John Kelly goes on the record about his time with Trump

[Carnivore]

https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/02/politics/john-kelly-donald-trump-us-service-members-veterans/index.html

[Lord Ratner]

I think the number one threat to the Republican party right now, aside from the usual political machinations in Washington, is the inability of conservative voters to deal with the cognitive dissonance of appreciating the policy successes of Donald Trump contrasted with the fact that he is in fact a piece of shit as a human being.

[ClearedHot]

13 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

I think the number one threat to the Republican party right now, aside from the usual political machinations in Washington, is the inability of conservative voters to deal with the cognitive dissonance of appreciating the policy successes of Donald Trump contrasted with the fact that he is in fact a piece of shit as a human being.

Concur, his popularity only grows.  We need an off ramp, but it appears nothing short of a conviction AND jail time will remove him from the field of play...even then he might still be elected, pardon himself and continue the dysfunction. 

[M2]

How to fuck up a perfectly good M1911!!

[Pooter]

Sad part is this will change precisely nothing with his fans. There isn't a scandal or conviction or statement or act he could commit that would shake their support for him. It is full cult of personality level commitment that is entirely separated from policy, morality, and reality itself. 

Over half of the Republican Party is in a hostage situation because they're either too stupid or too prideful to adjust course or admit they were taken advantage of. 

But one thing is for sure: this crap turns off moderate republicans and independents like a big dog. So, much in the same way that trump lost republicans the senate through his idiotic meddling in Georgia, he will ensure another Biden term. And when Biden predictably expires, we'll all know exactly who to thank for president Kamala.

 

[Biff_T]

1 hour ago, Pooter said:

Over half of the Republican Party is in a hostage situation be

The whole country is being held hostage to both parties'  incompetence.  They are all corrupt peices of shit at the Federal and State Levels.   Prove me wrong lol.   I wish this was a joke because the American government is the best stand up comedy act to exist to date on planet Earth.  Once again, the country is worse than when G W took office.  Shit Im a Gen Xer and Im going to say it was better in 80s under Reagan (I was playing with G I Joes and listening to Warrant back then but my dad could afford to feed us and buy a house on a plumber's salary) doesn't appear to be getting any better.   Why?  Because we keep pretending to believe our votes matter and that the people in charge aren't corrupt.  

How do you fix this without a fuck ton of pain?  

Edited October 3, 2023 by Biff_T
Spelling bee failure

[Negatory]

1 hour ago, Biff_T said:

The whole country is being held hostage to both parties'  incompetence.  They are all corrupt peices of shit at the Federal and State Levels.   Prove me wrong lol.   I wish this was a joke because the American government is the best stand up comedy act to exist to date on planet Earth.  Once again, the country is worse than when G W took office.  Shit Im a Gen Xer and Im going to say it was better in 80s under Reagan (I was playing with G I Joes and listening to Warrant back then but my dad could afford to feed us and buy a house on a plumber's salary) doesn't appear to be getting any better.   Why?  Because we keep pretending to believe our votes matter and that the people in charge aren't corrupt.  

How do you fix this without a fuck ton of pain?  

If your metric for whether or not things are good is “are they better than the 80s, 90s, or 2000s,” I’ve got bad news for you. America’s extremely rare 60-year global unipolar dominance and being able to benefit from the rest of the world blowing its infrastructure up during WWII is over.

There are actually a lot of arguments that being an American in 2019 or 2007 represents the best average life circumstances humans will experience for a long time. Good evidence that being a boomer or a gen x in America = best life humans have ever had, and will maintain that status for the next few generations. See Principles of a Changing World Order by Ray Dalio.

Quantitative easing by both parties, immense overspending by both parties, collosal defense and policy failures in the Middle East wars, a lack of focus on infrastructure or investment, and real great power competition equals worse times for the foreseeable future. There is no easy way out, and no political agenda that will just magically fix it.

[Biff_T]

2 hours ago, Negatory said:

If your metric for whether or not things are good is “are they better than the 80s, 90s, or 2000s,” I’ve got bad news for you. America’s extremely rare 60-year global unipolar dominance and being able to benefit from the rest of the world blowing its infrastructure up during WWII is over.

It didn't have to be over.  "We the people" were duped by corruption.  This has happened before (history isnt kind to empires lol). We're letting them  continue to piss our "good luck" right into their bank accounts.  While my dad is still working full time as a plumber, they enjoy the fruits of corruption.  Welcome to the end of America.  

Edited October 3, 2023 by Biff_T
Spelling bee failure

[Lord Ratner]

5 hours ago, Pooter said:

Over half of the Republican Party is in a hostage situation because they're either too stupid or too prideful to adjust course or admit they were taken advantage of. 

Wrong. They're too mad. 

 

In the hierarchy of concerns, classified document mishandling, treating women grossly (but not illegally), cheating on your marriages, lying about nearly everything in your past, or all the other things that Donald Trump does to distinguish himself as a human with little or no character, those things are all subordinate to being called a piece of shit, or a liar, or a rube, or being gaslit, or having your most foundational family values attacked, to be called a racist, or a sexist, you get the idea.

