Careers Outside of the Military?

[ChiccinTendies]

To make a long story short, my childhood dream was to be a fighter pilot like the rest of the wannabees here. I'm currently a mechanical engineering student hoping to transfer to a school offering aerospace engineering, and earlier this year I was discharged from Navy boot camp (reserve air crew contract) for requesting a religious accommodation for the Covid shot. I have nothing against the people who got the shot, but this post is mainly for those who didn't get it or regret having done so.

What do you recommend young conservative Christian men do now that military aviation is basically off the table for them?

I've looked into civilian test piloting and other "non-standard" areas of civilian aviation, but they all seem like extremely cost-prohibitive and low-paying career paths, at least for those with no prior military experience. I just don't want to grow up to be that guy who could never scratch that itch with his career, and so foregoes spending time with his family for his hobbies instead of being a good father or husband. I like physics a lot, but a desk job doesn't really warrant the amount of torture that engineering coursework puts one through, at least for me personally. If I was in it for the money, I would switch my major to computer engineering or computer science.

I'm just looking for some general advice or guidance. If you have some political attack or snarky remark, I would suggest moving on, as it'll be a waste of time for the both of us. If this isn't the right forum to post this, mods please let me know and I will delete.

To all the pilots out there grieving the decline of the West, I salute you. Thank you for your service, even if we're not 100% sure what that entails anymore.

[Biff_T]

18 hours ago, ChiccinTendies said:

What do you recommend young conservative Christian men do now that military aviation is basically off the table for them?

I just don't want to grow up to be that guy who could never scratch that itch with his career

I'm just looking for some general advice or guidance. If you have some political attack or snarky remark, I would suggest moving on, as it'll be a waste of time for the both of us. 

I recommend going to SE Asia or Eastern Europe and meeting a few nice ladies for starters.  

You will get an itch to scratch.  

Was that snarky enough?

There are other piloting jobs outside of the military but they may ask you to take the shot as well.   If you hold off a few years the shot will more than likely be less politicized and you could try to join again.  

The military makes people get shots.  Even useless ones.   They made me go 20 years without hitting the crack pipe.   Some people can't make it that long with those silly rules.  Cough, cough,  Hunter B.  USN.  

Political enough?

 

Welcome to the internet.  Lol

 

[BashiChuni]

19 hours ago, ChiccinTendies said:

To make a long story short, my childhood dream was to be a fighter pilot like the rest of the wannabees here.

I'm just looking for some general advice or guidance. If you have some political attack or snarky remark, I would suggest moving on, as it'll be a waste of time for the both of us.

 

do you actually think this will work? thanks for the laugh

[FourFans]

19 hours ago, ChiccinTendies said:

To make a long story short, my childhood dream was to be a fighter pilot like the rest of the wannabees here. I'm currently a mechanical engineering student hoping to transfer to a school offering aerospace engineering, and earlier this year I was discharged from Navy boot camp (reserve air crew contract) for requesting a religious accommodation for the Covid shot. I have nothing against the people who got the shot, but this post is mainly for those who didn't get it or regret having done so.

What do you recommend young conservative Christian men do now that military aviation is basically off the table for them?

I've looked into civilian test piloting and other "non-standard" areas of civilian aviation, but they all seem like extremely cost-prohibitive and low-paying career paths, at least for those with no prior military experience. I just don't want to grow up to be that guy who could never scratch that itch with his career, and so foregoes spending time with his family for his hobbies instead of being a good father or husband. I like physics a lot, but a desk job doesn't really warrant the amount of torture that engineering coursework puts one through, at least for me personally. If I was in it for the money, I would switch my major to computer engineering or computer science.

I'm just looking for some general advice or guidance. If you have some political attack or snarky remark, I would suggest moving on, as it'll be a waste of time for the both of us. If this isn't the right forum to post this, mods please let me know and I will delete.

To all the pilots out there grieving the decline of the West, I salute you. Thank you for your service, even if we're not 100% sure what that entails anymore.

Lots to unpack there, but I'll give it a shot.  One conservative Christian man to another...in front of everyone.   

