Tinker AFB Witch Hunt

[HuggyU2]

On their official webpage, the Wing CC is listed after the senior enlisted advisor. 
Unusual. 
 

[Biff_T]

12 hours ago, HuggyU2 said:

On their official webpage, the Wing CC is listed after the senior enlisted advisor. 
Unusual. 
 

Or is it?  Lol

That Chief sure has a lot of ribbons.  

[Biff_T]

Do ABMs get to make the wx call?   How can they lead a flying wing without any idea what the wx "maximums" are?  

[dream big]

On 8/5/2023 at 7:21 PM, artvandelay43201 said:

It’s the 964 AACS. CC is an ABM. OG/CC is an ABM. WG/CC is an ABM. 

And here lies the problem 

[FourFans]

On 8/5/2023 at 12:21 PM, artvandelay43201 said:

It’s the 964 AACS. CC is an ABM. OG/CC is an ABM. WG/CC is an ABM. 

That is absolutely and in all imaginable ways depressing for everyone on that base.  Individuals who've never been responsible for so much as a flight meal order and letting them lead an entire wing.  Wow.

Edited August 10, 2023 by FourFans

[ClearedHot]

On 8/5/2023 at 12:21 PM, artvandelay43201 said:

It’s the 964 AACS. CC is an ABM. OG/CC is an ABM. WG/CC is an ABM. 

And they are all Tumbleweed.

How does a Wing/CC (and Patch at that), who started as an ABMer and looks to be mostly an on-time guy (maybe 1BPZ), have only senior ABM wings at 21 years of service?

[HossHarris]

37 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

And they are all Tumbleweed.

How does a Wing/CC (and Patch at that), who started as an ABMer and looks to be mostly an on-time guy (maybe 1BPZ), have only senior ABM wings at 21 years of service?

Knob polishing 

[Blue]

On 8/5/2023 at 12:21 PM, artvandelay43201 said:

It’s the 964 AACS. CC is an ABM. OG/CC is an ABM. WG/CC is an ABM. 

I'm old, and I also don't know much about AWACS.

But weren't all of the "Air Battle Manager" jobs in the back of an AWACS held by NCOs at one point?  And the mission was getting done with no issues.  However, somewhere along the way (1990s maybe) they decided to make them all rated officer positions?

Edited August 10, 2023 by Blue

[artvandelay43201]

8 hours ago, Blue said:

I'm old, and I also don't know much about AWACS.

But weren't all of the "Air Battle Manager" jobs in the back of an AWACS held by NCOs at one point?  And the mission was getting done with no issues.  However, somewhere along the way (1990s maybe) they decided to make them all rated officer positions?

There was a famous Black Hawk shoot down in 1994 from friendly fire in Northern Iraq due to the mistakes of many ABM’s. None of the ABM’s on the jet were rated officers at the time so the Air Force couldn’t punish them. Then they became rated and started wearing leather jackets and could command flying squadrons. 

[Danger41]

11 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

And they are all Tumbleweed.

How does a Wing/CC (and Patch at that), who started as an ABMer and looks to be mostly an on-time guy (maybe 1BPZ), have only senior ABM wings at 21 years of service?

I hate to admit that one of the first things I check in a bio is number of Air Medals a senior leader has. My thought being that those who have reached O-6 to Flag rank in current times were in their prime during GWOT and had ample opportunity to deploy. Not even based on heroic flying or anything but just being there and getting participation ribbons. 
 

Obviously exceptions exist (Eagle/Raptor dudes being a great example), but when I see AFSOC dudes with 1 Air Medal it really makes me wonder.

[tac airlifter]

4 hours ago, Danger41 said:

Obviously exceptions exist (Eagle/Raptor dudes being a great example), but when I see AFSOC dudes with 1 Air Medal it really makes me wonder.

There’s nothing to wonder about regarding a rated O-6 plus with less than 5 AMs: They actively worked their career path during a time of great need to avoid deployments; they are consequently unworthy to command.

