ANG to UPT

[wikz]

Good evening aviators. Been reading forums, and I couldn't find specific info for these questions, other than do your best and the scores will handle themselves.

When picked up from an ANG unit for fighters, are you guaranteed to track select t-38's?

I understand that you can be forced into t-1's from t-38's if you arent making "fighter grades" in UPT, but how badly do you really have to be doing to get switched tracks?

is it possible to get picked up by a unit for fighters, make fighter grades, and not track t-38's because there's not enough t-38 slots in a class?

I am a long way from UPT (not assuming i'm even going to get picked up by a unit), but I enjoy reading the forums, and thought id have the discussion posted for anyone that is possibly wondering the same thing I am.

-wikz

 

Edited April 18, 2023 by wikz

[CaptainMorgan]

Good evening aviators. Been reading forums, and I couldn't find specific info for these questions, other than do your best and the scores will handle themselves.
When picked up from an ANG unit for fighters, are you guaranteed to track select t-38's?
I understand that you can be forced into t-1's from t-38's if you arent making "fighter grades" in UPT, but how badly do you really have to be doing to get switched tracks?
is it possible to get picked up by a unit for fighters, make fighter grades, and not track t-38's because there's not enough t-38 slots in a class?
I am a long way from UPT (not assuming i'm even going to get picked up by a unit), but I enjoy reading the forums, and thought id have the discussion posted for anyone that is possibly wondering the same thing I am.
-wikz
 

We had a guy in my class who was hired for F-16s in the Iowa ANG. He finished just a spot or two below top half in T-6s, and was not sent to -38s. They sent him to T-1s on the condition he would find himself a new unit. He didn’t, so the T-1 Sq/CC found one for him.

As for the 3rd question, that shouldn’t happen AFAIK.


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[hindsight2020]

If AFRC, HQ AFRC centrally assigns pipeline students without sponsoring units, or those who lose sponsorship due to performance threshold issues. Of course there is conference with both losing and gaining units along with AD training squadron leadership for truth data, but ultimately an MDR is needs of the Air Force Reserve. The AD sq/cc are consulted, but ultimately have no vote on the ADCON unit re-assignment of AFRC or ANG pipeline students.

ANG students are also managed by AFRC (340th FTG) while undergoing UPT, but any re-assignment process ultimately falls on the NGB and the willy wonka rabbit hole that is the title 32 world. Not even AFRC, who functionally manages them for the duration of their tenure in AETC, has control of that.

Training allocations are paid for by the NGB or AFRC, thence there is no circumstance under which an ARC pipeline student would lose their spot in a T-38 track because there's not enough "slots in a class". AD funding of their training allocations do not cross streams with ARC. AFRC and ANG students are in that regard,  not on AD's training timeline.

[wikz]

Is an ANG fighter selectee who doesnt track t-38's in UPT because of grades common, or a once in a millennia type of thing?

[ryleypav]

On 4/21/2023 at 1:54 AM, wikz said:

Is an ANG fighter selectee who doesnt track t-38's in UPT because of grades common, or a once in a millennia type of thing?

Not very common. This is why the selection process is so thorough and why fighter units usually have such a high bar set for interviews. A lot of time and money is invested in you by the time you reach track night. 

[O Face]

I’d say it’s fairly common.  Some folks just can’t cut it, for whatever reason. Guard units then will go to sister squadrons and play baseball GM trading draft picks. We’ve sent dudes who didn’t make T-38 to a heavy squadron, as well as picked up a guy who was at a heavy squadron, but wanted fighters and scored high enough to make the 38 cut. Guard units are pretty good about helping each other out. 

[hindsight2020]

On 4/27/2023 at 3:38 PM, ryleypav said:

Not very common. This is why the selection process is so thorough and why fighter units usually have such a high bar set for interviews. A lot of time and money is invested in you by the time you reach track night. 

naw, it's just a pageant, nothing more. They have no better way of screening for aptitude at the neophyte level, for the kind of flying the aspirants are ultimately going for, but have yet to demonstrate. Certainly no more a clue than big blue regAF does with their gen pop IFS accessions. It's all a crapshoot

I've seen plenty of their hires not make it. I've been in the UPT game for 12 years so I've had first hand experience of the dynamic not only as a Guard applicant of said units, but also later on as an instructor of some said washouts both in T-6s and 38s. 

My own initial caf unit had to deal with one such case during my tenure. Composite Wing sister squadron (11F) tried to push gumby hands, and the UPT squadron non-recommended her for IFF mid-phase3, so they chucked her to us (11B). Worthless, and not the greatest attitude from where I sat (scoffed at the initial offer of an 11M recat, can't believe they acquiesced, actually I can but that's not for this thread) and proof positive there was no vetting of consequence. Tons of cult of personality tbh. 

In reality, and to your point, fighter units have enough applicants they can just play the straight numbers game, like the cartels smuggling by car crossing. Enough make it through to make the excess losses justified. That does not equate having a vetting process though.

 

 

Edited May 9, 2023 by hindsight2020

[ryleypav]

On 5/8/2023 at 7:43 PM, hindsight2020 said:

naw, it's just a pageant, nothing more. They have no better way of screening for aptitude at the neophyte level, for the kind of flying the aspirants are ultimately going for, but have yet to demonstrate. Certainly no more a clue than big blue regAF does with their gen pop IFS accessions. It's all a crapshoot

I've seen plenty of their hires not make it. I've been in the UPT game for 12 years so I've had first hand experience of the dynamic not only as a Guard applicant of said units, but also later on as an instructor of some said washouts both in T-6s and 38s. 

My own initial caf unit had to deal with one such case during my tenure. Composite Wing sister squadron (11F) tried to push gumby hands, and the UPT squadron non-recommended her for IFF mid-phase3, so they chucked her to us (11B). Worthless, and not the greatest attitude from where I sat (scoffed at the initial offer of an 11M recat, can't believe they acquiesced, actually I can but that's not for this thread) and proof positive there was no vetting of consequence. Tons of cult of personality tbh. 

In reality, and to your point, fighter units have enough applicants they can just play the straight numbers game, like the cartels smuggling by car crossing. Enough make it through to make the excess losses justified. That does not equate having a vetting process though.

 

 

Fair, fair.