A: The covid shot requirement does not take military aviation off the table for you.  It might right now, but not forever.  Eventually either the military will withdraw the requirement, or there will be another option of non-stem cell based vaccination (like an actually researched and studied non-emergency-use vaccine should be).  It all depends on your basis for rejection.  I, for one, had no defensible basis, as I happily and ignorantly received 8 rounds of the anthrax vaccine without asking twice, as I was young and stupid.  That proved to be 100% risk/0% reward.  Long story short, make sure you sincerely understand your basis for refusal, and that it's not just under the "I will not comply" category just because you don't like it.  That's a childish defense based on ignorant emotion.  If you have a sincere objection based on logic, stand firm on it, and find another way to your dream. 

If you say "it was my dream..." and hold that with the same hand as "I won't get the shot because..." and expect sympathy, you'll get none...at all...especially here.  No one is stepping on your dream.  You are holding a personal belief higher than your dream, and that's no one's choice but yours.  Pick one.

2: Decide now what precisely that 'itch' is.  If it's to fly, there are absolutely no all-denying barriers to you.  Serious obstacles? Yes, but nothing completely stopping you.  Life will suck.  Pay will be low.  Hours will blow.  For a while.  Make up your mind that you want to fly, then find a way. 
There. Are. Many.  Even from a military background, I've yet to meet two guys with the same exact path.  From the civil side, there are innumerable ways to end up in an airplane.  It will heavily depend on where you're willing to live and what lifestyle you're willing to accept to get to your desired end state.  Even then, the end state will change by the time you get there.  Accept that as fact and your life will be easier.

If you are a family man, and you want to be a pilot, your family life will suffer to some degree or another.  Schedules suck.  You will be away from home.  You will miss birthdays, anniversaries, holidays, etc.   But you were wanting a military life...so you should have been ok with that, right?  Because military life is like that, only worse: you're gone longer, to worse places, for less money, while leaving your family is bad locations away from family, and oh yeah, people may be actively trying to kill you. 

Decide WITH YOUR FAMILY what level of life style you're willing to accept, then get to grinding. (If you exclude your bride from that decision, you will end up divorced)

D: A 'standard' civilian track can take as little as 3 years to be in the right seat of a big jet.  One track: earn your CFI, teach your ass off in little airplanes, get hired by a regional/cargo feeder, then get hired by a lower tier ACMI...OR go to an aviation academy like what United is starting...OR go fly a sky tractor crop dusting...OR go fly king-airs for CBP...OR work to get hired by a fractional...OR...fly bush cargo in Anchorage...OR...the list goes on.  Get to studying.  As much of a dumpster fire as AirlinePilotCenter forums are, the other side of that website is pretty informational, and you can find some pretty good data in the forums if you're willing to wade through the BS.

Decide that no job is beneath you, and you'll be fine.  If you choose the millennial attitude that some jobs are just too hard or too underpaid or too dirty, then yeah, your 'itch' will never be scratched, and you will be forever limited.  If you choose that road, that's no one's fault but your own.  If they say you need a vaccine to get the job, and you quit looking, that's your fault, not theirs.

In short: Nut up or Shut up.  There is no better time to get into aviation.  Decide what you will or won't do, then get to work.

P.S. I dis-recommend SE Asia.  That results in a different kind of 'itch' that I've heard never goes away.

Edited October 2, 2022 by FourFans130

[Biff_T]

Fourfans nailed it (sts)!   Not a religious "man" (is that hate speech?) by any means but I respect your religious beliefs as I do with all things people hold dearly to them.  I too got that deliciously filling series of Anthrax shots and others. I remember small pox vaccines in Feb 2003.  There were bandaids (and jellyfish) all over the place lol.  The horror.  

In the military you may be asked to do things that make you lose sleep at night.  Think about that and the shot may be less of a sin.   

[Homestar]

23 hours ago, ChiccinTendies said:

What do you recommend young conservative Christian men do now that military aviation is basically off the table for them?

Are you serious?  Jesus is sick of your bullshit.

