College Football

[ecugringo]

1 hour ago, kaputt said:

The college football post season is a scam. Always has been frankly. The poll era, BCS, 4 team playoff, and the upcoming 12 team playoff are all scams based on beauty contests and money. The irony is the old systems actually allowed more outsiders to flirt with national prominence than the current playoff scheme.  
 

There is a reason the NFL has a defined, record based, system to make the playoffs. If Mahomes breaks his leg before the playoffs, the but the Chiefs have the record to make it, they’re in. No question about it. 
 

Hell, every other level of college football has a well structured playoff that actually rewards a season of success. This whole “committee” thing is bullshit. 
 

Then pile on the disaster that is NIL and transfer portal, and college football is on a path to self destruction. It’s just that the football factories and TV networks haven’t realized it yet. 
 

If you’re going to watch people get paid to play football, might as well watch the NFL where there is a salary cap, trade rules, and a real playoff. 
 

Signed - Former die hard college football fan 

Top players were always getting paid.

Bama pulls more revenue for tv and ncaa.

 

[HeloDude]

10 minutes ago, VMFA187 said:

@HeloDude That was a question. 

Why play football?  Well, in the end, it’s a game, isn’t it?  I enjoy playing games and watching games—it’s a form of entertainment.  As for why the college players play, I imagine they do it because they enjoy playing the game, they get some/all of their school paid for, and they’re also hoping they can play at the next level and make some serious money.  I believe playing sports also teaches valuable skills about how to be on a team, hardwork, discipline, etc…though I don’t think the vast majority of us need to be collegiate or professional athletes to learn some of those important life skills (grade and highschool work).

But if people can’t see that this is all a form of entertainment then I don’t know what to tell you.  I know plenty of people who don’t watch/engage in sports of any kind and they find joy in other ways.

[GKinnear]

2 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

 I believe playing sports also teaches valuable skills about how to be on a team, hardwork, discipline, etc…

But that hard work and discipline doesn't matter if the on-field record doesn't.

I think it's becoming it obvious neither of us will be swayed by the other's arguments, we'll agree to disagree and move on.

 

And since this is my last post on the 2023 CFB Playoffs, I'll leave off with what @Rainman once posted that applies here:

1)  Life isn't fair

2)  Timing is everything

3)  Bloom where you're planted

and

4)  Boo Corrigan can get fucked.

[ClearedHot]

One thing is for certain, Travis Jordan has to be the Heisman winner...He is obviously the best player in football because they dropped an undefeated power five conference champion because he was injured.

[kaputt]

38 minutes ago, ecugringo said:

Top players were always getting paid.

Bama pulls more revenue for tv and ncaa.

 

You're kidding yourself if you think the way players are getting paid today is anything even remotely similar to any shady, back room, under the table deals that used to go on. Johnny Manziel got $30,000 in a suitcase. Some players today are getting $1-2 million, if not $6-10 million for skill position guys.

But only a few schools have the donor base and resources to come up with these "endorsements" that pay these kids. Most college kids, even the good ones, don't have national name or face recognition. Yeah a couple get a Nissan, Dr. Pepper, or T Mobile commercial; but most are getting fed money from school connected donors/businesses that are nothing more than a thinly disguised pay to play scheme. Their name, image, likeness is actually worth nothing, its simply their presence on the field that matters. That's pay to play, not NIL. 

It's completely unchecked free agency; a wildfire fed further by the transfer portal. The backroom stuff that used to go on is nothing in comparison to what's happening today to try and get kids to come play for certain schools. 

You may ethically be okay with the money moving around, and the Supreme Court backs that up. But its still going to destroy major college football. Road to hell, it's usually paved with good intentions. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by kaputt
typos

[VMFA187]

48 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

Well, I guess the committee thought differently.  Like I said, I think it’s kind of messed up that an undefeated team doesn’t get in, but the job of the committee wasn’t to automatically put in an undefeated team.

You thought the committee was “paid” differently. There were two teams who were about to be or are in the B1G, and a team that was about to be in the SEC. And they “got” one who is IN the SEC. Never before has a team gone from 8 to 4 and a team who won the championship and was undefeated dropped out of the top 4.
 

ESPN owns the ACC contact for pennies. Hence why Clemson and FSU have been trying to get out of the GoR. I understand you don’t understand what is happening, it hasn’t been important to you, but money is why this happened despite results on the field. The ACC IS a garbage conference, (who beat the SEC soundly), but our contract doesn’t allow us to compete financially with other contenders. And we ARE a contender. We’d beat OSU with our QB3. Write it the fuck down.

