Today in hypocrisy...

[Pooter]

4 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

You misunderstand the difference between single family residential properties and large scale commercial properties.  I'm not an expert but I had it explained to me by someone who was; basically there's a standard practice to increase property value based on zoning and permits for future planned development.  And those things have real worth.  
 

The banks in question stated for the record they were not defrauded and wanted to continue business with the Trump organization.  This is ops normal, everyone does it, no one else is prosecuted for it.  This is absolutely a BS political prosecution.  

I think you're misunderstanding the scope of the fraud. 
 

https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/tto_release_properties_addendum_-_final.pdf

 

Here's a great 8 page list of fraudulent activity across a wide range of properties including everything from commercial, residential penthouses, estates, and rent controlled apartments. This is not some zoning snafu on a single commercial development project. 
 

In a few instances he had properties professionally appraised, then lied about the appraisal value, but still cited the appraiser.

In other instances trump org lied about the value of future development projects fully knowing that environmental and zoning regulations would prevent them from completing anything close to full development. This would be like me saying my house is worth 10 million because I'm going to 'develop' an amusement park on my property.. oh wait I live in a residential neighborhood and absolutely cannot do that. 
 

This litany of overvaluations fed into the acquisition of favorable loans by drastically inflating the reported 'net worth' of the trump org. While simultaneously, they used lower appraisal figures internally that they knew to be more accurate for tax and insurance purposes. 
 

It's fraud. On a massive, hilarious scale. Try doing even 1/10th of 1% of what the trump org did and you'd be absolutely f**ked by auditors. 

[Pooter]

And for the sake of fairness I think anyone who does this appraisal chicanery should be prosecuted. The 'everyone does it' argument is weak sauce and has nothing to do with what the laws on the books are. 

The fact that I have to worry about a few hundred in dividends on my HYSA during tax season but Trump gets to do this shit and Nancy pelosis husband gets to make millions off nvidia stock makes my blood boil. 

[HeloDude]

When  person runs for NY attorney general, a political position, on the platform of taking down Trump, don’t be surprised when people think the take down attempt is…wait for it…political.  

[Clark Griswold]

5 hours ago, Pooter said:

The creditors were absolutely defrauded. They issued lower interest rate/higher principle loans based on fraudulent collateral asset claims. Just because the government figured it out before the creditors doesn't mean a crime didn't take place. 

And if you truly think this is some horrible selective prosecution that spells the end of the republic, I have an experiment for you. Next time you apply for a mortgage try grossly inflating your assets and see how far you get with that. And when you get investigated for fraud, try pitching the victimless crime narrative. 

But you would never try that because you know exactly what would happen. So only one question remains: why do you think trump should get away with something you never could?

So are any of them suing him for this fraud?  I don’t see any trying to get back what you say he cheated them out of, they would have greatest incentive but none are making public statements that they are.

57 minutes ago, Pooter said:

It's fraud. On a massive, hilarious scale. Try doing even 1/10th of 1% of what the Big Guy did and you'd be absolutely f**ked by any law enforcement agency 

FIFY

[Lord Ratner]

6 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

The banks in question stated for the record they were not defrauded and wanted to continue business with the Trump organization.

This is all you need to know. That's it. Everything else is just noise.

 

In every other Court in America you have to have standing to bring forward a case. Even if someone beats the shit out of you, you have to tell the authorities that you want to press charges, or nothing can be done.

 

New York decided to press charges on behalf of a "victim" that did not feel victimized.

[Pooter]

1 hour ago, Lord Ratner said:

This is all you need to know. That's it. Everything else is just noise.

 

In every other Court in America you have to have standing to bring forward a case. Even if someone beats the shit out of you, you have to tell the authorities that you want to press charges, or nothing can be done.

 

New York decided to press charges on behalf of a "victim" that did not feel victimized.

New York has a specific statute 63/12 which grants the AG broad power to go after fraud without having to show standing. The judges have knocked the 'no standing' argument down multiple times because it's completely erroneous. 

It's been used before and the statute has been on the books since the 1950's when it was originally created by a Republican. 

[Standby]

5 minutes ago, Pooter said:

New York has a specific statute 63/12 which grants the AG broad power to go after fraud without having to show standing. The judges have knocked the 'no standing' argument down multiple times because it's completely erroneous. 

It's been used before and the statute has been on the books since the 1950's when it was originally created by a Republican. 

I’m sure the use case was to target former presidents and their financial dealings because of how well-liked they were…

Get real dude. 

