ANG Pilot Bonus

[Duck]

Before I get someone’s guess at my base, I figured I would reach out to the bros on here.

 

We have a Title-10 mission at my base and we get fed man days from AMC and TACC quarterly through the M4S system. Last year I had guys that were on orders the whole year (365 days+) and it got me thinking, if or how could I get them a pilot bonus.

 

Has anyone had any experience getting a traditional pilot on full time title-10 orders eligible for the bonus? I figure this could potentially help retain some guys if I can figure out a way to put some extra $ in their pocket.

 

 

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[SocialD]

Great question.  You SHOULD be able to do that (after the fact), but that would be logical and I'm not sure the AF has advanced that far lol.  We give bonuses to DSG's who take a year+ set of ADOS (alert) orders.  But if the orders are flowing a quarter at a time, I'm not sure how that works.  You have me interested, I'll ask around next week.    

[Duck]

Thanks SocialD


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[brabus]

You described me most of the last 3 years. When the bonus comes out around Mar/Apr, you can sign for any length of bonus as long as you are on full time orders at the time of bonus application (this includes DSGs currently on orders). The only factor to consider is it’s WG/CC approval to allow your bonus length to exceed your current order length. What this amounts to is the WG/CC is saying give him the X year bonus because we’re confident he’ll be on full time orders for that length of time (it’s irrelevant how many sets of orders are strung together to add up to the total time, including AT days). Of course the member has to understand in the event of curtailing orders/the promised orders don’t show up, they may be subject to bonus payback depending if they’ve done the min years or not. That’s spelled out clearly in the bonus announcement.

I think you’re fucked on any retro action if you were thinking about that.

Edited December 31, 2022 by brabus

[kona4breakfast]

BLUF: The day you start a qualifying T10 order, go sign a bonus agreement for the Tier 3 bonus. 

Of note, the FY bonus is, in practice, a CY bonus. For instance, if someone hypothetically came off of a MEST order and started a T10 order on 20 OCT 22, they should take that order over to their bonus rep and sign a Tier 3 bonus agreement for the FY21 program, as the FY21 ANG bonus agreement started in late March-ish and could be entered into through the remainder of the calendar year. If, say, your bonus rep never bothered to actually read/understand the program, and didn't distro the program details to the commanders/potentially eligible people so that you didn't know that you were eligible to sign, you are shit out of luck until they announce the next year's bonus, which is how I got screwed out of 6 months of the bonus. FWIW I would roll year-to-year as they pay it in arrears. 

From the FY22 ANG bonus, the following didn't change in FY23:

2.1.7. For Tier 3 AvB, members must serve at least one (1) year of full-time orders without a break-in-service in support of ACA/Alert Support, RPA, RC-26, Counterdrug (CD), Formal Training Unit (FTU), F-35 conversion missions or National Guard Bureau 3 (NGB)/Major Command (MAJCOM)/Numbered Air Force (NAF) staff positions.

2.1.7.1. Members may transition to other types of orders, such as deployment, training, school, and other assignments, and be able to remain on their Tier 3 AvB as long as a preponderance of their time is in support of a qualifying Tier 3 mission.

2.1.7.2. School and Mission Essential Skill Training (MEST) orders are not eligible for Tier 3, unless qualifying under the F-35 conversion mission.

2.1.7.3. At time of application, members do not need orders to cover the entire one (1) year period, however, no payment will be made and agreement will be invalidated if one (1) year of continuous full-time service is not completed by the agreement anniversary date.

[brabus]

Solid info. There’s also Tier 1/2 bonuses for higher amounts if you’re confident you’ll be full time for greater than a year. If you want to stay a free agent after a year of orders, then stick with tier 3. 

[Guardian]

And don’t forget. Guard bonuses generally speaking aren’t binding in a lot of cases. You can get out of them.

[brabus]

2 hours ago, Guardian said:

And don’t forget. Guard bonuses generally speaking aren’t binding in a lot of cases. You can get out of them.

Never seen someone not get out of one, but it does require TAG approval. One dbag TAG could fuck you, but unlikely from what I’ve seen (but our TAGs have been pretty good).

[Duck]

Solid info. There’s also Tier 1/2 bonuses for higher amounts if you’re confident you’ll be full time for greater than a year. If you want to stay a free agent after a year of orders, then stick with tier 3. 

Thanks Brabus! The only problem with Tier 1 is it says it’s for AGR or Statutory Tour Only. Does anyone know what a Statutory Tour is?


