Today in hypocrisy...

[GrndPndr]

I wonder how many here think that Trump actually knew about these documents, and their content?  He is a great delegator, and likely someone on his staff just thought they were doing the appropriate thing (whatever that was).  I just cannot picture Trump handling these things, and putting them under his coat on the way out the door, or saying, "Let's keep those extremely sensitive documents in the closet down in Florida."

Are some giving him too much credit for his role in this?  And yes, it sounds like this was his responsibility, but some of us know how custodial security works.

So much more to this story. 

 

[pawnman]

4 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Fair enough, no one on here yet is full-throated defending the fact that Trump had TS/SCI at mar a lago, many GOP folks are however. My critiques of that are to the Royal “we” in that case, no one here specifically unless otherwise noted.

It should be though! If you want fairness, if you want the law followed, you should apply it going forward. You can’t time-machine yourself back and handle past cases better, but you can handle present cases appropriately. You also shouldn’t wish for “makeup” calls like you see in sports sometimes.

Refs: “Oh shit we missed that holding call bad…let’s do offensive pass interference on the next play/series to even things out.”

Or conversely, “Well we’re just not calling pass interference this game, good luck!”

NO! Handle things properly the first time and consistently (ideally), but second-best to that just press forward from today doing the right thing.

If you want to be mad about Hillary/Bill/Obama/Joe & Hunter/Nancy/AOC great, I get it. I’m still mad at GWB about fucking up the Iraq War decision so badly but what are ya gonna do today in 2022?

Those past grievances are not the discussion right now and even if your words don’t literally say “what about XX…” whataboutism abounds and it’s not good to get those kind of brain worms.

What about the topic at hand? My view again is it seems pretty bad, but let’s let the facts present themselves more fully before rushing anyone off tot he gallows, and we should not be maligning the FBI or federal judges without clear evidence of wrongdoing.

I'll believe it when I see the FBI and media start rolling up some democrats. I fully believe that Biden is weaponizing federal law enforcement against political opponents, same way Obama did with the IRS a decade ago. And it's real hard to take Dem leadership seriously when they talk about law and order after they used "but her emails" as a taunt for the last 6 years.

Maybe Trump just needs to do the same thing. "But his documents!"

[arg]

7 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Fair enough, no one on here yet is full-throated defending the fact that Trump had TS/SCI at mar a lago, many GOP folks are however. My critiques of that are to the Royal “we” in that case, no one here specifically unless otherwise noted.

 

Are we sure that's a fact? News is saying TS but they're not always right.

[ClearedHot]

8 hours ago, nsplayr said:

It should be though! If you want fairness, if you want the law followed, you should apply it going forward. You can’t time-machine yourself back and handle past cases better, but you can handle present cases appropriately. You also shouldn’t wish for “makeup” calls like you see in sports sometimes.

Refs: “Oh shit we missed that holding call bad…let’s do offensive pass interference on the next play/series to even things out.”

Or conversely, “Well we’re just not calling pass interference this game, good luck!”

NO! Handle things properly the first time and consistently (ideally), but second-best to that just press forward from today doing the right thing.

If you want to be mad about Hillary/Bill/Obama/Joe & Hunter/Nancy/AOC great, I get it. I’m still mad at GWB about fucking up the Iraq War decision so badly but what are ya gonna do today in 2022?

Those past grievances are not the discussion right now and even if your words don’t literally say “what about XX…” whataboutism abounds and it’s not good to get those kind of brain worms.

No...Just NO!

You can hold them accountable for past actions and make CHANGE in the organization.  You don't just hope they do better next time.  GWB is not in control but DOJ and many of the same clowns at the FBI are in their same positions or HIGHER!

It is not brainworms or whataboutism, its about accountability and FIXING the Fing problem.

 

8 hours ago, nsplayr said:

What about the topic at hand? My view again is it seems pretty bad, but let’s let the facts present themselves more fully before rushing anyone off tot he gallows, and we should not be maligning the FBI or federal judges without clear evidence of wrongdoing.

