Today in hypocrisy...

[Lord Ratner]

4 hours ago, Pooter said:

Seems like your argument stems much more from what feels "fair"

How do people not understand that this is everything?

 

Successful societies are not built on right vs wrong. They are built on a sense of fairness. Violate that and you lose it all.

If you don't think that it matters that the FBI gave Hillary a pass and is now turning the screws on Trump, you're going to be really shocked when he's reelected president after being indicted, and possibly convicted. Donald Trump is the embodiment of the Republican backlash against what they see as unfair treatment.

 

The solution to that is not more double standards because at least we're doing the right thing now. When the only time you do the right thing is when it's your political opponents, you are not, in fact, doing the right thing.

 

[Mark1]

13 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

Successful societies are not built on right vs wrong. They are built on a sense of fairness. Violate that and you lose it all.

The solution to that is not more double standards because at least we're doing the right thing now. When the only time you do the right thing is when it's your political opponents, you are not, in fact, doing the right thing.

 

Right.  So once there's a single fuck up (even if it's just subjectively labeled such by a discrete group) you have to actively orchestrate every subsequent situation to also be a fuck up so that everything is fucked up in an equitable way.

Great approach to life.  I guess double homicide has been decriminalized ever since the whole O.J. situation.  You should let the DOJ know they've been violating the fundamental principle of successful societies for decades with that one.

[Lord Ratner]

1 hour ago, Mark1 said:

Right.  So once there's a single fuck up (even if it's just subjectively labeled such by a discrete group) you have to actively orchestrate every subsequent situation to also be a fuck up so that everything is fucked up in an equitable way.

Great approach to life.  I guess double homicide has been decriminalized ever since the whole O.J. situation.  You should let the DOJ know they've been violating the fundamental principle of successful societies for decades with that one.

No you walnut. Mistakes and fuck ups happen. That's inherent in the system.

 

These weren't fuck ups.

 

These were intentional applications and misapplications of law based on the political party of the subjects.

 

You think lying to the FISA court was a fuck up? Knowingly using campaign oppo research as evidence? Leaking investigation details to the press? Going on TV daily to lie about the details of the investigation? How about the tax returns that somehow made it to the press, was that a mistaken email from the IRS?

 

Where was the Hillary raid? These cases are so similar it's hilarious, except in her case, the head of the FBI claimed that it was likely her bathroom server of classified emails was compromised by foreign actors. But no no, no need to kick in the door for that. You think these differences are just oopsies? Then you're a fool.

 

The anti-Trump movement has been willing to do and be everything they accuse Trump of being in their crusade to save "us" from him. 

Edited August 18, 2022 by Lord Ratner

[JBueno]

I lose an IQ point every time I come here.

[WABoom]

I just want to see old DJT testify for 11 hours like HRC did.  Slightly off topic I know, but I have a Costco sized box of popcorn in my pantry that I desperately need to get rid of, and 11 hours of Trump testifying could very well do that.  Just sayin'

 

*First thread comment reply in 5+ years, please don't skewer me. 😁

[Lord Ratner]

30 minutes ago, WABoom said:

I just want to see old DJT testify for 11 hours like HRC did.  Slightly off topic I know, but I have a Costco sized box of popcorn in my pantry that I desperately need to get rid of, and 11 hours of Trump testifying could very well do that.  Just sayin'

 

*First thread comment reply in 5+ years, please don't skewer me. 😁

It would be a shit show, but the real entertainment would be watching his attorneys for the 11 hours. They'd be sweatier than the characters in top gun.

[TreeA10]

17 hours ago, Pooter said:

Help me understand why applying the "comey standard" here would make anything better. His bungling of the email investigation led to Hillary not being held accountable.. is that what you want to happen again?

Seems like your argument stems much more from what feels "fair" rather than what the right thing to do is right now. It's political tribalism at its finest.. the other team got away with it, why shouldn't your team get away with it too?  
 

This is the kind of childish tit-for-tat game that ends with no one being held accountable and the DOJ being used as a club only to try to whack your political opposition.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, either classified matters or it doesn't. If you hold literally any consistent principles above political tribalism you don't get to be mad that Hillary isn't locked up while simultaneously defending/quibbling for trump. 

They should both be in jail and I honestly can't think of two people who deserve each other more. 

