaudio was found guilty of child porn charges and paying two teenage girls to pose for sexual photos.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archive/local/2003/04/24/gop-activist-admits-to-child-porn/5af2adf0-bec8-4a10-b061-014de679422a/?utm_term=.d7ebcbf4f92b

Republican activist Mark A. Grethen convicted on six counts of sex crimes involving children.

https://www.thenewblackmagazine.com/view.aspx?index=437

Republican activist Randal David Ankeney pleaded guilty to attempted sexual assault on a child.

https://www.westword.com/news/randy-ankeney-suit-that-could-free-thousands-of-prisoners-headed-to-state-supreme-court-6054115

Republican Congressman Dan Crane had sex with a female minor working as a congressional page.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dan_Crane

Republican activist and Christian Coalition leader Beverly Russell admitted to an incestuous relationship with his step daughter.

https://www.nytimes.com/1995/08/02/opinion/journal-beverly-russell-s-prayers.html

Republican congressman and anti-gay activist Robert Bauman was charged with having sex with a 16-year-old boy he picked up at a gay bar.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Bauman

Republican Committee Chairman Jeffrey Patti was arrested for distributing a video clip of a 5-year-old girl being raped.

https://www.njherald.com/article/20060510/ARTICLE/305109971

Republican activist Marty Glickman (a.k.a. “Republican Marty”), was taken into custody by Florida police on four counts of unlawful sexual activity with an underage girl and one count of delivering the drug LSD.

https://www.arktimes.com/TheHoglawyer/archives/2007/08/28/the-latest-republican-sex-scandals-plural---more-of-the-same

Republican legislative aide Howard L. Brooks was charged with molesting a 12-year old boy and possession of child pornography.

Republican Senate candidate John Hathaway was accused of having sex with his 12-year old baby sitter and withdrew his candidacy after the allegations were reported in the media.

https://www.nytimes.com/1996/06/06/us/politics-the-senate-maine-candidate-again-faces-1990-child-sex-accusation.html

Republican preacher Stephen White, who demanded a return to traditional values, was sentenced to jail after offering $20 to a 14-year-old boy for permission to perform oral sex on him.

https://www.thedp.com/article/2004/01/brother_stephen_convicted_of_soliciting_sex

Republican talk show host Jon Matthews pleaded guilty to exposing his genitals to an 11 year old girl.

https://www.houstonpress.com/news/jon-matthews-conservative-talk-show-host-and-sex-offender-pulled-from-kpfts-prison-show-6740755

Republican anti-gay activist Earl “Butch” Kimmerling was sentenced to 40 years in prison for molesting an 8-year old girl after he attempted to stop a gay couple from adopting her.

Republican Party leader Paul Ingram pleaded guilty to six counts of raping his daughters and served 14 years in federal prison.

https://culteducation.com/group/1255-false-memories/6514-man-in-notorious-sex-case-finishes-term.html

Republican election board official Kevin Coan was sentenced to two years probation for soliciting sex over the internet from a 14-year old girl.

https://www.semissourian.com/story/57773.html

Republican politician Andrew Buhr was charged with two counts of first degree sodomy with a 13-year old boy.

https://www.arktimes.com/TheHoglawyer/archives/2007/08/28/the-latest-republican-sex-scandals-plural---more-of-the-same

Republican politician Keith Westmoreland was arrested on seven felony counts of lewd and lascivious exhibition to girls under the age of 16 (i.e. exposing himself to children).

https://www.chattanoogan.com/2002/6/21/23202/Tennessee-Legislator-Commits-Suicide.aspx

Republican anti-abortion activist John Allen Burt was charged with sexual misconduct involving a 15-year old girl.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Burt_(anti-abortion_activist)

Republican County Councilman Keola Childs pleaded guilty to molesting a male child.

https://the.honoluluadvertiser.com/article/2007/Oct/08/ln/hawaii710080338.html

Republican activist John Butler was charged with criminal sexual assault on a teenage girl.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/il-court-of-appeals/1113050.html

Republican candidate Richard Gardner admitted to molesting his two daughters.

https://lasvegassun.com/news/2002/oct/14/assembly-candidate-gardner-ruled-ineligible-due-to/

Republican County Commissioner Merrill Robert Barter pleaded guilty to unlawful sexual contact and assault on a teenage boy.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2007/8/7/368012/-Republican-adulterer-accused-rapist-another-in-the-GOP-Hall-of-Shame

Republican City Councilman Fred C. Smeltzer, Jr. pleaded no contest to raping a 15 year-old girl and served 6-months in prison.

https://www.wgal.com/article/council-accepts-resignation-of-member-imprisoned-for-rape/6189408

Republican activist Parker J. Bena pleaded guilty to possession of child pornography on his home computer and was sentenced to 30 months in federal prison and fined $18,000.

https://www.salem-news.com/articles/october172007/repub_scandals_10_17_07.php

Republican parole board officer and former Colorado state representative, Larry Jack Schwarz, was fired after child pornography was found in his possession.