Maligning the FBI...you don't seem to grasp that after FBI agents LIED to the FISA Court and changed the investigation language on Hillary's handling of classified, people don't trust them.  There are SERIOUS issues with the organization.  Now do I think they were planting evidence, I seriously doubt that but I say again, the FBI LIED on multiple issues with regard to Trump!  Doesn't that bother you?  You can't see how that might cast a little doubt?

[Boomer6]

The libs don’t care what the FBI does if it helps their party. It’s a shame, I’d hoped military members who’ve lamented the same kind of politics play out in their squadrons etc. would understand accountability regardless of what “side” they’re on. Trumpers aren’t any different mind you. The divide continues to grow at a rapid pace because of petty ppl on both sides happy to ignore the rules when it suits their ideology. 

[pawnman]

Today in green energy...

https://energynewsbeat.co/scotland-cut-down-14-million-trees-to-make-way-for-wind-turbines/

[nsplayr]

2 hours ago, arg said:

Are we sure that's a fact? News is saying TS but they're not always right.

Yes. Page 6 shows “2A - various classified TS/SCI documents” from the FBI receipt of property.

There are also several other line items for regular ole TS, Secret, and Confidential documents.

https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=22131380-trump-warrant-uns

Edited August 14, 2022 by nsplayr

[arg]

21 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

Yes. Page 6 shows “2A - various classified TS/SCI documents” from the FBI receipt of property.

There are also several other line items for regular ole TS, Secret, and Confidential documents.

https://apps.npr.org/documents/document.html?id=22131380-trump-warrant-uns

Cool, but with the FBIs track record I'll hang out and wait for further conformation.

[Sim]

 

I'm sure binder of photos and clemency of Roger Stone will assist this witch hunt. 

[nsplayr]

22 minutes ago, Sim said:

 

I'm sure binder of photos and clemency of Roger Stone will assist this witch hunt. 

The point of that one being seized I’m guessing is that it’s a presidential record, subject to retention by the national archives. It’s the law, although ok you’re not gonna exactly arrest someone the same way as you might for possessing the TS/SCI, but it’s still a law.

Same with the next line item…info re: the President of France…wonder what that was haha! Sacre bleu!

Edited August 14, 2022 by nsplayr

[nsplayr]

2 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

You can hold them accountable for past actions and make CHANGE in the organization.

 

Ok great, I am all for having fair and trustworthy federal law enforcement agencies. There are tons of liberals who look a the FBI very unfavorably for their Hillary investigation recently-ish and going as far back as Hoover and anti-commie stuff and terrible behavior during the civil rights era.

Hell, there are liberals who still want to put Bush on trial over Guantanamo and Abi Ghraib and some on both sides who want to do the same for Obama over drone strikes, especially the al-Awlaki strike. I don’t agree with doing any of that FWIW.

So let’s not treat people unfairly but let’s also enforce the law. Let’s handle this case with Trump and these classified documents the right way. The best time to start doing better is now and the best place to start doing better is here.

That all being said, I do not inherently distrust the FBI, I don’t agree there is some kind of long running or Biden admin-specific anti-conservative bias at the Bureau, and I don’t think we need to relitigate cases where no charges were brought in the first place. 

[Boomer6]

Let’s not bring up very similar situations that have occurred to democratic politicians that got a pass, because…reasons.

[nsplayr]

21 minutes ago, Boomer6 said:

Let’s not bring up very similar situations that have occurred to democratic politicians that got a pass, because…reasons.

I agree that Hillary and the server were bad! No charges were filed but…she lost the 2016 election in no small part due to that. Could have been handled better by the FBI all around.

Ok, so you believe retaining classified documents in non-approved ways is bad and should be punished IAW the law. Great, let’s do that with the case at hand right now with Trump.