Yeah, I like to think the role of law applied without bias is the best way to go but I'm not sure it's possible anymore. I've held that belief for as long as I can remember but it has been slowly chiseled away over the years. Was it Lois Lerner at the IRS not being held accountable?  Was it the FBI lovebirds investigating Trump exhibiting bias not being held accountable? Was it an FBI agent lying to get a FISA warrant to spy on US citizens getting a slap on the wrist? Was it Muller who spent 2 years investigating the Trump Russian collusion hoax not just not looking into the Steele dossier but acted like he hadn't heard of it? And now the FBI has raided the home of a former president. Was it the FBI intentionally deep sixing Hunters laptop? Was it guys like Clapper, Brennan, and Macabe that demonstrably lied to Congress not being help accountable? Was it the 50 intel people who lied and said Hunters laptop was Russian disinfo not being help accountable? Then there are Antifa rioters vs capitol hill rioters, illegals crossing the boarder without vaccination were good vs citizens without vaccinations were bad. And this just a short list of stuff I can think of at 6am.
 

There have been so many contradictory actions from DC that break down to ideology that I'm not sure fair is possible anymore. It is tribal. So, do you stick with the old rules and laws which are being applied unidirectionally and your tribe continues to lose or go with the new rules which seems to be that winning is the only rule and whatever it takes to win is okay. Either path is going to be very bad for the future of our country. 

[nsplayr]

What you’re advocating for here is the end of the rule of law. Perhaps you believe we’re already there but I do not. Even if you do believe the FBI is lawless, the right solution isn’t to use it for your own political gain as soon as you are able, it’s to bring it back to heel and within the bounds of the rule of law. Eye-for-an-eye justice is not the American way.

I think we should continue to support and defend the constitution and improve or shore up any government functions that aren’t running optimally rather than wholesale throwing out our institutions and sliding into partisan authoritarianism.

I guess you can make another choice but I mean…🤷‍♂️

How about we not give up on America and fulfill the oaths I’m pretty sure nearly all of us swore? 🇺🇸

Edited August 18, 2022 by nsplayr

[BrightNeptune]

37 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

... rule of law...the oaths I’m pretty sure nearly all of us swore? 🇺🇸

Please point to me the exact phrase in the Constitution that allows for the FBI to exist.

There are millions of things that go against the oath we all swore. The oath is useless and Constitution means nothing. 

None of us actually defended the Constitution. We supported and continue to support our destroyers.  

[TreeA10]

5 hours ago, nsplayr said:

What you’re advocating for here is the end of the rule of law. Perhaps you believe we’re already there but I do not. Even if you do believe the FBI is lawless, the right solution isn’t to use it for your own political gain as soon as you are able, it’s to bring it back to heel and within the bounds of the rule of law. Eye-for-an-eye justice is not the American way.

I think we should continue to support and defend the constitution and improve or shore up any government functions that aren’t running optimally rather than wholesale throwing out our institutions and sliding into partisan authoritarianism.

I guess you can make another choice but I mean…🤷‍♂️

How about we not give up on America and fulfill the oaths I’m pretty sure nearly all of us swore? 🇺🇸

I'm not advocating anything because one side may already be there. I'm wondering if both sides should play by what seems to be the newly accepted rules.  I don't hear too many Democrats or media, but I repeat myself, standing up saying what has occurred is wrong, unfair, or illegal which means they are okay with it. 

You say bring the FBI to heel but an agency that has displayed a variety of lies, omissions, and contempt to unseat a president isn't going willingly to that end and can't be made to go without BOTH parties calling for it. 

Sliding into partisan authoritarianism? By my observation, we've slid. One side put us there and seems happy with it. But you start to make the voting process questionable, force a variety of mandates on people, and the rule of law only applies when one side benefits and the problem will be people NOT giving up on America but how they respond. It won't be good for our country. 

For example, look at the wonderful label this guy just applied to half the citizens of this country. https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2022/08/18/what-obamas-former-cia-director-just-said-shows-why-people-dont-trust-their-government-n2611946

 

Edited August 18, 2022 by TreeA10

[pawnman]

3 hours ago, nsplayr said:

What you’re advocating for here is the end of the rule of law. Perhaps you believe we’re already there but I do not. Even if you do believe the FBI is lawless, the right solution isn’t to use it for your own political gain as soon as you are able, it’s to bring it back to heel and within the bounds of the rule of law. Eye-for-an-eye justice is not the American way.