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2006/9/30/251895/-

Missouri House member faces expulsion after investigation finds he sexually, physically abused his children https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2021/04/20/rick-roeber-abuse-missouri-house/

Kansas House member Mark Samsel was arrested on charges of misdemeanor battery after getting into a physical altercation with a student while substitute teaching. Videos show Samsel focusing most of his attention on one male student. Samsel “put hands on the student” and allegedly kneed him in the crotch.

https://www.kansascity.com/news/politics-government/article251069219.html

Thread throughly derailed. 

Edited August 12, 2022 by LiquidSky
Fixed link

[Blue]

Wow.  Wall of text and a lot of links.

Very compelling.

[Sua Sponte]

6 minutes ago, Blue said:

Wow.  Wall of text and a lot of links.

Very compelling.

Yeah, he should’ve just written a paragraph or conjecture that he’s trying to pass along as peer reviewed fact and used memes.

[CaptainMorgan]

LiquidSky makes me miss PYB.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ClearedHot]

30 minutes ago, CaptainMorgan said:

LiquidSky makes me miss PYB.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The ignore function clears things right up.

[Standby]

I’m more concerned that LiquidSky only cited the child molesters and sex traffickers. Chill out Dexter. 

[arg]

4 hours ago, LiquidSky said:

 

 

Thread throughly derailed. 

Nice work, I'm sure a few democrats would love to hire you to work for their campaigns. I do have some questions.

What search engine did you use?

What did you type into the search?

Did you bypass any democrats that may have showed up in your search?

[Waingro]

8 hours ago, Negatory said:

The whataboutism is amazing. I, for one, find the thing most ironic in these discussions to be the title of this thread. Today, in hypocrisy, you defend someone’s actions just because they are a Republican.

Also, the President can not unilaterally declassify anything. Notable exceptions include nuclear data, waived data, and intelligence agent locations, among others. Oh, and there’s a process for it, you don’t just get to say “I DECLARE UNCLASSIFIED” like Michael Scott.

Is it that amazing though? These are the same guys who quibble in a debrief, or maybe they hold it down a little but definitely whip out the quibbling in the bar. "Sure, I went inside of MAR and took missile to the face, but we got a late dec, and #1 was all over the place, and the RTO didn't even acknowledge #3's shot. Total bullshit!" Those clowns exist in every squadron. The people who are quibbling about Hillary or Hunter Biden, or planted documents, when whole cartons of classified are on the loose? They're all the same person.

[Sim]

[Pooter]

12 minutes ago, Sim said:

Lol the mental gymnastics of trump apologists..

"we don't even know what they were looking for"

"okay so they were looking for classified but we don't know if they found any"

"okay well we know they found classified but he probably declassified it beforehand"

"okay so he didn't follow the process to declassify it but surely other administrations have done this too right"

"okay maybe we've never had another president do this before but it's probably not like important classified"

"okay maybe it's classified pertaining to nukes but probably not like anything actually dangerous like bombs and stuff"

Can't wait to see where the parade of quibbling and justifications lead in the coming weeks. It's been truly entertaining so far. 
 

Just here to remind everyone that standards should exist. And you should hold those standards above your political biases. Because If any of us were under investigation for anything remotely close to this or what Hillary did, we'd likely be in jail. Which is precisely where both of them should be. 

[dream big]

10 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Right after they check Hillary into her cell...

And Hunter Biden, while his useless father is impeached

[pawnman]

6 hours ago, Pooter said:

Lol the mental gymnastics of trump apologists..