 

American conservatives are furious. And furious people do not see nuance or reason. Until the thing that is making them furious is resolved, they are not going to get caught up in little details like what a miserable human being Donald Trump is.

 

And since the exact same activists, politicians, famous people, and other progressive entities who rebranded the American conservative as some sort of hate spewing, idiotic, predatory, and privileged group are the ones now going after Donald Trump, there is a 0% chance that they are going to see the light.

 

And you know what, the many shortcomings of Donald Trump are in fact very, very, very subordinate to the societal warfare that is being waged by the most privileged and unaccomplished in our country. I honestly don't know that I can vote for Donald Trump again, but there is no aspect where his re-election is worse for the country than what American progressives have done and are continuing to do.

 

My primary concern is that his election will not make the problem any better, because Donald Trump also blinds liberal voters to what The Democratic party has become. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by Lord Ratner

[pbar]

The people I'm angriest at are the Establishment Republicans (GOPe).  The Dems are driving the country off a cliff but the GOPe is only interested that they do it in 2nd gear instead of 5th.  Trump was a protest vote to wake our Republican congresscritters up and it didn't do any good.  Aside from some tax breaks, name a single major conservative issue that has passed through Congress in our favor.  Repeal of Obamacare?  Repeal of the National Firearms Act?  Reduce the size of government?  Nope, nada, zilch.  The Dems have been captured by the extreme left that wants to remake this country into North Korea or the PRC (you're high if you don't think the social credit score thing will be implemented here).  The fight between the Dems and Repubs used to be mostly about the size of the welfare state; it is now a fundamental transformation of everything and the GOPe's strategy is to lose with dignity.  If our side did what we sent them there to do, that charlatan Trump would have never been elected. 

Edited October 3, 2023 by pbar

[Pooter]

@pbar good points I don't think you're going to get a reduction in government unless you vote libertarian. Trump blew the budget out too. 
 

@Lord Ratner I think you're more right than I am. They are too mad. To the point that they're so blinded they can't see the dude they're supporting out of spite will just set them back more. It'll be interesting to see how much consistent losing it takes for the trumpians to bail on him. But I suspect the limit does not exist, because every defeat just martyrs him more in their eyes. 

[08Dawg]

The thing that has me scratching my head is Trump’s vice grip on the evangelical vote. This is a guy who cheated on his wife with a porn star, then paid a bunch of hush money to cover it up…yet the evangelical right worships and adores the ground he walks on. Completely incongruous. 

[Biff_T]

11 minutes ago, 08Dawg said:

The thing that has me scratching my head is Trump’s vice grip on the evangelical vote. This is a guy who cheated on his wife with a porn star, then paid a bunch of hush money to cover it up…yet the evangelical right worships and adores the ground he walks on. Completely incongruous. 

It's complete lunacy.  Maybe because he's a teetotaler? 

[uhhello]

18 minutes ago, Biff_T said:

It's complete lunacy.  Maybe because he's a teetotaler? 

Minus the speed 🙂

[ClearedHot]

9 hours ago, 08Dawg said:

The thing that has me scratching my head is Trump’s vice grip on the evangelical vote. This is a guy who cheated on his wife with a porn star, then paid a bunch of hush money to cover it up…yet the evangelical right worships and adores the ground he walks on. Completely incongruous. 

Two VERY simple reasons:

1.  Forgiveness and being flawed is at the very heart of the gospel and Christianity. Colossians 3:13 states, “Bearing with one another and, if one has a complaint against another, forgiving each other; as the Lord has forgiven you, so you also must forgive.” We were born sinners against God, but He loved us enough to send Christ, His Son to die for us.

2.  Thanks to DJT, Roe V Wade was reversed.

Thanks to number 2, I think he is on an evangelical pedestal and as captured in his own words... 'I Could ... Shoot Somebody, And I Wouldn't Lose Any Voters'

[tac airlifter]

CH is 100% correct here.  If the idea of religious right supporting Trump doesn’t make sense to you, you don’t understand their beliefs or the depth of betrayal they feel by decades of Republicans who have moved none of their issues forward once in office.  He doesn’t pretend to be one of them, he clearly does not share all of their moral values. That’s OK for them.  Like Trump or not, he delivered on core promises to his constituencies. That’s why he is so popular while Kevin McCarthy (who made promises he failed to honor) is out on his ass.

I’m not arguing merits here, but it’s important to understand why people think the way they do if you’re interacting with them.

[Biff_T]

13 hours ago, uhhello said:

Minus the speed 🙂

Trump is definitely a tweaker lol

[Biff_T]

4 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Thanks to DJT, Roe V Wade was reversed.

Thanks to number 2, I think he is on an evangelical pedestal and as captured in his own words... 'I Could ... Shoot Somebody, And I Wouldn't Lose Any Voters

This.  

[Pooter]

4 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

CH is 100% correct here.  If the idea of religious right supporting Trump doesn’t make sense to you, you don’t understand their beliefs or the depth of betrayal they feel by decades of Republicans who have moved none of their issues forward once in office.  He doesn’t pretend to be one of them, he clearly does not share all of their moral values. That’s OK for them.  Like Trump or not, he delivered on core promises to his constituencies. That’s why he is so popular while Kevin McCarthy (who made promises he failed to honor) is out on his ass.