How would you feel if an undefeated OSU was left out of the playoffs.

[VMFA187]

1 hour ago, HeloDude said:

Why play football?  Well, in the end, it’s a game, isn’t it?  I enjoy playing games and watching games—it’s a form of entertainment.  As for why the college players play, I imagine they do it because they enjoy playing the game, they get some/all of their school paid for, and they’re also hoping they can play at the next level and make some serious money.  I believe playing sports also teaches valuable skills about how to be on a team, hardwork, discipline, etc…though I don’t think the vast majority of us need to be collegiate or professional athletes to learn some of those important life skills (grade and highschool work).

But if people can’t see that this is all a form of entertainment then I don’t know what to tell you.  I know plenty of people who don’t watch/engage in sports of any kind and they find joy in other ways.

So are the games entertainment or competition?

[HeloDude]

29 minutes ago, GKinnear said:

But that hard work and discipline doesn't matter if the on-field record doesn't.

Not to quote Rudy (great movie even though I’m not a Notre Dame fan), but it does still matter.  I’ll take learning great life skills and boys becoming great men any day over the score of some game.

[ecugringo]

26 minutes ago, kaputt said:

You're kidding yourself if you think the way players are getting paid today is anything even remotely similar to any shady, back room, under the table deals that used to go on. Johnny Manziel got $30,000 in a suitcase. Some players today are getting $1-2 million, if not $6-10 million for skill position guys.

But only a few schools have the donor base and resources to come up with these "endorsements" that pay these kids. Most college kids, even the good ones, don't have national name or face recognition. Yeah a couple get a Nissan, Dr. Pepper, or T Mobile commercial; but most are getting fed money from school connected donors/businesses that are nothing more than a thinly disguised pay to play scheme. Their name, image, likeness is actually worth nothing, its simply their presence on the field that matters. That's pay to play, not NIL. 

It's completely unchecked free agency; a wildfire fed further by the transfer portal. The backroom stuff that used to go on is nothing in comparison to what's happening today to try and get kids to come play for certain schools. 

You may ethically be okay with the money moving around, and the Supreme Court backs that up. But its still going to destroy major college football. Road to hell, it's usually paved with good intentions. 

I’d rather see the players make some $$ and have a choice in their destiny.  
 

manziel exposed how messed up of a system it is..he puts a&m back on the map, they get millions in rev and donations, new stadium…but he can’t sign footballs?  Oh but he got a free degree…..

I enjoy the entertainment aspect of college football, but I’m not going to pretend it’s a sacred institution with the student athletes best interest.   It’s a wired form of minor leagues.

[HeloDude]

Just now, VMFA187 said:

So are the games entertainment or competition?

Totally depends on how you’re involved in it.  A game by definition is a competition…but I’m not part of college football game.  I’m just a spectator because I find it fun to watch, therefore it’s entertainment.

Again, unless you are involved/connected with the FSU football team, they don’t even know you exist, literally.  So why allow their success or failures to affect you tomorrow?

[VMFA187]

47 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

One thing is for certain, Travis Jordan has to be the Heisman winner...He is obviously the best player in football because they dropped an undefeated power five conference champion because he was injured.

Hit me up if you’re ever in San Diego. First three rounds on me.

I get the sarcasm, but we’re similar people. Cheers.

 

[VMFA187]

1 minute ago, HeloDude said:

Totally depends on how you’re involved in it.  A game by definition is a competition…but I’m not part of college football game.  I’m just a spectator because I find it fun to watch, therefore it’s entertainment.

Again, unless you are involved/connected with the FSU football team, they don’t even know you exist, literally.  So why allow their success or failures to affect you tomorrow?

Because I was a fighter pilot, and enjoy competition.

[HeloDude]

11 minutes ago, VMFA187 said:

Because I was a fighter pilot, and enjoy competition.

But you’re not part of the competition of a football game—you’re a spectator who enjoys watching a good competition.  And I know plenty of people who like watching a good competition who aren’t fighter pilots, or any kind of pilot for that matter.  You can have the soccer game of a century and I wouldn’t watch…not because it’s not a good competition, but rather because I don’t enjoy watching soccer.

Edited December 4, 2023 by HeloDude

[VMFA187]

9 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

But you’re not part of the competition of a football game—you’re a spectator who enjoys watching a good competition.  And I know plenty of people who like watching a good competition who aren’t fighter pilots, or any kind of pilot for that matter.  You can have the soccer game of a century and I wouldn’t watch…not because it’s not a good competition, but rather because I don’t enjoy watching soccer.