[yellerfever]

23 hours ago, ChiccinTendies said:

To all the pilots out there grieving the decline of the West, I salute you. Thank you for your service, even if we're not 100% sure what that entails anymore.

I know exactly what my service entails. America is bigger than a president, political party, or vaccine.

Some people participate and actively work hard to make the military and their country better.

Other people quit, have a victim complex, and cry about it from the sidelines.

[Day Man]

On 10/1/2022 at 2:50 PM, ChiccinTendies said:

What do you recommend young conservative Christian men do now that military aviation is basically off the table for them?

have you considered swindling other young conservative christian men?

I hear it's pretty lucrative...

[HossHarris]

Faking a vax card is not particularly difficult ….

[Majestik Møøse]

They’re also going to make you get a shit ton of other vaccines. Also you may be ordered to fly until your death if it comes down to it. Or, if we’re all out of planes, you may be ordered to pick up a rifle and fight until you die defending your base. Or, even worse, you may be the one issuing those orders. Or maybe the orders are to kill a million civilians - including women, children, and other Christians - using nuclear weapons, which will likely cause a retaliatory attack that kills your family and friends. All for a war started by an old man that half the country doesn’t agree with politically.

I guess you’re cool with all those things. But getting the COVID vaccine, now that’s a bridge too far for a Christian.

So if you’re quitting because you don’t want to get a shot for political reasons (religious reasons? nah), then I say adios and thanks for making the decision early. Wouldn’t want to find out about it after you’ve wasted years of everyone’s effort and money getting you CMR.

Good luck in civilian life, I’m sure you’ll find an airplane job if you work hard enough. Please pay your taxes.

[Chuck17]

Everytime Im about to quit this site because I think Im old/out of touch a thread like this comes along and Baseops TOTALLY REDEEMS ITSELF....

This files nicely alongside the "I almost served..." stories I've heard... Good for a laugh.

Chuck

[Biff_T]

14 hours ago, Day Man said:

have you considered swindling other young conservative christian men?

I hear it's pretty lucrative...

Jesus thanks you for buying me another G-6.  Lol

[ChiccinTendies]

On 10/2/2022 at 12:42 PM, FourFans130 said:

Lots to unpack there, but I'll give it a shot.  One conservative Christian man to another...in front of everyone.   

A: The covid shot requirement does not take military aviation off the table for you.  It might right now, but not forever.  Eventually either the military will withdraw the requirement, or there will be another option of non-stem cell based vaccination (like an actually researched and studied non-emergency-use vaccine should be).  It all depends on your basis for rejection.  I, for one, had no defensible basis, as I happily and ignorantly received 8 rounds of the anthrax vaccine without asking twice, as I was young and stupid.  That proved to be 100% risk/0% reward.  Long story short, make sure you sincerely understand your basis for refusal, and that it's not just under the "I will not comply" category just because you don't like it.  That's a childish defense based on ignorant emotion.  If you have a sincere objection based on logic, stand firm on it, and find another way to your dream. 

If you say "it was my dream..." and hold that with the same hand as "I won't get the shot because..." and expect sympathy, you'll get none...at all...especially here.  No one is stepping on your dream.  You are holding a personal belief higher than your dream, and that's no one's choice but yours.  Pick one.

2: Decide now what precisely that 'itch' is.  If it's to fly, there are absolutely no all-denying barriers to you.  Serious obstacles? Yes, but nothing completely stopping you.  Life will suck.  Pay will be low.  Hours will blow.  For a while.  Make up your mind that you want to fly, then find a way. 
There. Are. Many.  Even from a military background, I've yet to meet two guys with the same exact path.  From the civil side, there are innumerable ways to end up in an airplane.  It will heavily depend on where you're willing to live and what lifestyle you're willing to accept to get to your desired end state.  Even then, the end state will change by the time you get there.  Accept that as fact and your life will be easier.

If you are a family man, and you want to be a pilot, your family life will suffer to some degree or another.  Schedules suck.  You will be away from home.  You will miss birthdays, anniversaries, holidays, etc.   But you were wanting a military life...so you should have been ok with that, right?  Because military life is like that, only worse: you're gone longer, to worse places, for less money, while leaving your family is bad locations away from family, and oh yeah, people may be actively trying to kill you. 