[Lord Ratner]

1 hour ago, Pooter said:

New York has a specific statute 63/12 which grants the AG broad power to go after fraud without having to show standing. The judges have knocked the 'no standing' argument down multiple times because it's completely erroneous. 

It's been used before and the statute has been on the books since the 1950's when it was originally created by a Republican. 

Created by a Republican doesn't make it right. It's a foundational principal of our legal system, though I'm sure no one is shocked to see New York go a different way.

 

I don't even care that they are doing it from a political perspective. Trump is going to win and his ability to do whatever he wants will be reinforced by these clearly political prosecutions. Democrats always think they're so clever, like when they gave Trump a bunch of free publicity in 2016 because they were sure Hilary could demolish Trump. Oops. This too will backfire.

 

But from a societal perspective, give me a fucking break. How many executives went to jail after the 2008 Financial Collapse? Did New York forget about that law at the time? Remarkable they couldn't find any fraud back then.

 

Selective application of the law is the single best way to undermine it. Democrats are completely shocked that Republicans have finally embraced their situational-faith in the rule of law. Buckle up, because the more the Republicans embrace the tactics of the left, the uglier this election season will get.

[Pooter]

'Everyone is doing it'

'its politically motivated'

'they didn't show standing' 

'They didn't prosecute xyz person for the same thing'

All true. Unfortunately for you guys (and trump), these gripes don't hold an ounce of legal weight in the jurisdiction in question.  
 

Regardless of the motivation of the AG I'm happy to see trump held accountable for something, for basically the first time ever, after a lifetime of pulling shit like this. And if it opens a pandoras box where the right prosecutes Dems for crimes, that sounds f-ing amazing to me! Selective prosecution is absolutely a problem, but you don't solve it by not prosecuting anyone for anything, because 'it'll be bad for the country.'

Whats bad for the country is the system we currently have where the political elite are effectively immune from legal consequences. There is literally nothing I want to see more in politics than more prosecutions taking down as many of these assholes as possible (on all sides) 

[ViperMan]

7 hours ago, Pooter said:

I think you're misunderstanding the scope of the fraud. 
https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/tto_release_properties_addendum_-_final.pdf

Here's a great 8 page list of fraudulent activity across a wide range of properties including everything from commercial, residential penthouses, estates, and rent controlled apartments. This is not some zoning snafu on a single commercial development project. 

In a few instances he had properties professionally appraised, then lied about the appraisal value, but still cited the appraiser.

In other instances trump org lied about the value of future development projects fully knowing that environmental and zoning regulations would prevent them from completing anything close to full development. This would be like me saying my house is worth 10 million because I'm going to 'develop' an amusement park on my property.. oh wait I live in a residential neighborhood and absolutely cannot do that. 

This litany of overvaluations fed into the acquisition of favorable loans by drastically inflating the reported 'net worth' of the trump org. While simultaneously, they used lower appraisal figures internally that they knew to be more accurate for tax and insurance purposes. 

It's fraud. On a massive, hilarious scale. Try doing even 1/10th of 1% of what the trump org did and you'd be absolutely f**ked by auditors. 

All of this can be and is likely true. It's also true that a second Trump term will be far less damaging to the future of this country than another Biden term will be. So it doesn't matter - to the people voting for him, and to many on this board. You beating the drum about Trump being a real-estate fraudster is sort of nonsensical and childish. Why are you doing it? Do you think people who are voting for him GAF? People are choosing between the lesser of two evils as they see them. The hour is way past the point where caring even one iota about lying on a tax form is going to move the needle for most people in this election cycle. This complaint seems has an air to me similar to that of running to the teacher to tattle on your fellow classmates in 1st grade. Ms. Krabapple, he stole my lunch money!!

[Pooter]

38 minutes ago, ViperMan said:

All of this can be and is likely true. It's also true that a second Trump term will be far less damaging to the future of this country than another Biden term will be. So it doesn't matter - to the people voting for him, and to many on this board. You beating the drum about Trump being a real-estate fraudster is sort of nonsensical and childish. Why are you doing it? Do you think people who are voting for him GAF? People are choosing between the lesser of two evils as they see them. The hour is way past the point where caring even one iota about lying on a tax form is going to move the needle for most people in this election cycle. This complaint seems has an air to me similar to that of running to the teacher to tattle on your fellow classmates in 1st grade. Ms. Krabapple, he stole my lunch money!!

it's so interesting to watch these arguments morph

-Jon Stewart sold a house once

-it's not fraud it's a zoning thing

-ok maybe it's fraud but everyone does it

-ok maybe this is fraud is pretty big, but no one complained at the time

-ok the AG doesn't need to show standing to prosecute, but it's wrong because it's politically motivated

and now the latest one:

-it's not going to move the needle politically so why even hold people accountable to the law

This is the kind of blind party loyalty over any level of principle that has gotten us to the point where we have the two oldest, shittiest presidential candidates in history, and where whichever side loses is all but guaranteed to go on an unhinged riot spree. I don't think it's too much or too late to ask for accountability across the board. 