Or you support Hillary having kinda been given a pass in terms of legal consequences, and therefore it’s only fair that Trump does too. I don’t agree, but that’s a logically consistent policy at least. Elites are above the law!

BUT, what I’m failing to comprehend is anger that Hillary wasn’t charged or jailed but the same folks believe either Trump did nothing wrong or should not be punished or that we should abolish the FBI 🙄. Not speaking to anyone specific here, but many GOP politicians are going down this trail and I wish they would stop jumping on grenades for Trump before the facts are known beyond that he had TS/SCI docs at Mar-a-Lago.

Hillary pretty much went away after she lost. She didn’t endorse in the 2020 primary until it was basically over, and speaking as a Democrat, no one in the party cares what she thinks or does or tweets at this point. Y’all can do that too!

Edited August 14, 2022 by nsplayr

[pawnman]

9 hours ago, nsplayr said:

I agree that Hillary and the server were bad! No charges were filed but…she lost the 2016 election in no small part due to that. Could have been handled better by the FBI all around.

Ok, so you believe retaining classified documents in non-approved ways is bad and should be punished IAW the law. Great, let’s do that with the case at hand right now with Trump.

Or you support Hillary having kinda been given a pass in terms of legal consequences, and therefore it’s only fair that Trump does too. I don’t agree, but that’s a logically consistent policy at least. Elites are above the law!

BUT, what I’m failing to comprehend is anger that Hillary wasn’t charged or jailed but the same folks believe either Trump did nothing wrong or should not be punished or that we should abolish the FBI 🙄. Not speaking to anyone specific here, but many GOP politicians are going down this trail and I wish they would stop jumping on grenades for Trump before the facts are known beyond that he had TS/SCI docs at Mar-a-Lago.

Hillary pretty much went away after she lost. She didn’t endorse in the 2020 primary until it was basically over, and speaking as a Democrat, no one in the party cares what she thinks or does or tweets at this point. Y’all can do that too!

So either charge Hillary now, or leave Trump alone.

The way they're going about this give a very strong perception that the FBI is being weaponized against Biden's political enemies. 

[ClearedHot]

11 hours ago, nsplayr said:

I agree that Hillary and the server were bad! No charges were filed but…she lost the 2016 election in no small part due to that. Could have been handled better by the FBI all around.

Ok, so you believe retaining classified documents in non-approved ways is bad and should be punished IAW the law. Great, let’s do that with the case at hand right now with Trump.

Or you support Hillary having kinda been given a pass in terms of legal consequences, and therefore it’s only fair that Trump does too. I don’t agree, but that’s a logically consistent policy at least. Elites are above the law!

BUT, what I’m failing to comprehend is anger that Hillary wasn’t charged or jailed but the same folks believe either Trump did nothing wrong or should not be punished or that we should abolish the FBI 🙄. Not speaking to anyone specific here, but many GOP politicians are going down this trail and I wish they would stop jumping on grenades for Trump before the facts are known beyond that he had TS/SCI docs at Mar-a-Lago.

Hillary pretty much went away after she lost. She didn’t endorse in the 2020 primary until it was basically over, and speaking as a Democrat, no one in the party cares what she thinks or does or tweets at this point. Y’all can do that too!

Ok so you say focus on the current..The GOP would like to hold Hillary accountable and you want GWB held accountable so it is a wash...focus on the current and move forward.  I respect that...so lets dig into what is going on with Trump and by your rule set lets dig into the laptop...right?  It is certainly current, implication that the sitting POTUS is compromised...10% for the big guy.  Deal?

[nsplayr]

1 hour ago, ClearedHot said:

Ok so you say focus on the current..The GOP would like to hold Hillary accountable and you want GWB held accountable so it is a wash...focus on the current and move forward.  I respect that...so lets dig into what is going on with Trump and by your rule set lets dig into the laptop...right?  It is certainly current, implication that the sitting POTUS is compromised...10% for the big guy.  Deal?