Decide WITH YOUR FAMILY what level of life style you're willing to accept, then get to grinding. (If you exclude your bride from that decision, you will end up divorced)

D: A 'standard' civilian track can take as little as 3 years to be in the right seat of a big jet.  One track: earn your CFI, teach your ass off in little airplanes, get hired by a regional/cargo feeder, then get hired by a lower tier ACMI...OR go to an aviation academy like what United is starting...OR go fly a sky tractor crop dusting...OR go fly king-airs for CBP...OR work to get hired by a fractional...OR...fly bush cargo in Anchorage...OR...the list goes on.  Get to studying.  As much of a dumpster fire as AirlinePilotCenter forums are, the other side of that website is pretty informational, and you can find some pretty good data in the forums if you're willing to wade through the BS.

Decide that no job is beneath you, and you'll be fine.  If you choose the millennial attitude that some jobs are just too hard or too underpaid or too dirty, then yeah, your 'itch' will never be scratched, and you will be forever limited.  If you choose that road, that's no one's fault but your own.  If they say you need a vaccine to get the job, and you quit looking, that's your fault, not theirs.

In short: Nut up or Shut up.  There is no better time to get into aviation.  Decide what you will or won't do, then get to work.

P.S. I dis-recommend SE Asia.  That results in a different kind of 'itch' that I've heard never goes away.

Thank you for the response. I appreciate you taking the time out. I will try my best to get a response out soon.

Edited October 15, 2022 by ChiccinTendies

[herkbier]

1 hour ago, ChiccinTendies said:

Thank you for the response. I appreciate you taking the time out. I will try my best to get out a response out soon.

If you’re looking for exciting flying.. maybe consider Alaska bush pilot or something like a Missionary pilot in Africa. I see job postings for the latter very so often. 
 

Flying a Caravan or Porter in sub-Saharan Africa is just like flying a Herk, just a different set of customers.

[Biff_T]

12 hours ago, herkbier said:

If you’re looking for exciting flying.. maybe consider Alaska bush pilot or something like a Missionary pilot in Africa. I see job postings for the latter very so often. 
 

Flying a Caravan or Porter in sub-Saharan Africa is just like flying a Herk, just a different set of customers.

Or maybe even heli skiing.  Nothing quite like landing a Jet Ranger on an isolated mountain in Alaska.  Better hope you don't lose an engine!  

[BFM this]

4 hours ago, Biff_T said:

Or maybe even heli skiing.  Nothing quite like landing a Jet Ranger on an isolated mountain in Alaska.  Better hope you don't lose an engine!  

Or have a set of massive balls with the skillz to back it up.

 

 

[ChiccinTendies]

On 10/2/2022 at 1:03 PM, Biff_T said:

Fourfans nailed it (sts)!   Not a religious "man" (is that hate speech?) by any means but I respect your religious beliefs as I do with all things people hold dearly to them.  I too got that deliciously filling series of Anthrax shots and others. I remember small pox vaccines in Feb 2003.  There were bandaids (and jellyfish) all over the place lol.  The horror.  

In the military you may be asked to do things that make you lose sleep at night.  Think about that and the shot may be less of a sin.   

I know this is a long time later, but this logic led me to believe I have no place in the post-Vietnam US military or any of its defense companies. I do not mind killing evil men. I also do not mind killing young brainwashed men doing the work of evil men, if that means preventing a much worse evil. I DO mind destroying a third-world country in the name of petrodollar or some geopolitical power structure. Currently deciding right now whether or not I should drop out and get my CFI ASAP, or tough it out to please friends and family and wait to get it post-college (I'll be around 26-27 then).

[ChiccinTendies]

On 10/2/2022 at 4:55 PM, yellerfever said:

I know exactly what my service entails. America is bigger than a president, political party, or vaccine.

Some people participate and actively work hard to make the military and their country better.

Other people quit, have a victim complex, and cry about it from the sidelines.