[Lord Ratner]

2 hours ago, Pooter said:

I don't think it's too much or too late to ask for accountability across the board. 

You're missing the point.

 

It's always time to ask for accountability as long as the open shot is at a conservative. Then Democrats somehow go right back to ignoring the law.

 

The law doesn't matter nearly as much as the equal application of said law. So:

3 hours ago, Pooter said:

Selective prosecution is absolutely a problem, but you don't solve it by not prosecuting anyone for anything, because 'it'll be bad for the country.'

Incorrect. That's exactly how you solve it. If a law can't be or isn't equally applied, your best option is to ignore it completely or, even better, abolish the law. There is a reason Lady Justice wears a blindfold.

Also, aggregating different arguments from a different people to falsely depict a shifting narrative is not a particularly strong debate strategy. There also not just a single reason why this is a problem.

 

2 hours ago, Pooter said:

I don't think it's too much or too late to ask for accountability across the board. 

But it's not being asked for, is it? There's not just one investigator and one court in the land. No reason they couldn't have gone after a prominent Democrat at the same time. But they didn't. I didn't see a single prominent Democrat calling for the disqualification or imprisonment of Biden for his mishandling of classified, as proven by the investigation.

- But he turned it all over!

- He was honest in his deposition

- Mike Pence had classified at home too

- His house has security

And hilariously, this all started with the non-prosecution of Hillary, who 100% attempted to cover up her crime, just like Trump. They *all* mishandle classified.

Our enemies aren't getting an upper hand because of classified being kept in a garage by a Corvette or a basement at Mar a Lago. So let's just stop, and focus on policy. Trump is no more a criminal than national-level politicians have been for decades.

 

And none of this "if you or I did that..." Nonsense. There has *always* been a different standard for the elites, regardless of party. So we suddenly care about class-based discrimination after literally thousands of years of human history, and we are going to start caring *only* when Trump runs for president?

And we wonder why conservatives are distrustful now.

[ClearedHot]

7 hours ago, Pooter said:

it's so interesting to watch these arguments morph

- The laptop is fake, suppress it.

- Biden never met with his son's business partners.

- Biden met with business partners but didn't discuss business.

- Those were loans.

- Everyone who testified Biden was the brand is lying.

- So what.

 

[gearhog]

Hyprocisy:

On 9/11/2021 at 7:48 AM, gearhog said:

Remember that drone strike a couple days after the fall of HKIA? (Page 30 of this thread)

Embarassing. How much can you lie, fcuk up, and fail as the CJCS and still keep your job?

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/09/10/world/asia/us-air-strike-drone-kabul-afghanistan-isis.html

The New York Times:

Since the strike, U.S. military officials justified their actions by citing an even larger blast that took place afterward.

“Because there were secondary explosions, there is a reasonable conclusion to be made that there was explosives in that vehicle,” the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Mark A. Milley, said last week.

But an examination of the scene of the strike, conducted by the Times visual investigations team and a Times reporter the morning afterward, and followed up with a second visit four days later, found no evidence of a second, more powerful explosion.

Experts who examined photos and videos pointed out that, although there was clear evidence of a missile strike and subsequent vehicle fire, there were no collapsed or blown-out walls, no destroyed vegetation, and only one dent in the entrance gate, indicating a single shock wave.

“It seriously questions the credibility of the intelligence or technology utilized to determine this was a legitimate target,” said Chris Cobb-Smith, a British Army veteran and security consultant.

While the U.S. military has so far acknowledged only three civilian casualties, Mr. Ahmadi’s relatives said that 10 members of their family, including seven children, were killed in the strike: Mr. Ahmadi and three of his children, Zamir, 20, Faisal, 16, and Farzad, 10; Mr. Ahmadi’s cousin Naser, 30; three of Romal’s children, Arwin, 7, Benyamin, 6, and Hayat, 2; and two 3-year-old girls, Malika and Somaya.

 

Biden made no statements when an innocent family was bombed in Kabul during his botched withdrawal.

Biden is now outraged and heartbroken by the bombing of aid workers in Gaza.

Israel has pledged to conduct a thorough investigation into why the aid workers’ vehicles were hit by airstrikes. That investigation must be swift, it must bring accountability, and its findings must be made public. 