I think we should continue to support and defend the constitution and improve or shore up any government functions that aren’t running optimally rather than wholesale throwing out our institutions and sliding into partisan authoritarianism.

I guess you can make another choice but I mean…🤷‍♂️

How about we not give up on America and fulfill the oaths I’m pretty sure nearly all of us swore? 🇺🇸

So Biden SHOULDN'T be wielding the FBI as a cudgel against Trump? 

Glad you came around. 

[nsplayr]

4 hours ago, BrightNeptune said:

Please point to me the exact phrase in the Constitution that allows for the FBI to exist.

There are millions of things that go against the oath we all swore. The oath is useless and Constitution means nothing. 

None of us actually defended the Constitution. We supported and continue to support our destroyers.  

This is quite the point of view, especially if you are a currently-serving officer! Good luck to you.

[nsplayr]

2 hours ago, pawnman said:

So Biden SHOULDN'T be wielding the FBI as a cudgel against Trump? 

Glad you came around. 

Trump has TS/SCI at his house in Florida 18 months into being a private citizen! That seems bad!

I do in fact want the FBI to look into stuff like that, as well as any other lawbreaking done by Americans or in America and don’t hold the view that the FBI is some liberal stasi controlled in secret by Dark Brandon.

Chris Wray, who is personally a Republican and currently the director of the FBI, was appointed by Trump out-of-cycle when he fired Comey. I don’t think he has some kind of vendetta against Trump, but maybe y’all can point your questions that way.

Edited August 18, 2022 by nsplayr

[Best-22]

5 hours ago, BrightNeptune said:

The oath is useless and Constitution means nothing.  

This point of view is completely incompatible with military service. Did you forget what forum you're on? 

 

Yikes 

[pawnman]

1 hour ago, nsplayr said:

Trump has TS/SCI at his house in Florida 18 months into being a private citizen! That seems bad!

I do in fact want the FBI to look into stuff like that, as well as any other lawbreaking done by Americans or in America and don’t hold the view that the FBI is some liberal stasi controlled in secret by Dark Brandon.

Chris Wray, who is personally a Republican and currently the director of the FBI, was appointed by Trump out-of-cycle when he fired Comey. I don’t think he has some kind of vendetta against Trump, but maybe y’all can point your questions that way.

Sure. But one wonders things like:

Why did it take 18 months?

Why was it a raid instead of requesting it from the lawyers?

Why was it urgent to raid Trump's house 90 days before the midterms, and not last year?

Why wasn't Hillary's house raided in similar fashion?

And this isn't in isolation. One may also wonder:

Why handcuff Navarro at an airport instead of having his lawyer bring him in for questioning?

Why does the Jan 6th committee seem so interested in the testimony of someone not in the vehicle, but has no interest in interviewing the secret service agent driving the vehicle, after it was claimed Trump tried to wrestle with the steering wheel?

Why is there no cross examination of witnesses for the Jan 6th committee? 

Maybe you think this is all impartial. I sure don't see it that way.

[tac airlifter]

2 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Trump has TS/SCI at his house in Florida 18 months into being a private citizen! 

Do you know this as a fact or are you regurgitating accusations?  You bought into the Russia collusion hoax hook line and sinker; recommend learn from that embarrassment.

TDS is real. 

[nsplayr]

15 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

Do you know this as a fact or are you regurgitating accusations?  You bought into the Russia collusion hoax hook line and sinker; recommend learn from that embarrassment.

TDS is real. 

100% this is a fact. See page 6. I have posted this link before but it’s the search warrant and record of property that was seized.

And not just “classified.” TS/SCI specifically, which is why I say that. There are rumors of other types of data related to nukes and etc. but that’s all rumors and therefore not something I put any belief in at this point; let the investigation unfold.

https://s3.documentcloud.org/documents/22131373/unsealed-mar-a-lago-warrant.pdf

Edited August 19, 2022 by nsplayr

[Prozac]

4 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

Do you know this as a fact or are you regurgitating accusations?  You bought into the Russia collusion hoax hook line and sinker; recommend learn from that embarrassment.

TDS is real. 

Dude, there is a receipt from the FBI for items removed from Mar-a-Lago. Amongst those items are boxes of classified information. No one has accused the FBI of lying about what they took. In fact, Trump has tacitly admitted to having classified documents in his possession by making the absurd claim that he had a standing order to declassify them. Maybe look away from One America News for a minute? 