If the FBI wants to investigate Hunter Biden’s laptop go for it, you won’t see me calling for the the FBI to be defunded or staging armed protests outside of field offices or trying to break into one.

In fact the director of the FBI Chris Wray was appointed by Trump after he fired Comey, so I’m sure he doesn’t have some kind of overriding loyalty to Biden that’s preventing him from doing so.

And FWIW I don’t support going back and re-litigating stuff from years/decades ago (eg GWB, drone strikes, emails from the Obama admin, etc.) If no charges were filed at the time then we can’t endlessly live in the past and put everyone on trial forever, something I think conservatives would agree with re: past racism/slavery and some other cultural issues.

Handling the present correctly is always the best way to move forward. 

[Prozac]

Hillary WAS investigated by the FBI. You may not like it, but they decided not to charge her with a crime. Fishy? Yeah, probably. I think the reasoning was that a charge that close to the presidential election would undoubtedly be seen as a political move by the FBI. In the end, it lost her the election anyway. A better option would’ve probably been to wait until after the election. I think there is a very good chance we would’ve seen impeachment proceedings brought forward had Hillary won. But she didn’t. Her alleged crimes were investigated and she faded quietly away. Would re-litigating the episode have any consequential results for the country? I don’t know.

 

I do know DJT continues to be active in politics and badly wants to be president again. Investigating his alleged crimes is FAR more consequential for this country than trying to send a shriveled old lady who lost an election to jail. WRT to Hunter, there is an ongoing FBI investigation, yes? Forgive me if I missed it, but AFIK the details of that investigation remain unreleased to the public and no actual evidence has been released that tie the current president to any wrongdoing. I sincerely hope and expect the FBI to conduct a thorough investigation. If it turns out that the president is involved in illegal activities, I support appropriate consequences.

 

But it sure seems like a lot of people here have already convicted Joe Biden in their own heads. At the same time, they say raiding Mar-a-Lago was inappropriate when we KNOW there was classified material inappropriately stored there. It doesn’t matter if Trump himself walked out with the material or even knew about it (although I find it rather unbelievable that he didn’t). A crime was most definitely committed and to argue that is shouldn’t even be investigated is grade-A, 100% absurd and HIGHLY hypocritical (unless you believe the FBI planted evidence, in which case: look out for those black helos, chemtrails, and gay frogs guys, amirite?).

 

Both parties need to do a better job of presenting us with candidates with vision, integrity, intelligence, common sense, and a litany of other desirable attributes. I’ve been deeply dissatisfied with candidates of all stripes as of late. But the Republican party really put up a softball when they nominated Trump & then basically accepted him as their deity. I’m sorry, but you can’t complain about Bill’s philandering, Hillary’s lawlessness, and Joe’s nepotism, and in the same breath express support for DJT who is all of those things on an order of magnitude worse. High profile politicians of all stripes have played by altered rules for a long time (news flash: Nancy Pelosi and Democratic lawmakers aren’t the only ones who’ve become stupid rich while in office) and I agree it’s wrong, but DJT has stuck his head so far out of the foxhole that nobody should be surprised he’s taking fire. 

[pawnman]

40 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Hillary WAS investigated by the FBI. You may not like it, but they decided not to charge her with a crime. Fishy? Yeah, probably. I think the reasoning was that a charge that close to the presidential election would undoubtedly be seen as a political move by the FBI. In the end, it lost her the election anyway. A better option would’ve probably been to wait until after the election. I think there is a very good chance we would’ve seen impeachment proceedings brought forward had Hillary won. But she didn’t. Her alleged crimes were investigated and she faded quietly away. Would re-litigating the episode have any consequential results for the country? I don’t know.

 

I do know DJT continues to be active in politics and badly wants to be president again. Investigating his alleged crimes is FAR more consequential for this country than trying to send a shriveled old lady who lost an election to jail. WRT to Hunter, there is an ongoing FBI investigation, yes? Forgive me if I missed it, but AFIK the details of that investigation remain unreleased to the public and no actual evidence has been released that tie the current president to any wrongdoing. I sincerely hope and expect the FBI to conduct a thorough investigation. If it turns out that the president is involved in illegal activities, I support appropriate consequences.