Even more tragically, this is not a stand-alone incident. This conflict has been one of the worst in recent memory in terms of how many aid workers have been killed. This is a major reason why distributing humanitarian aid in Gaza has been so difficult – because Israel has not done enough to protect aid workers trying to deliver desperately needed help to civilians. Incidents like yesterday’s simply should not happen. Israel has also not done enough to protect civilians. The United States has repeatedly urged Israel to deconflict their military operations against Hamas with humanitarian operations, in order to avoid civilian casualties. 

https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-room/statements-releases/2024/04/02/statement-from-president-joe-biden-on-the-death-of-world-central-kitchen-workers-in-gaza/

[Biff_T]

https://www.newsweek.com/gavin-newsom-restaurant-16-hourly-wage-california-plumpjack-cafe-1886313

Lol.   What excuse will be made for Mr Newsom this time?  

[fire4effect]

On 4/2/2024 at 7:06 PM, Pooter said:

New York has a specific statute 63/12 which grants the AG broad power to go after fraud without having to show standing. The judges have knocked the 'no standing' argument down multiple times because it's completely erroneous. 

It's been used before and the statute has been on the books since the 1950's when it was originally created by a Republican. 

And broad power to NOT go after someone(s) and look the other way until it's politically expedient. I'm sure this has been done in New York by the rich and powerful in general and Trump in particular for years and now someone finally decides it's a problem. Bottom line why now and not 20 years ago?

[Lawman]

And broad power to NOT go after someone(s) and look the other way until it's politically expedient. I'm sure this has been done in New York by the rich and powerful in general and Trump in particular for years and now someone finally decides it's a problem. Bottom line why now and not 20 years ago?

Well 20 years ago he was a democrat…

Oh wait did I say the quiet part out loud?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[ClearedHot]

Rep Shelia Jackson Lee (D) served as a member of the Science Committee and the Ranking Member on the Space and Aeronautics Subcommittee...

 

[Biff_T]

29 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

Rep Shelia Jackson Lee (D) served as a member of the Science Committee and the Ranking Member on the Space and Aeronautics Subcommittee...

Another tard.  

Edit: Maybe she was talking about 5 billion years ago when the Earth and its moon were still forming.  She's just smarter than everyone else.  

Edited April 9 by Biff_T
Afterthought

[Danger41]

That's almost as good as Guam tipping over.

[FourFans]

2 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Rep Shelia Jackson Lee (D) served as a member of the Science Committee and the Ranking Member on the Space and Aeronautics Subcommittee...

 

How?  How the hell does someone like this not only get elected, and RE-elected, but placed in charge of a subcommittee on Space and Aero?!

Surprising that she's not wearing a mask, bird flu is coming.

Edited April 9 by FourFans

[Day Man]

1 hour ago, FourFans said:

How?  How the hell does someone like this not only get elected...

great question

[tac airlifter]

39 minutes ago, Day Man said:

great question

You can attempt a Trump deflection all day long, and I get it both sides have issues, but the Democrats have the preponderance of retards. There is no possible argument.

[Negatory]

There’s absolutely an argument. Marjorie Taylor Greene says states should “consider seceding from the union”

https://www.rollingstone.com/politics/politics-news/marjorie-taylor-greene-states-consider-seceding-from-the-union-1234822567/

Why don’t we just agree both sides are terrible and divisive? Because your identity is tied into a made up reductionist construct of a political party?

[FourFans]

1 hour ago, Negatory said:

Why don’t we just agree both sides are terrible and divisive? 

Because some people say more words than others.  Yes Green is a RETARD.  That's one.  I'd guess you can count the number of truly retard level right wingers on a couple hands.  Not so with the left.  The current (i emphasis that because in two years it might be the entire opposite) situation is that the democratic party is entertaining a untenably high number of radical leftist. 

Saying the Left and Right both have their radicals only makes sense if the number of radicals and the power of their voices is roughly equal to the point of providing some form of balance.  It isn't.  Not by a long shot.  The left is has gone extreme left to an excessive degree that is in no way counterbalanced by the radicals on the right.  Hell, there is no such thing as balancing radicals in the first place.  

'Just admitting' both sides are divisive (which is true) is a false premise, and reduces reality down to an 'even' status that simply does not exist.  In the inverse, it's like putting Tom Brady on a middle school JV team and lining them up against the KC Chief's D-Line and saying "well, they have Tom Brady so lets admit we have great players on both teams".  Not a viable argument.

Edited April 9 by FourFans