Reality check or words of encouragement?

[bs98]

GPA: non-stem 3.7 from a brand name school

AFOQT: 95+ in all categories except quant (78)

PCSM: ***Now 92***60, including the points added for my 20 flight hours. (considering TBAS retake)

Removed the rest for personal stuff. Message me if you want to know anything!

 

 

Edited February 17, 2023 by bs98
updated score

[Tarawa565]

A few thoughts: 

GPA and AFOQT are good. PCSM is low - what's the 200 hour score? If below 80/90, definitely retake to be competitive for fighters. 

Everything else - age, experience, etc. is good, with one exception: PPL. You really want to get that to be competitive for fighters, and really to be competitive for anything Guard/Reserve. 

Specifically, here's one dude's opinions on your questions.

1) Yes. 

2) Don't enlist in the reserves/Guard unless you want to enlist in the reserves/Guard. There's nothing wrong with it (and many things good with it), but you don't go to UPT by enlisting (directly, at least). 

3) No. Take a CSO/EWO spot if you want to be a CSO/EWO. Don't do it just because you think it's a path to being a pilot. 

A few questions I would ask/you should ask of yourself:

1) why are you only talking about reserve units and only east coast? Especially if you're also considering active duty? I'd be looking at every Guard/Reserve unit out there. 

2) check out bogidope for contact info, introduce yourself to people, go to rush weekends, etc. (unless you're completely illiterate, which I don't think is the case, folks should respond if you're contacting the right folks - i.e. they're having a board soon, looking for people, etc.)

3) what's your life timeline? If it were me, I'd be applying to my dream units for another year or two, then I'd apply for everything under the sun. But, if you're worried about getting started, I'd apply for everything now.

 

 

[Nate B]

I applied to 10+ units over the last two years and never got an interview, but just got picked up active duty. I am also a current (AF) linguist stationed OCONUS so was never able to actually visit any units, had similar AFOQT scores with all above 95 except quant (82). PCSM was an 89 with like 18 hours. I think the major factor holding me back was probably lack of PPL and visiting units. I think Active Duty with your scores is definitely something to consider. 

[bs98]

43 minutes ago, Nate B said:

I applied to 10+ units over the last two years and never got an interview, but just got picked up active duty. I am also a current (AF) linguist stationed OCONUS so was never able to actually visit any units, had similar AFOQT scores with all above 95 except quant (82). PCSM was an 89 with like 18 hours. I think the major factor holding me back was probably lack of PPL and visiting units. I think Active Duty with your scores is definitely something to consider. 

congrats on getting picked up! I'll be applying to the one FY23 board I'll be stateside for. Honestly, I think there's a lot more flexibility in active duty careers. Just has the uncertainty up front.

 

Out of curiosity, what type of units were you applying to on the reserve component side? Your scores seems great.

Edited August 3, 2022 by bs98

[Nate B]

12 minutes ago, bs98 said:

congrats on getting picked up! I'll be applying to the one FY23 board I'll be stateside for. Honestly, I think there's a lot more flexibility in active duty careers. Just has the uncertainty up front.

 

Out of curiosity, what type of units were you applying to on the reserve component side? Your scores seems great.

I applied to fighters, tankers, C-17, and C-130s. Good luck in this board! Reach out if you need any help with the package. 

[Biff_T]

"The world is your oyster my friend, until you stop believing in yourself." - (Biff_T, 22)

There are going to be several paths to go down.  Pick what works best for you.

I did the enlisted first OTS route.  I don't recommend that path, especially, if you have your degree.

A few recommendations:

1. Get your CFI or CFII.  Get hours teaching.  Apply to OTS for pilot slot.  You will do better than most in your class.  My friend did this and he flew F-15Cs and F-22s.  

2. Get your CFI or CFII.  Get hours.  Apply to airlines.  While flying for the airlines, apply to OTS (if you really want to 😄.  But in all seriousness, I had a friend who did this and flew C-17s.  

3. Apply to an airline with a cadet program.  They will make you a regional pilot.  Fly and apply.  This is a trend on purpose.  

4. There are way more options than these but I know for a fact these guys made it.  Regardless what you do, keep applying to guard and reserve units.  They don't know you're there if you don't tell them.

 

[bs98]

On 8/3/2022 at 11:26 PM, Biff_T said:

"The world is your oyster my friend, until you stop believing in yourself." - (Biff_T, 22)

There are going to be several paths to go down.  Pick what works best for you.

I did the enlisted first OTS route.  I don't recommend that path, especially, if you have your degree.