AMs (minus SAAMs) are similar to tally marks on prison walls.  There’s only one way to earn them which is packing your shit up, leaving your family, and putting in time.  Yes it’s a participation trophy but that counts for something when you’re a leader.

Of note on Eagle dudes without them- I’ve met plenty who wanted so much to be part of the war they volunteered for Advisor gigs or MC12, etc.  If you were a rated aviator during the GWOT and wanted to fly in combat you could.  It’s that simple.

[GKinnear]

I agree with both @Danger41 and @tac airlifter, but a few years ago I started to ask myself 'what's the right number?' on AMs or AAMs?

I don't have a personal threshold, because some career paths, still hacking the mission, don't take you through multiple combat deployments.

The examples listed above, white jet / FTU tours, etc.

It's needs to be a balance...and while fuzzy, I know it when I see it skewed in one direction.

A flying Wing King in the modern Era with low single digits on AMs...yeah, that's a little 'Sus as the cool kids say

Sent from my SM-N976V using Baseops Network mobile app

[ClearedHot]

[Biff_T]

13 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

note on Eagle dudes without them- I’ve met plenty who wanted so much to be part of the war they volunteered for Advisor gigs or MC12, etc

There was a time in the Huey where you could be non vol'd for a non flying 365 to shit stan in your 18th year and some dude in the Squadron would get pissed (because they want to fight) and try and volunteer for it.  Ask me how I know.  Thanks "Sweet Baby Mayes"!  

[08Dawg]

21 hours ago, Danger41 said:

I hate to admit that one of the first things I check in a bio is number of Air Medals a senior leader has. My thought being that those who have reached O-6 to Flag rank in current times were in their prime during GWOT and had ample opportunity to deploy. Not even based on heroic flying or anything but just being there and getting participation ribbons. 
 

Obviously exceptions exist (Eagle/Raptor dudes being a great example), but when I see AFSOC dudes with 1 Air Medal it really makes me wonder.

There's a whole generation of Buff dudes/dudettes who did their Lt/Capt time doing six months on Guam at a stretch, and were on staff/IDE/whatever during the OIR days.  Like you said...obvious exceptions.  I will say, the jet getting blood on her beak again did wonders for the community, even if it was just playing ISIS whack-a-mole.  

[pawnman]

On 8/11/2023 at 1:47 AM, Danger41 said:

I hate to admit that one of the first things I check in a bio is number of Air Medals a senior leader has. My thought being that those who have reached O-6 to Flag rank in current times were in their prime during GWOT and had ample opportunity to deploy. Not even based on heroic flying or anything but just being there and getting participation ribbons. 
 

Obviously exceptions exist (Eagle/Raptor dudes being a great example), but when I see AFSOC dudes with 1 Air Medal it really makes me wonder.

I had an OG/CC in the B-1 who was missing during all of OEF/OIF. He was introduced at a formal function as having "over 100 combat hours".

For perspective, as a brand-new captain on my first deployment, I had 100 hours in my first month.

[Biff_T]

4 hours ago, pawnman said:

I had an OG/CC in the B-1 who was missing during all of OEF/OIF. He was introduced at a formal function as having "over 100 combat hours".

For perspective, as a brand-new captain on my first deployment, I had 100 hours in my first month.

Yeap.  Those dudes make me laugh.  They always seem to be extra bitter towards those who actually did the mission. Maybe when they see that a six year SrA has 10 more AMs than the 20 year O6, they'll let you guys stop wearing blues.  
 

Edit: Those guys always list every aircraft they “Flew” in their bios as well.   Example:  T-37,T38,C-5, F-16D (4 hours),B1 (5 hours) MC-130 (6 hours) , MH-53 (4 hours), Spirit Airlines (69 hours).   1 Air Medal.  10 bronze stars.  Lol

Edited August 12, 2023 by Biff_T
Fun

[brabus]

Spirit airlines on his bio, well by God that man needs to be a COCOM immediately!