 

But it sure seems like a lot of people here have already convicted Joe Biden in their own heads. At the same time, they say raiding Mar-a-Lago was inappropriate when we KNOW there was classified material inappropriately stored there. It doesn’t matter if Trump himself walked out with the material or even knew about it (although I find it rather unbelievable that he didn’t). A crime was most definitely committed and to argue that is shouldn’t even be investigated is grade-A, 100% absurd and HIGHLY hypocritical (unless you believe the FBI planted evidence, in which case: look out for those black helos, chemtrails, and gay frogs guys, amirite?).

 

Both parties need to do a better job of presenting us with candidates with vision, integrity, intelligence, common sense, and a litany of other desirable attributes. I’ve been deeply dissatisfied with candidates of all stripes as of late. But the Republican party really put up a softball when they nominated Trump & then basically accepted him as their deity. I’m sorry, but you can’t complain about Bill’s philandering, Hillary’s lawlessness, and Joe’s nepotism, and in the same breath express support for DJT who is all of those things on an order of magnitude worse. High profile politicians of all stripes have played by altered rules for a long time (news flash: Nancy Pelosi and Democratic lawmakers aren’t the only ones who’ve become stupid rich while in office) and I agree it’s wrong, but DJT has stuck his head so far out of the foxhole that nobody should be surprised he’s taking fire. 

And you don't think waiting 18 months and dropping the warrant 90 days prior to the midterms is political? 

I'm sticking with "but his documents" as the rallying cry. 

[Prozac]

38 minutes ago, pawnman said:

And you don't think waiting 18 months and dropping the warrant 90 days prior to the midterms is political? 

I'm sticking with "but his documents" as the rallying cry. 

Hmmm, what was happening in this country 18 months ago? It would’ve been decried as “political” then, just as it is now, just as it would be a year from now. By your rationale, we should never investigate any politician because there is ALWAYS something “political” going on. 

[herkbum]

Term limits would help things


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

[SpeedOfHeat]

On 8/13/2022 at 10:11 AM, GrndPndr said:

I wonder how many here think that Trump actually knew about these documents, and their content?

It is laughable to think he knew the content of these documents.  There is zero chance.  Simply because he doesn't read.  Ever.  He only watches cable TV.  And only if it's coverage about him.

[Sim]

I would not be surprised if this is true. 

[arg]

4 hours ago, nsplayr said:

If the FBI wants to investigate Hunter Biden’s laptop go for it, you won’t see me calling for the the FBI to be defunded or staging armed protests outside of field offices or trying to break into one.

In fact the director of the FBI Chris Wray was appointed by Trump after he fired Comey, so I’m sure he doesn’t have some kind of overriding loyalty to Biden that’s preventing him from doing so.

And FWIW I don’t support going back and re-litigating stuff from years/decades ago (eg GWB, drone strikes, emails from the Obama admin, etc.) If no charges were filed at the time then we can’t endlessly live in the past and put everyone on trial forever, something I think conservatives Democrats would agree with re: past racism/slavery and some other cultural issues.

Handling the present correctly is always the best way to move forward. 

FIFY since democrats were the party of slavery

[Prozac]

32 minutes ago, Sim said:

I would not be surprised if this is true. 

Always nice when someone posts some outlandish shit with a tagline like “wouldn’t be surprised if this was true” or “CRAZY if true”. In other words: “I have zero proof to back this up but I’m more than happy to perpetuate my one sided narrative while taking zero responsibility for propagating lies and half truths”. 
 

Stay classy Sim. 

[Prozac]

26 minutes ago, arg said:

FIFY since democrats were the party of slavery

Yeah. And Republicans once touted themselves as the party of reason. Amazing how quick things can change.