A few recommendations:

1. Get your CFI or CFII.  Get hours teaching.  Apply to OTS for pilot slot.  You will do better than most in your class.  My friend did this and he flew F-15Cs and F-22s.  

2. Get your CFI or CFII.  Get hours.  Apply to airlines.  While flying for the airlines, apply to OTS (if you really want to 😄.  But in all seriousness, I had a friend who did this and flew C-17s.  

3. Apply to an airline with a cadet program.  They will make you a regional pilot.  Fly and apply.  This is a trend on purpose.  

4. There are way more options than these but I know for a fact these guys made it.  Regardless what you do, keep applying to guard and reserve units.  They don't know you're there if you don't tell them.

 

Thanks for the response… I never really thought about going all the way to CFI to boost the application process (and learn along the way), but I do have 4 months or so before my graduate school starts and this sounds like a good use of time.

As soon as I can stomach the thought of spending $xx,000, I’ll heed the advice 

[Biff_T]

3 hours ago, bs98 said:

Thanks for the response… I never really thought about going all the way to CFI to boost the application process (and learn along the way), but I do have 4 months or so before my graduate school starts and this sounds like a good use of time.

As soon as I can stomach the thought of spending $xx,000, I’ll heed the advice 

Yeah, it's a little pricey to go the CFI route.  If you can't do that, just keep working towards your PPL and keep applying.  Most of the guys in my class had barely any hours prior to UPT and did fine.   

[brabus]

I personally wouldn’t spend money you don’t really have to go anywhere past your PPL. PPL is good enough to show you actually enjoy flying and are teachable. We’ve hired several people with single digit flying hours. 

Apply everywhere and don’t enlist in the ANG, too old to start playing that game. 

[Biff_T]

On 8/24/2022 at 10:50 AM, brabus said:

I personally wouldn’t spend money you don’t really have to go anywhere past your PPL. PPL is good enough to show you actually enjoy flying and are teachable. We’ve hired several people with single digit flying hours. 

Apply everywhere and don’t enlist in the ANG, too old to start playing that game. 

This is good advice for anyone reading.  

[Guardian]

I personally wouldn’t spend money you don’t really have to go anywhere past your PPL. PPL is good enough to show you actually enjoy flying and are teachable. We’ve hired several people with single digit flying hours. 
Apply everywhere and don’t enlist in the ANG, too old to start playing that game. 

For what type of airframe did you hire people into? Fighters, bombers, tanker, cargo, etc?

[brabus]

Fighters

[Guardian]

Cool. Wasn’t expecting a low hours acceptance for fighters. What other tangibles do you guys go for? Above 85-90 in test scores?

[brabus]

I think we do pretty well at “whole person concept.” Of course high scores, GPA (degree type factored in), etc. matter. But also the interview is huge - I’ll take the 29 yr old hockey player with a 2.9 GPA who’s a volunteer EMT over the 4.2 GPA/99s, works at LM, awkward 23 yr old. Scores aren’t everything - demo you can handle hard work, have faced adversity and not quit, are a team player and a dude we want to go to war (and the bar) with. There are also incredibly smart people who are gifted academically, but you can just tell they’re not the “get into the fray” type. That’s OK, just fighters aren’t for that person. 

[bs98]

@brabus @Biff_T @Tarawa565 @Nate B

First off, a big thanks to everyone who replied. I truly did take the advice to heart and am actioning just about all of it. New updates, so I'll just post a summary since I'm excited and don't have too many pilot mentors in real life yet:

3.7 GPA, 95 Pilot score, 92 PCSM (new), 22 hours (more scheduled), 24 years old

Plan: This website and the commenters have been invaluable in helping me figure out this process. Now that I have a good PCSM, I feel like a lot of options have opened up. 

My first choice might be active duty until someone can talk me out of it; it just seems there are more opportunities for a single, unmarried guy whose imagination gets captured by U2/B2/AFSOC roles and the Pilot Physician Program. Obviously I'm not assuming I'd get any of those, but the opportunities seem more prevalent in AD world than in AFRC or NG. Getting a recruiter to deal with me as a prior enlisted guy has proven to be a pain in the ass...

So I am still finding a few AFRC and NG units that promise really unique opportunities e.g. CSAR, AFSOC, fighters and applying to every one in the country. 

Question for you all:

1) Am I correct in thinking that a lot of the AF's niche programs would be an uphill battle to apply for from NG/AFRC? It seems like a tough conversation to have with a unit that invested in someone at such a personalized level.

2) Any anecdotes about NG/AFRC pilots who have broken the mold of flying one week a month and working on the airlines? 

Edited March 14, 2023 by bs98

[Biff_T]

You're definitely on the right track to get picked up by someone, whether it's and active duty OTS slot or one in the ANG/AFRC.   

