B-17 down @ Wings Over Dallas Airshow

[StoleIt]

https://www.dallasnews.com/news/2022/11/12/plane-crash-reported-during-air-show-at-dallas-executive-airport/

 

 

Doesn't look good, but holding out hope some people got out.

Edit: P-63 Kingcobra looked to have hit the B-17 in the aft fuselage.

Edited November 12, 2022 by StoleIt

[12xu2a3x3]

that has to be texas raiders

[kaputt]

Here’s the video, ignore the screen shot of the airliner. 
 

Really tough to watch. 

[ClearedHot]

13 minutes ago, 12xu2a3x3 said:

that has to be texas raiders

Indeed.  Horrible...Prayers to the families.

[ClearedHot]

Another angle.

 

[DirkDiggler]

Damn that’s terrible, thoughts out for the families.

[Prosuper]

Reminds me of the Pope midair when a F-16 collides with a C-130 in the pattern, the F-16 crashes into a parked C-141 loading paratroopers, many dead and horribly burned. Historical note, during WW2 this was a common occurrence over England when huge number of bombers were forming up on their way to Germany. Been up close and personal with that B-17 and the crew having many conversations with them plus helping them wrench. My thoughts with their families and the foundation that kept it flying. 

Edited November 12, 2022 by Prosuper
content

[GreenArc]

Really, really awful stuff.

We had just finished a P-51 ride in Gunfighter for my dad and were headed to a post-flight lunch when we saw the news hit—our hearts dropped out of us and it’s been a very solemn ride back home.

The CAF folks are such wonderful people, and they treated us like royalty through our flight experience. My deepest condolences to their families, as well as my most fervent prayers for them.

[hindsight2020]

Flying B-17s were already on legal palliative care due to insurance unavailability. Even this being the fault of the cobra pilot, it might put the final nail in the coffin of a lot of these larger experimental-exhibition-carve out relics. Just like Kobe and the 737 max, when it comes to insurance for GA, we all get to wear diapers when one shits their pants.

The second debris landed on a public high-throughput freeway, that's when I knew this wasn't going to be just another seasonal black eye for the sector. This one might be worse in the aggregate than the Collings one, mainly due to the crash footprint, time will tell.

 

[Blue]

5 minutes ago, hindsight2020 said:

Flying B-17s were already on legal palliative care due to insurance unavailability. Even this being the fault of the cobra pilot, it might put the final nail in the coffin of a lot of these larger experimental-exhibition-carve out relics.

Never thought about the insurance aspect of CAF Warbirds, but have to wonder what kind of insurance they carry (if at all), and what it costs.

[Biff_T]

That's hard to watch.  Prayers for all involved.  

[Tank]

Flight is freedom in its purest form,
To dance with the clouds which follow a storm;

To roll and glide, to wheel and spin,
To feel the joy that swells within;

To leave the earth with its troubles and fly,
And know the warmth of a clear spring sky;

Then back to earth at the end of a day,
Released from the tensions which melted away.

Should my end come while I am in flight,
Whether brightest day or darkest night;

Spare me your pity and shrug off the pain,
Secure in the knowledge that I’d do it again;

For each of us is created to die,
And within me I know,
I was born to fly.

— Gary Claude Stoker

 

(copied from another site)

[arg]

Hard to judge the depth of field but but looks like the wreckage almost hit that yellow biplane that just landed.

 

[hindsight2020]

Big optical illusion. Wreckage was closer to hitting traffic on the freeway, than aircraft on the runway.

In fairness, that too is a good thing in that it didn't do the former either btw. Otherwise it truly would be good night irene for the volunteer-dependent experimental carve out warbird flying outfits. I'd put money on that, knowing what does and doesn't make the FAA pick up their one-hammer-all-nails, petty functionary asses from up their banker's hour GS-13 desks.

Some folks on the inside baseball side of this dumpster fire of a hobby, fear the plan that has been mulled for decades, i.e that of imposing de facto part 135 impositions on these experimental-ETP letter outfits, may finally materialize as a result of this mess. Which as I've already pointed out, would be exit right for everybody involved, as volunteer-dependent organizations with little in the way of insurance self-sufficiency otherwise. In non-airline land, insurance rules the roost, not the FAA.

[HuggyU2]

I wish Hindsight was wrong, but he's not.  I fear the long-term repercussions from this event are going to be significant for the warbird and airshow communities.  

FYI, there has not been a US airshow performer mishap that has killed a spectator since 1954.  US airshow rules are actually pretty well written.  For example, the 1988 Ramstein Airshow disaster occurred on a maneuver that wouldn't be allowed in the US.  

And before someone reminds me that 10 spectators died in the Reno crash, keep in mind that was "air racing", and falls under a totally different set of rules and procedures than airshows.  

[BashiChuni]

He’s a drama queen, but not wrong that hindsight fella…

[M2]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/texas-airshow-victims-shared-a-passion-for-flight/ar-AA146lcm

[Vito]

 On a UPT Nav cross country, Jan 1987. We parked our T-38 next to the “Texas Raider” a few older gents came by asking for a tour of the -38, and then reciprocated and let us wander around inside the Texas Raider. They even let me climb up on the wing to take this photo.

RIP

Edited November 21, 2022 by Vito

[arg]

 

[BFM this]

Watched that and had an immediate "GODDAMNIT!" reaction.

Then I reflected: there really wasn't a possible outcome where the root cause wasn't going to elicit anything other than that gut reaction.  Perfectly flyable airplanes, on a great flying day, should have been on a walk-in-the-park plan.

Nickel...

[RegularJoe]

On 11/13/2022 at 8:11 PM, HuggyU2 said:

 

And before someone reminds me that 10 spectators died in the Reno crash, keep in mind that was "air racing", and falls under a totally different set of rules and procedures than airshows.  

I thought it was interesting that the NTSB report list this as "Air racing/Air show event" I don't think that was an accidental typo.

[nunya]

47 minutes ago, RegularJoe said:

I thought it was interesting that the NTSB report list this as "Air racing/Air show event" I don't think that was an accidental typo.

I don't think it's as nefarious as it might seem. Air Race/Show is simply an established category of "Purpose of Flight" under General Aviation Operations. It's likely as innocuous as the investigator checking boxes on his iPad and this is the one that best fit.

 

[Prozac]

22 hours ago, arg said:

 

Question for the warbird/air show types here: What kind of experience/training/certification is required to be an air boss at an event like this? 

[GrndPndr]

Hi, notanexpert here, I have a question...

To me, it looks like we should be asking how much formation experience one should have before attempting what we saw (join)?

[brabus]

My completely uninformed guess is the guy had thousands of hours if he’s flying aircraft like that. I have over 2k hours flying fighters, and only last year I damn near hit someone - misprioritizing a fast rejoin over a safe “it’s not going to happen within these tight time constraints” decision and just not doing it. I’ve done thousands of rejoins, tons of experience…task misprioritization and pressure to “get it done” is a real thing at all levels of flying experience.