I’m not arguing merits here, but it’s important to understand why people think the way they do if you’re interacting with them.

That's the problem with single issue voters, specifically in this case the hardcore religious right: they always miss the forest for the trees. 
 

RoevWade was a big win for them.. for now. What they fail to realize is the hardline pro life stance is deeply unpopular at the national level, and republicans paid for it big time in 2022 with the completely neutered "red wave." They'll continue to pay for it in 2024.  So congrats you won on one issue.. at the expense of literally every other issue. 

Similar thing happening with the speaker fight too. Matt Gaetz didn't get 100% of what he wanted.. so let's nuke the whole thing and turn the party into a disjointed laughing stock as we move into 2024. Sounds like an amazing strategy.

[ClearedHot]

53 minutes ago, Pooter said:

That's the problem with single issue voters, specifically in this case the hardcore religious right: they always miss the forest for the trees. 
 

RoevWade was a big win for them.. for now. What they fail to realize is the hardline pro life stance is deeply unpopular at the national level, and republicans paid for it big time in 2022 with the completely neutered "red wave." They'll continue to pay for it in 2024.  So congrats you won on one issue.. at the expense of literally every other issue. 

Similar thing happening with the speaker fight too. Matt Gaetz didn't get 100% of what he wanted.. so let's nuke the whole thing and turn the party into a disjointed laughing stock as we move into 2024. Sounds like an amazing strategy.

Oh they get it, trust me...they really get it.  They know the other issues and the price that will be paid but this was THE issue and it was worth if it is "saves millions of innocent lives."  I've been fairly vocal on my position, despite a deep faith and coming from strong Irish Catholic background (I have two aunts that are nuns), I am pro choice and think dogmatic dedication to this third rail issue deals a serious blow to GOP chances in the next election (as realized in the mid-terms).  Punchline, the base on both sides is F'd up!

As for Gaetz, what a clown, when just 8 members of the house can completely derail our ability to govern...complete chaos.  Gaetz has a vendetta against McCarthy and if anyone thinks a more hardcore GOP Speaker is going to for the DNC to make concessions when they own both the Senate and the White House...you are smoking crack.  This is the type of divide the framers planned for, it was meant to drive discussion, debate and compromise.  If both side were unhappy with the deal then it was probably a good deal.

As for the DNC, what complete and utter hypocrisy.  They constantly scream about the danger of MAGA Republicans then they turn around and unanimously side with those same MAGA douchebags to unseat the Speaker, especially after Nancy promised they wouldn't and all for political gain at the cost of  dysfunction and chaos in our governance.  I am sure there will be DNC apologists on here but my god man, hang your heads in absolute shame.

[Dogs-N-Guns]

Regardless of where you stand, Roe v Wade was poorly written with little constitutional support. It should have been returned to the states long ago. Even LA Time admitted it was legally shaky. 

https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2022-05-03/how-roe-vs-wade-went-wrong-broad-new-right-to-abortion-rested-on-a-shaky-legal-foundation

The GOP neutered their own red wave. They spent millions on a R vs R senate race in Alaska to make sure RINO Murkowski was reelected and avoid another America First senator. That funding may have flipped AZ or MI senate seats, but the GOP would rather have uniparty dems than another anti-establishment conservative.

Spending has to be controlled unless you are ready for hyper inflation. If we have to break the system to fix it, no time to start like the present. I am one of those dangerous MAGA republicans.

[Pooter]

1 hour ago, Dogs-N-Guns said:

Spending has to be controlled unless you are ready for hyper inflation. If we have to break the system to fix it, no time to start like the present. I am one of those dangerous MAGA republicans.

Good luck with that. What you call breaking the system looks a lot like self sabotage and letting the left run away with the game. But to each their own. 

Can't wait for trump and the maga coalition,  (who blew the budget out so badly only Biden is worse) to finally reign in our spending /s 🤦🏻‍♂️🤦🏻‍♂️

[pbar]

20 hours ago, 08Dawg said:

The thing that has me scratching my head is Trump’s vice grip on the evangelical vote. This is a guy who cheated on his wife with a porn star, then paid a bunch of hush money to cover it up…yet the evangelical right worships and adores the ground he walks on. Completely incongruous. 

I don't get the Dem's vice grip on the African-American vote either.  The Dems seem to only care about issues important to that community every 4 years- otherwise it's lip service.  Also, an argument can be made that the rampant illegal immigration the Dems are in favor of has hurt blue-collar African-Americans in the trades more than any other group but still 90% vote for the Dems. 

[raimius]

It seems as though people vote for whichever side says nice things to them, whether or not any positive results occur.  Republicans say things conservative Christians agree with, while the DNC tends to call them heartless bigots.  Democrats claim to be helping African Americans, while Republicans don't really voice support (and the DNC casts anyone with an R after their name as a racist).  Neither party seems to actually do much work for either group, but they say sympathetic things...

[FourFans]

19 hours ago, Pooter said:

That's the problem with single issue voters, specifically in this case the hardcore religious right and hardcore woke left: they always miss the forest for the trees. 

FIFY