[nsplayr]

1 hour ago, pawnman said:

Sure. But one wonders things like:

…lots of questions…

Some of these are very valid questions…worthy of answering during the course of an investigation!

But this isn’t a hoax, an FBI false flag, or whatever other insane theories are out there. There is an investigation into alleged wrongdoing and lawbreaking.

Unlike many folks I remember in 2016, I’m not going to chant “lock him up.” There should be an investigation, and if warranted, an indictment, trial and sentencing. Only after that do you do the locking up part, if needed, not before and certainly at the behest of a political mob.

You also don’t just “give him a pass” based on previous unrelated cases, that’s now how the rule of law works.

Edited August 19, 2022 by nsplayr

[tac airlifter]

11 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Dude, there is a receipt from the FBI for items removed from Mar-a-Lago…….  In fact, Trump has tacitly admitted to having classified documents in his possession by making the absurd claim that he had a standing order to declassify them. 

Whether the documents were or were not declassified is the point of contention.  You say his standing order to declassify what he brings home is absurd, but as the ultimate declassification authority, no it isn’t, that’s the whole point of this.  I understand you disagree with that viewpoint, and apparently so does the FBI and justice department. TBD in court I guess.  Regardless the precedent of cops raiding your political enemies over something so minor and murky is extremely dangerous.

This will amount to as much of a nothing burger as the Russia gate hoax.  But since gambling is more fun than arguing, I’m happy to wager a bottle of booze on my assertions. Be warned, I have a flawless predictive track record on disagreements where booze is gambled.
 

 

[Sua Sponte]

4 hours ago, nsplayr said:

Trump has TS/SCI at his house in Florida 18 months into being a private citizen! That seems bad!

I do in fact want the FBI to look into stuff like that, as well as any other lawbreaking done by Americans or in America and don’t hold the view that the FBI is some liberal stasi controlled in secret by Dark Brandon.

Chris Wray, who is personally a Republican and currently the director of the FBI, was appointed by Trump out-of-cycle when he fired Comey. I don’t think he has some kind of vendetta against Trump, but maybe y’all can point your questions that way.

The Biden Administration stated they learned of the seizure when it was in the media.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-09/biden-learned-of-trump-raid-from-media-reports-white-house-says

I'm sure people will disagree, but they also don't have any proof other than conjecture to show otherwise. 

[CaptainMorgan]

The Biden Administration stated they learned of the seizure when it was in the media.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-09/biden-learned-of-trump-raid-from-media-reports-white-house-says
I'm sure people will disagree, but they also don't have any proof other than conjecture to show otherwise. 

Don’t understand your point. Are you saying Biden didn’t know and allowed the FBI, part of the Executive Branch, to act without his oversight, or are you saying he’s lying? Either look isn’t good for him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nsplayr]

This is extremely normal and how it’s supposed to work.

The Attorney General Merrick Garland personally approved of the warrant being served…he even had a brief press conference about it. But he did not, nor should he have, pre-briefed President Biden.

There is supposed to be some autonomy and political distance between the President and certain justice officials, like the director of the FBI and the AG, even though both are part of the executive branch and derive their powers and duties from the President’s constitutional charge to faithfully execute the laws.

Different Presidents handle it differently and not always consistently. Bill Clinton, GWB and Obama I don’t think were ever really inappropriately close to their AGs, give or take. Trump was furious that Jeff Sessions and then Bill Barr weren’t basically his personal lawyers and enforcers and both eventually resigned because of it…so like I said…they handled it differently 😅

Edited August 19, 2022 by nsplayr

[Lord Ratner]

46 minutes ago, Sua Sponte said:

The Biden Administration stated they learned of the seizure when it was in the media.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-08-09/biden-learned-of-trump-raid-from-media-reports-white-house-says

I'm sure people will disagree, but they also don't have any proof other than conjecture to show otherwise. 

I think you'd have to be high to think the FBI would raid a former president's house without the approval of the current president.

 

If true, Biden should shit-can the entire chain of command. He's supposed to be their boss, when he isn't mumbling into his oatmeal, and this would be a phenomenal decision to make without him.

[arg]

I don’t believe they didn’t tell Biden. I do believe however that he didn’t know.