"we don't even know what they were looking for"

"okay so they were looking for classified but we don't know if they found any"

"okay well we know they found classified but he probably declassified it beforehand"

"okay so he didn't follow the process to declassify it but surely other administrations have done this too right"

"okay maybe we've never had another president do this before but it's probably not like important classified"

"okay maybe it's classified pertaining to nukes but probably not like anything actually dangerous like bombs and stuff"

Can't wait to see where the parade of quibbling and justifications lead in the coming weeks. It's been truly entertaining so far. 
 

Just here to remind everyone that standards should exist. And you should hold those standards above your political biases. Because If any of us were under investigation for anything remotely close to this or what Hillary did, we'd likely be in jail. Which is precisely where both of them should be. 

It's more the ability to recognize a pattern of behavior from the media and DOJ. Who knows, maybe this is the one time they're actually accurate. But the record of reporting makes me reluctant to accept the reporting at face value. 

[brabus]

27 minutes ago, pawnman said:

It's more the ability to recognize a pattern of behavior from the media and DOJ

Shack. Several here keep going off on strawman tangents about trump apologists - when neither myself, nor several others here, are doing that. The pattern of behavior of gov agencies is horrifying and needs to be stopped. Lock all the names up mentioned in the thread above, I applaud it if convicted. But if they “get this one right,” it is not a win for our nation when they’ve bypassed so many previously due to political allegiance. There’s the problem - everyone focus on that and stop focusing on attacking single names on the opposite side of one’s political beliefs. Apply this logic across the board and our country will be so much better off. 

[kaputt]

This gem from Harris:

"And any so-called leader who engages in rhetoric that in any way suggests that law enforcement should be exposed to that kind of danger is irresponsible and results in dangerous activities. You know, our law enforcement. Professionals. And in this case, we're talking about our federal law enforcement agencies. They do very important work. And from the moment they walk out the door of their home, until they go back in, their families, pray for their safety and well-being. And I think it's just highly irresponsible of anyone who calls themselves a leader and certainly anyone who represents the United States of America to engage in rhetoric for the sake of some political objective that can result in harm to law enforcement officers and agents," Vice President Harris said.

—————-

Well apparently the left cares about law enforcement again. 
 

https://www.bizpacreview.com/2022/08/13/kamala-harris-offers-her-take-on-doj-after-raid-and-now-she-thinks-its-bad-to-doubt-law-enforcement-1272905/

This is the kind of bullshit that pisses me off. Shit on law enforcement for all of 2020 (and beyond), but as soon as federal agents are investigating something or someone that might be beneficial to your side, “They deserve our full support.”

And this has nothing to do with defending Trump or not defending Trump. It’s just an utter disgrace how stupid these people think we are when they go back and forth on crap like this. 
 

Tell me Kamala, where is your support for Border Patrol and CBP agents trying to protect a border you’re in charge of that you’ve completely ignored? Because I seem to remember you jumping to vilify agents just doing their job as “whipping migrants”.

What a sad time we live in. 

Edited August 13, 2022 by kaputt

[nsplayr]

3 hours ago, brabus said:

Several here keep going off on strawman tangents about trump apologists - when neither myself, nor several others here, are doing that. 

Fair enough, no one on here yet is full-throated defending the fact that Trump had TS/SCI at mar a lago, many GOP folks are however. My critiques of that are to the Royal “we” in that case, no one here specifically unless otherwise noted.

3 hours ago, brabus said:

But if they “get this one right,” it is not a win for our nation when they’ve bypassed so many previously due to political allegiance.

It should be though! If you want fairness, if you want the law followed, you should apply it going forward. You can’t time-machine yourself back and handle past cases better, but you can handle present cases appropriately. You also shouldn’t wish for “makeup” calls like you see in sports sometimes.

Refs: “Oh shit we missed that holding call bad…let’s do offensive pass interference on the next play/series to even things out.”

Or conversely, “Well we’re just not calling pass interference this game, good luck!”

NO! Handle things properly the first time and consistently (ideally), but second-best to that just press forward from today doing the right thing.

If you want to be mad about Hillary/Bill/Obama/Joe & Hunter/Nancy/AOC great, I get it. I’m still mad at GWB about fucking up the Iraq War decision so badly but what are ya gonna do today in 2022?

Those past grievances are not the discussion right now and even if your words don’t literally say “what about XX…” whataboutism abounds and it’s not good to get those kind of brain worms.

What about the topic at hand? My view again is it seems pretty bad, but let’s let the facts present themselves more fully before rushing anyone off tot he gallows, and we should not be maligning the FBI or federal judges without clear evidence of wrongdoing.