[hindsight2020]

12 hours ago, 08Dawg said:

There's a whole generation of Buff dudes/dudettes who did their Lt/Capt time doing six months on Guam at a stretch, and were on staff/IDE/whatever during the OIR days.  Like you said...obvious exceptions.   

As I've told before here ...Tumon Bay was my Vietnam.

The irony of course is I've lost more coworkers and peers as an AETC warrior than my prior MWS equivalent did to combat. Statistically I've spent the lion's share of my indentured service in a more hazardous job than the one that was supposed to give me turkey shoot medals and permissive JDAM war stories. But they don't give out AMs for that... it's just called doing your f*ckin' job.

At the end of the day, 'Needs of the Air Force' was their stipulation, not mine. Which is a euphemistic way of saying:  FUPM.

#7305 #FUPM #TumonBay #PACAF #Eticket #TPstalls 

[hindsight2020]

47 minutes ago, brabus said:

Spirit airlines on his bio, well by God that man needs to be a COCOM immediately!

You joke, but you legacy soybois got nothing on some of these counterinsurgency vets at NK. To wit, summer of '21 in my hometown, all hell and pandemonium broke loose. I have it on 2nd hand account by mutual acquaintances to the people in question, a NK crew did in fact barricade themselves in the downstairs rooms at SJU and told to change out to civilian, straight up Benghazi style. State police did have to go into the terminal with about a platoon's worth and shut things down. Similar anecdotes of the event from FAs and gate agents are available.

So yeah, if I'm a linked-In warrior, you betcha I want to roll out with my hand on the shoulder of an NK guy on point who's done an exfil or two before. Getting to the Mouse in Orlando is no joke! 😅

/TC

 

[Biff_T]

22 hours ago, hindsight2020 said:

As I've told before here ...Tumon Bay was my Vietnam.

The irony of course is I've lost more coworkers and peers as an AETC warrior than my prior MWS equivalent did to combat. Statistically I've spent the lion's share of my indentured service in a more hazardous job than the one that was supposed to give me turkey shoot medals and permissive JDAM war stories. But they don't give out AMs for that... it's just called doing your f*ckin' job.

At the end of the day, 'Needs of the Air Force' was their stipulation, not mine. Which is a euphemistic way of saying:  FUPM.

#7305 #FUPM #TumonBay #PACAF #Eticket #TPstalls 

Somebody had to go to the G Spot lol.  I hope that place still exists.  

 

Yeah.  Training has taken more people I know than combat. 

Fly safe bros!

Edited August 13, 2023 by Biff_T

[uhhello]

20 minutes ago, Biff_T said:

Somebody had to go to the G Spot lol.  I hope that place still exists.  

 

Yeah.  Training has taking more people I know than combat. 

Fly safe bros!

Club USA was my introduction to 'real' strip clubs.  Eye opening.

[Biff_T]

5 minutes ago, uhhello said:

Club USA was my introduction to 'real' strip clubs.  Eye opening.

The only time I was ever late for showtime in my flying career was in Guam.  They had to get the maid to let the AC into my room. Lol. He was laughing, I was throwing things telling them I didn't want room service. My Chief Boom didn't see the humor.  He basically told me. "Biff" this is your one mulligan. We had a few other booms on that flight so it didn't leave the sqd.  Fucking Guam!!!!

[hindsight2020]

1 minute ago, Biff_T said:

The only time I was ever late for showtime in my flying career was in Guam.  They had to get the maid to let the AC into my room. Lol. He was laughing, I was throwing things telling them I didn't want room service. My Chief Boom didn't see the humor.  He basically told me. "Biff" this is your one mulligan. We had a few other booms on that flight so it didn't leave the sqd.  Fucking Guam!!!!

Hell, nobody was habitually on time during the PGUA campaign. The DO was late too; well, that's because we Amish-relocated his rental car to the top of one them grass covered cement pillboxes that lined the parking lot walls on the flintstone house buildings at ol' Andersen.