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[SocialD]

12 minutes ago, Duck said:

Thanks Brabus! The only problem with Tier 1 is it says it’s for AGR or Statutory Tour Only. Does anyone know what a Statutory Tour is?

 

 

Title 10 orders working for NGB.  You'd know it if you, or anyone in your squadron were on a stat tour.  They're actually a good deal if you're looking to extend MLOA to get to that retirement.  The orders are USERRA exempt, which is a good deal the NGB keeps for themselves, but can't seem to extend to various orders throughout the system (cough alert...).  

ANGI 36-6 if you're really interested lol.  

[Duck]

 
 
Title 10 orders working for NGB.  You'd know it if you, or anyone in your squadron were on a stat tour.  They're actually a good deal if you're looking to extend MLOA to get to that retirement.  The orders are USERRA exempt, which is a good deal the NGB keeps for themselves, but can't seem to extend to various orders throughout the system (cough alert...).  

ANGI 36-6 if you're really interested lol.  

Good info. Our orders are ONE Alert and USERRA Exempt but not statutory. Would have been nice to get the $35-25k, but still if I can grab some $15k bonuses for my guys, every little bit helps. It’s getting tougher as the airlines start to get more desperate for bodies.


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[Guardian]

I think if you can get the bonus started while on AGR then go to the orders you are talking about that might work. As long as there are no gaps.

I don’t think Temp AGR works though.

[SocialD]

1 hour ago, Duck said:

Good info. Our orders are ONE Alert and USERRA Exempt but not statutory. Would have been nice to get the $35-25k, but still if I can grab some $15k bonuses for my guys, every little bit helps. It’s getting tougher as the airlines start to get more desperate for bodies.

 

 

 

Wait wut?  You guys have ONE alert orders that are USERRA Exempt?  What's a brother gotta do to get USERRA exemption for the ONE alert orders my guys are on.

Edited January 2, 2023 by SocialD

[Duck]

 
 
Wait wut?  You guys have ONE alert orders that are USERRA Exempt?  What's a brother gotta do to get USERRA exemption for the ONE alert orders my guys are on.

It is crazy how these orders are all over the place. I was talking to another base that all of their guys get full per diem while on ONE. At my base you have to live >75 miles away from base. Then from what I understand the fighter guys on ONE are all AGR?


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[SocialD]

15 minutes ago, Duck said:

It is crazy how these orders are all over the place. I was talking to another base that all of their guys get full per diem while on ONE. At my base you have to live >75 miles away from base.

 

 

It's all about controlling the budget.  I've only ever gotten per diem for alert when I was sitting alert with other squadrons.  

 

 

15 minutes ago, Duck said:

Then from what I understand the fighter guys on ONE are all AGR?

 

 

We're heavy AGR but have a few ADOS spots as well (each unit can adjust the mix a little year-by-year), but NONE of them are USERRA exempt.  There was push a while back, but I think it was shot by the ANGRC/CC or somewhere up there.  It's just odd that you guys would get it (not hating...I'm glad you do) but we do not.  

[mp5g]

We have some ACA AGR’s but most of the guys that contribute are on ADOS. None of the ACA type orders (AGR or ADOS) have been USERRA exempt for us. However, some dudes have submitted their ADOS orders through Reduced Retirement and have had luck getting them approved. I really think that simply comes down to who is reviewing your order sets on any given day.   But like SocialID said, what’s a brother gotta do to get some USERRA exempt ONE orders?

[Duck]

We have some ACA AGR’s but most of the guys that contribute are on ADOS. None of the ACA type orders (AGR or ADOS) have been USERRA exempt for us. However, some dudes have submitted their ADOS orders through Reduced Retirement and have had luck getting them approved. I really think that simply comes down to who is reviewing your order sets on any given day.   But like SocialID said, what’s a brother gotta do to get some USERRA exempt ONE orders?

Not sure. I know all our days are sent from AMC to “pay the bill”.

I heard that AMC decided to fund it this way through these type of orders rather than allocating AGR assets to the ONE mission.

As far as our local manning I have watched it go from feast to famine and back to feast. It’s a buyers market. Last year we had guys on orders for the whole year, only coming off ONE orders for a quick deployment, then back to ONE. For the first time since pre-COVID we are going to have guest help because we don’t have enough volunteers. Going to be an interesting year!


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[Duck]

SocialD and mp5g, are your orders title 10? Our orders are title 10 Contingency so they look exactly like deployment orders. Just trying to figure out why you guys wouldn’t be USERRA exempt like us.