Like I said, I’m a fighter pilot. Things I love, I take personal. Even if I don’t have a direct effect on the result. That’s how it is, for better or worse.

13-0 > 12-1

Fighters > Helos

 

[HeloDude]

22 minutes ago, VMFA187 said:

Fighters > Helos

You got me there man—sick burn.  

[VMFA187]

14 minutes ago, HeloDude said:

You got me there man—sick burn.  

What about 

13-0 > 12-1

Didn't get you there? 

[HeloDude]

28 minutes ago, VMFA187 said:

What about 

13-0 > 12-1

Didn't get you there? 

Like I said man, college football for me is entertainment.  When I don’t like a how movie doesn’t end, I just go on with my life, which fortunately provides real joy.

[ClearedHot]

7 hours ago, HeloDude said:

Like I said man, college football for me is entertainment.  When I don’t like a how movie doesn’t end, I just go on with my life, which fortunately provides real joy.

[Sua Sponte]

You can blame TCU’s ass whipping in the Natty last year on why FSU was left out this year. 

[VMFA187]

2 hours ago, Sua Sponte said:

You can blame TCU’s ass whipping in the Natty last year on why FSU was left out this year. 

But they beat Michigan to get there. 

How did Cincinatti get in?

[Lawman]

You can blame TCU’s ass whipping in the Natty last year on why FSU was left out this year. 

Yeah FSU… they “aren’t the same team without the QB”

But we can let them play Georgia because that makes sense. By rights FSU could be playing OSU with the history on bowl alignment. That would make sense if they aren’t good enough to be in right? After all the ACC isn’t a real conference or some weird crooked post BCS logic. Runner ups of B1G and SEC and have Georgia replay OSU for a rematch but nahh, that makes too much sense.

FSU should be in, and the SEC should have been exposed and left out having no clearly defined greatness as a Georgia without 2 key players couldn’t put away an Alabama that lost to Texas. But no way will dollars ever be left out of the discussion and if there is one thing that was not gonna happen is was leaving the SEC booster money out of big bowl games played in their back yard.


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[Smokin]

FSU should publish how much they expect to make from the bowl and start a gofundme to make up for the bowl money and then cancel the bowl.  I'd donate.

[Sua Sponte]

6 hours ago, VMFA187 said:

But they beat Michigan to get there. 

How did Cincinatti get in?

They sure did, then got boat raced by Georgia. I’m not saying it’s right, because it’s not, but do you believe if FSU made it to the natty, they’d be competitive against any of the other three teams?  

[Lawman]

They sure did, then got boat raced by Georgia. I’m not saying it’s right, because it’s not, but do you believe if FSU made it to the natty, they’d be competitive against any of the other three teams?  

Then why rank them higher than Georgia if it’s a simple as they aren’t evaluated to be that competitive. More specifically why do it 2 weeks after you already put them at one place in the list with said world changing quarterback?

The default answer is a cop out of “the committee is an evolving evaluation based off ____.” Then it ignores its own precedents when inconvenient. And the default answer is “we aren’t wrong and weren’t wrong then, we’re just somehow more informed now.”

FSU got hosed for one simple reason, the money/views provided by the SEC participation in the final 4.


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[Pooter]

The idea that you can objectively rank the quality of teams into a definitive top 25 list is the fatal conceit of college football and as long as it exists these arguments will continue. When it was a 2 team final people argued over who's ranked #2 vs #3. With the playoff we argue over whos #4 vs #5. With a 12 team super duper bracket we'll argue over who's #12 vs #13. 

The flaw in all of this is that teams fluctuate week to week wildly in quality of play. Alabama last week, top 4 team. Alabama the week they played auburn, not even in the top 25. Georgia absolutely dumpersting ole miss, best team in the country. Same Georgia barely pulls it out weeks later against GA tech. So I find all this talk about being able to definitively pick the best 4 teams to be quite silly. 
 

The only objective measure is your record, with strength of schedule and style points being used only in fringe cases or as a tie break. 
 

Honestly Georgia had a more dominant season than Alabama did up until the SEC championship. Now they're both one loss teams, with Alabama having a worse loss and worse season overall. But I don't see anyone advocating we throw out the bama Georgia game result in favor of a more wholistic view. So clearly the games do matter, just when it's convenient.