IQ is built on pattern recognition. When an evil pattern is recognized, either you can fall in line or you can rebel. You can say I quit all you want, but you're not the one that got chewed out by several handfuls of RDCs and legal and medical petty officers for standing up for what you believe in. I did that. I had to spend over a month in Separations with REAL quitters, delinquents, and crybabies. I got an honorable discharge because they knew how much of a shit storm it would be giving people like me general or dishonorable. You can call it crying from the sidelines, but have you ever asked yourself what you are prepared to give up your life for? Are gay rights and Israel really worth it?

[ChiccinTendies]

On 10/2/2022 at 4:29 PM, Homestar said:

Are you serious?  Jesus is sick of your bullshit.

People who say this have no idea who Jesus is.

[ChiccinTendies]

On 10/3/2022 at 9:04 AM, Chuck17 said:

Everytime Im about to quit this site because I think Im old/out of touch a thread like this comes along and Baseops TOTALLY REDEEMS ITSELF....

This files nicely alongside the "I almost served..." stories I've heard... Good for a laugh.

Chuck

I actually went to boot camp. If I wanted an excuse, I wouldn't have gone through the torture of getting held in Separations. But that doesn't fit into narrow worldview, so you'll just ignore it. That's ok, boomer.

Edited June 30, 2023 by ChiccinTendies

[ChiccinTendies]

On 10/2/2022 at 9:01 PM, HossHarris said:

Faking a vax card is not particularly difficult ….

Lying is also not particularly difficult, in general. Sometimes it gets to a point where you're telling yourself and others so many lies in order to have something happen, that you realize that what you're trying to make happen for yourself is for the people who are ignorant enough to not know the truth. There's more than just this life. I decided I would act like it.

[ChiccinTendies]

On 10/3/2022 at 12:52 AM, Majestik Møøse said:

They’re also going to make you get a shit ton of other vaccines. Also you may be ordered to fly until your death if it comes down to it. Or, if we’re all out of planes, you may be ordered to pick up a rifle and fight until you die defending your base. Or, even worse, you may be the one issuing those orders. Or maybe the orders are to kill a million civilians - including women, children, and other Christians - using nuclear weapons, which will likely cause a retaliatory attack that kills your family and friends. All for a war started by an old man that half the country doesn’t agree with politically.

I guess you’re cool with all those things. But getting the COVID vaccine, now that’s a bridge too far for a Christian.

So if you’re quitting because you don’t want to get a shot for political reasons (religious reasons? nah), then I say adios and thanks for making the decision early. Wouldn’t want to find out about it after you’ve wasted years of everyone’s effort and money getting you CMR.

Good luck in civilian life, I’m sure you’ll find an airplane job if you work hard enough. Please pay your taxes.

The way you frame it makes everyone in the military seem like either a moron or a monster. If you really believe this, why are you serving?

[SurelySerious]

There’s nothing better than an eight month delay for serious responses like these.

[Biff_T]

15 hours ago, ChiccinTendies said:

I know this is a long time later, but this logic led me to believe I have no place in the post-Vietnam US military or any of its defense companies. I do not mind killing evil men. I also do not mind killing young brainwashed men doing the work of evil men, if that means preventing a much worse evil. I DO mind destroying a third-world country in the name of petrodollar or some geopolitical power structure. Currently deciding right now whether or not I should drop out and get my CFI ASAP, or tough it out to please friends and family and wait to get it post-college (I'll be around 26-27 then).

Most places where you find gainful employment as pilot are going to make you play some sort of "game".  The military makes you play more. 

People who have not been to war always say they dont have a problem killing.  It will have an impact on your life, whether you killed bad guys or couldn’t recover that one guy because of the weather.   Being responsible for others lives is a huge burden.  But for me, I took pride helping my brothers in arms come home or helping someone on a bad night.  

You can teach a monkey to fly a Cessna.  Flying military aircraft takes a different mindset than being a regular old PPL aviation god.  

Good luck.  

[nsplayr]

8 months later…”Yea, well I had sex with your wife!”