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[herkbum]

Sounds like guard bum life for non-RPA units is back if it is wanted


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[Duck]

I question why anyone outside of 5 or so years to retirement would want to stick around full time to be honest. I’m sure every unit and every airframe is different.


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[mp5g]

2 hours ago, Duck said:

SocialD and mp5g, are your orders title 10? Our orders are title 10 Contingency so they look exactly like deployment orders. Just trying to figure out why you guys wouldn’t be USERRA exempt like us.


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Ours are all Title 32 with a Title 10 overlay if the horn goes off. 

[SocialD]

3 hours ago, mp5g said:

We have some ACA AGR’s but most of the guys that contribute are on ADOS. None of the ACA type orders (AGR or ADOS) have been USERRA exempt for us. However, some dudes have submitted their ADOS orders through Reduced Retirement and have had luck getting them approved. I really think that simply comes down to who is reviewing your order sets on any given day.   But like SocialID said, what’s a brother gotta do to get some USERRA exempt ONE orders?

 

 

We're the exact opposite, we only have a few ADOS spots and use the rest as AGRs.  WRT the early retirement credit, just make sure they're looking at the "approved" and not the "tentatively approved," or whatever the verbiage is on the two tabs.  We all thought the same thing until someone realized that there are two different tabs.  The guys who really made out where the dudes that went to UPT on title 10 orders right after me.  Supposedly, all of training up through their MEST counted for early retirement credit.  I hope that's true.

 

 

3 hours ago, Duck said:

As far as our local manning I have watched it go from feast to famine and back to feast. It’s a buyers market. Last year we had guys on orders for the whole year, only coming off ONE orders for a quick deployment, then back to ONE. For the first time since pre-COVID we are going to have guest help because we don’t have enough volunteers. Going to be an interesting year!

 

 

Been a buyers market in my squadron for a few years now.  We're having to tell dudes off AD that they HAVE to take an AGR job if they want into the squadron...no room for part-timers.  Actually, the only reason I extended my retirement out another year is because we had so many of our Lt Col's get hired at the airlines.  Our entire future leadership stable was in training/OE/probation and didn't want to take part-time CC gigs as new hires lol.   Good thing is they're all about to finish probation and come back on orders.  Bad thing is the process is about to repeat itself again as we have about 5ish full timers that will likely get hired this year.

 

 

3 hours ago, Duck said:

SocialD and mp5g, are your orders title 10? Our orders are title 10 Contingency so they look exactly like deployment orders. Just trying to figure out why you guys wouldn’t be USERRA exempt like us.

 

 

Title-32...  Now we know the rest of the story..still interested in why they would be different.  

 

 

3 hours ago, herkbum said:

Sounds like guard bum life for non-RPA units is back if it is wanted

 

 

It is at my squadron, problem is very few people actually want to bum lol.  Everyone who wants orders, is getting them.  We actually had to turn back a bunch of orders last year because we couldn't use them.  That was after we gave a bunch of orders to ~5 guys from various squadrons to sit alert.  With 72 AFTPs now, as a part-timer, it's actually hard to burn all the AFTPs/UTAs, without taking a big pay hit.

 

 

3 hours ago, Duck said:

I question why anyone outside of 5 or so years to retirement would want to stick around full time to be honest. I’m sure every unit and every airframe is different.

 

 

I don't think we have any that do.  The only guys in my squadron who stick around full time are the ones who are within 5 years of their 20.  I certainly didn't lol.  

Edited January 2, 2023 by SocialD

[Neverupgrade]

I’ve lurked here for years, never posted (or even made an account), but I had to after this thread. 
 

What corner of the ANG/ARC are you all in (genuine question)? 
 

In my corner, C-130H unit, we haven’t had regular orders for years. Our guys who planned to bum have all had to take full time jobs, most at the airlines but not all, due to lack of consistent orders, and minimal full time slots. We have new guys who may not get enough hours to upgrade to basic AC before they finish their UPT ADSC unless something changes. Plus, we only have 6 full time officers in our squadron. 
 

 

To add… y’all hiring? Asking for a friend, of course. 

[kona4breakfast]

Not to get too off topic, but is anyone on T10 ONE alert getting TAMP? The way I read our orders it seems to me that we ought to be eligible for TAMP but can't seem to get it. 

[Duck]

Not to get too off topic, but is anyone on T10 ONE alert getting TAMP? The way I read our orders it seems to me that we ought to be eligible for TAMP but can't seem to get it. 

Yes. We are getting TAMP.


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