1.  I flew Hueys (all active duty) as a pilot.   That being said, there were a few non prior and prior enlisted guys who were going to fly in the ANG/AFRC doing CSAR.  You appear to be a sharp dude.   If they can do it, I bet you can as well.  

2.  There are definitely more than a few dudes who have broken that mold.   

Keep applying.  Maybe you can fly one of these?  

 

 

[bs98]

7 hours ago, Biff_T said:

You're definitely on the right track to get picked up by someone, whether it's and active duty OTS slot or one in the ANG/AFRC.   

1.  I flew Hueys (all active duty) as a pilot.   That being said, there were a few non prior and prior enlisted guys who were going to fly in the ANG/AFRC doing CSAR.  You appear to be a sharp dude.   If they can do it, I bet you can as well.  

2.  There are definitely more than a few dudes who have broken that mold.   

Keep applying.  Maybe you can fly one of these?  

 

 

Thanks for the encouragement and beautiful plane. My first thought was something AFSOC? U28’s and C12’s we’re my first love

[brabus]

21 hours ago, bs98 said:

My first choice might be active duty until someone can talk me out of it

I had a blast in my 11 years of AD, but I had a lot of good timing and luck with assignments and commanders. The guard has been phenomenal and much better than AD, even considering my admittedly good run in the AD. There is so much less BS in the guard, you know what you’re flying (vs. hoping it works out and you don’t have poor luck on assignment night), and it’s probably in a location you enjoy living.

My opinion is go guard until your age puts you at a disadvantage (late 20s), then go AD. 

21 hours ago, bs98 said:

Question for you all:

1) You’re correct, it’s going to be harder to do non-standard things in the ARC, but a common misconception is you’re “stuck” for a full career at one squadron doing the same thing.  There are absolutely opportunities to go do test, live in Europe, go back to UPT, change airframes/units, do a staff job, go to Weapons School, teach at Weapons School, etc. There’s a reserve B-2 squadron and I think there’s at least one or two U-2 reservist (someone correct me if I’m wrong on that). Point is a hell of a lot more “change it up” opportunity in the ARC than people think. 

2) That’s not the mold, just some people. Tons of dudes fly their ass off in the guard and don’t work for an airline. At least in the fighter world, you will be expected to give 5-7 days a month as a part timer. Most guys live local, so I’ve seen many part timers flying 10+ sorties a month. I can’t speak for other communities, but we are very far from the “one weekend a month” side of the guard. There’s also plenty of opportunity to stay full time if you don’t want another civ job - you can’t plan on it of course, but I’ve never seen a guy who wanted to be full time not be kept full time through one of many avenues.
 

 

[bs98]

5 minutes ago, brabus said:

I had a blast in my 11 years of AD, but I had a lot of good timing and luck with assignments and commanders. The guard has been phenomenal and much better than AD, even considering my admittedly good run in the AD. There is so much less BS in the guard, you know what you’re flying (vs. hoping it works out and you don’t have poor luck on assignment night), and it’s probably in a location you enjoy living.

My opinion is go guard until your age puts you at a disadvantage (late 20s), then go AD. 

1) You’re correct, it’s going to be harder to do non-standard things in the ARC, but a common misconception is you’re “stuck” for a full career at one squadron doing the same thing.  There are absolutely opportunities to go do test, live in Europe, go back to UPT, change airframes/units, do a staff job, go to Weapons School, teach at Weapons School, etc. There’s a reserve B-2 squadron and I think there’s at least one or two U-2 reservist (someone correct me if I’m wrong on that). Point is a hell of a lot more “change it up” opportunity in the ARC than people think. 

2) That’s not the mold, just some people. Tons of dudes fly their ass off in the guard and don’t work for an airline. At least in the fighter world, you will be expected to give 5-7 days a month as a part timer. Most guys live local, so I’ve seen many part timers flying 10+ sorties a month. I can’t speak for other communities, but we are very far from the “one weekend a month” side of the guard. There’s also plenty of opportunity to stay full time if you don’t want another civ job - you can’t plan on it of course, but I’ve never seen a guy who wanted to be full time not be kept full time through one of many avenues.
 

 

Thank you, this gives me a lot to think about. I just finished six years as an Army guardsman / guard bum and have seen the benefits of flexibility, but my previous experience for any request to do something in another state / component was “well you can send up your transfer packet to the general and see if they’ll let you go despite massive retention problems and your contractual obligation”…

granted, I could see that conversation going easier for a CPT than it did for enlisted me. 

[brabus]

And don’t compare the Army to the AF - things are done much differently.