Shit officially got real when they couldn't find enough navs to fill the flagpole mission cuz half the squadron was down in Tumon getting their scuba cert...on a Thursday. Fair trade for a "deployment's" worth of losing your mortgage payment to $3.50/day per diem fvckery, but I digress. And lest I be accused of stolen valor, I disclose I fought that war via TDY, which netted me the full $121/day and Outrigger non-A letter. Hate the game, not da playa type of thing. Or as my ANG brethren would say, #GuardHarder 😄

24 minutes ago, uhhello said:

Club USA was my introduction to 'real' strip clubs.  Eye opening.

You mean post-flight debrief? That was primary, standard....it's right there in the expeditionary IFG... 

Honorable mention to Rick's Cabaret off Calmont Ave in Fort Worth,TX. Debrief standard for the milk-run night Ranger sorties, for those familiar with Barkatraz Ops. Parking the steely in the back parking lot and unscrewing the license plate, ah the good ol days.

One of those CONUS family man / PACAF degenerate fvcks is now an AFRC one star. Still remember 2-man corpse-carrying his alcohol poisoned #ss to the Qs in the most LO way possible (which is to say, poorly). Folding his legs and chucking (my kid's gen calls it 'yeeting' now) the room key behind us as the door slammed shut. That was about what HHQ sortie debriefs looked like at ol Club USA. Talk about "you too could be the best of what's left". Usual suspect prob doesn't remember it... but we all do. And that's all that matters to me, "General". 

There were 3 kinds of PACAF men during the CENTCOM potato peddling days that were the Lost Decade: 1) those who made it through Normandy without getting mowed by the machine gun nest, 2) those who didn't make it... and 3) the liars who swear they weren't there. 😄 . Make no mistake, you won't find it on the IEU list, but we all had it.

 

#PACAF4Life #IknowWhatYouDid

 

[SocialD]

Oh man, you guys are bringing up some memories.  PACOM TSP20ican'tremember.  AF couldn't decide where to put us for our TSP and a last minute change meant we were headed to Guam.  No availability on-base for an entire Expeditionary Fighter Squadron so we ended up at the Hyatt Regency, directly across the road Porky's/The Viking.  $3.50/day bs is for chumps!  Every single Friday was 8-ship quick climbs (became a base event with nice crowds by the end) to either fly BFM, ACM or DCA.  Beer light on at 1100 for a quick academic session and off to the base golf course at noon.  Drunken golf till sun down...lots of damaged golf carts, sand traps and trees, I'm really not sure how we never got kicked off that golf course.  Push downtown for standard buffonery to shut down the after hours bars. Tiptoeing out of hotel rooms I shouldn't have been in, pass out with the balcony door open listening to the waves crash into shore.  Wake up to scuba/snorkel/hike, beach bar, rinse and repeat the previous night...for 4 fucking months!  Checked out as best friends with the hotel manager/staff, 200k points, Hyatt Platinum status and a severely damaged liver.  It was certainly one for the ages!

 

Standard AF act, our AOS tankers kept getting taken for "HHQ tasking," so we kept getting delayed.  As much fun as we were having, it was time to go.  So Guard standard, we reached out to the bro network and made it happen internally.  The tanker unit from our state was in town and had a two tankers headed home at the same time.  Since a lot of us are college buddies, a plan was hashed out, likely while having drinks at the beach bar on Gunn beach.  They worked their network for us and found a Fairchild Guard tanker to get the last 4-ship home a few days later.  First 8 jets made it home without a hitch.  My 4-ship left a few days later and ended up stuck in Hawaii for days waiting for that tanker to get fixed.  They took as as far as they could (around Durango) before they had to head home, which meant a night in Denver for the night (more Hyatt points)...but thanks to that crew, great dudes!  Apparently we ruffled quite a few feathers up at ACC or AOS for making it happen, but fuck'em, tankers were headed East anyway and we likely save the AF tons of cash/headache.  Some people just get pissed when you do their job better than them.  I know, I know, "we don't see the big picture..."   Good times.