CCW Choice

[ClearedHot]

On 4/25/2024 at 10:04 PM, HossHarris said:

3” stainless 1911. 
 

if you need more than 8, you’ve got bigger problems 

I am guessing you've never been in a gunfight or you are a world class combat tested shooter.  It is one thing to drive nails at the range, quite another once the adrenaline starts to flow...trust me. 

Countless studies have proven the impact of stress on accuracy in real gunfights.  The data on police shootings is very consistent, annual hit-rate averages in large departments such as New York City, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Las Vegas, for example, have typically ranged from 22% to 52% over the decades.

A more recent study in Dallas examined 149 real-life OISs recorded over a 15-year period by Dallas (TX) PD. In nearly half of these encounters, officers firing at a single suspect delivered “complete inaccuracy.” That is, they missed the target entirely.

At 120 BPM – You begin lose fine motor skills. You are unable to dial a phone or aim a weapon. At this level, gross motor skills are generally unaffected.

At 150 BPM – You begin to lose your complex motor skills. Hand-eye coordination and timing
deteriorate. Practiced techniques that do not require fine motor skills are still generally available.

A 180 BPM and above – At this level you begin to lose rational thought processes. Though
trained gross motor skills are not drastically affected.

In the 134 cases where researchers were able to calculate the hit rate, “incredibly” it was merely 35%.  Another study examined fire rate, as stress increased so did the first rate, by a factor of two.  Combining these too factors together, it is usually better to have more rounds.  We can also discuss actual stopping power of the .45 versus the 9MM.  While the .45 is a larger projectile it is moving at a slower velocity and has less penetration than the 9MM.  Hollow-point 9MM rounds typically penetrate deeper and interestingly expand to almost the same size as the .45.  I am not hating on the .45, I own several but from personal experience I would rather have more rounds.
 

23 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

I just got a Sig Rattler LT with the 6.75" barrel. Haven't got it dressed up yet, and I'm still on the fence between keeping it a pistol or getting an NFA stamp for better stock options. Hopefully the court cases work out to beat back the SBR rules a bit.

 

That Ruger looks sick.

It really is.  The size, portability and maneuverability beat anything else I've tried when using as a vehicle weapon.  I was lucky to do a lot of training with the "lads" and did the driving and shooting course...I felt like a complete stooge the first couple runs.  The charger allows me to easily control the weapon pulling it from behind the drivers seat, across the front of my body without the muzzle banging into the steering wheel or getting hung up int he headliner.  A few of my collection (anyone want a Glock 30, WAY to small for my hand), for size comparison, as you can see folded up it is very small and the stock folds out in one fluid motion, making transition very easy.

 

[Lord Ratner]

1 hour ago, ClearedHot said:

I am guessing you've never been in a gunfight or you are a world class combat tested shooter.  It is one thing to drive nails at the range, quite another once the adrenaline starts to flow...trust me. 

Countless studies have proven the impact of stress on accuracy in real gunfights.  The data on police shootings is very consistent, annual hit-rate averages in large departments such as New York City, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Las Vegas, for example, have typically ranged from 22% to 52% over the decades.

A more recent study in Dallas examined 149 real-life OISs recorded over a 15-year period by Dallas (TX) PD. In nearly half of these encounters, officers firing at a single suspect delivered “complete inaccuracy.” That is, they missed the target entirely.

At 120 BPM – You begin lose fine motor skills. You are unable to dial a phone or aim a weapon. At this level, gross motor skills are generally unaffected.

At 150 BPM – You begin to lose your complex motor skills. Hand-eye coordination and timing
deteriorate. Practiced techniques that do not require fine motor skills are still generally available.

A 180 BPM and above – At this level you begin to lose rational thought processes. Though
trained gross motor skills are not drastically affected.

In the 134 cases where researchers were able to calculate the hit rate, “incredibly” it was merely 35%.  Another study examined fire rate, as stress increased so did the first rate, by a factor of two.  Combining these too factors together, it is usually better to have more rounds.  We can also discuss actual stopping power of the .45 versus the 9MM.  While the .45 is a larger projectile it is moving at a slower velocity and has less penetration than the 9MM.  Hollow-point 9MM rounds typically penetrate deeper and interestingly expand to almost the same size as the .45.  I am not hating on the .45, I own several but from personal experience I would rather have more rounds.
 

It really is.  The size, portability and maneuverability beat anything else I've tried when using as a vehicle weapon.  I was lucky to do a lot of training with the "lads" and did the driving and shooting course...I felt like a complete stooge the first couple runs.  The charger allows me to easily control the weapon pulling it from behind the drivers seat, across the front of my body without the muzzle banging into the steering wheel or getting hung up int he headliner.  A few of my collection (anyone want a Glock 30, WAY to small for my hand), for size comparison, as you can see folded up it is very small and the stock folds out in one fluid motion, making transition very easy.

 

That's tight. It blows my mind that the Rattler LT is the same length as the Charger *after* they added 1.25” to the barrel. I've never paid much attention to the "braced pistol" world until now. The Rattler is crazy $$$, but .300BLK is a pretty neat round. I just gotta wait for my ATF approval for the silencer and I'll be ready to find somewhere for a little training. I'm sure they're plenty of options on Texas🤣😂

 

Might have to at the Charger to the wishlist... I decided I'm going to try and minimize the number of calibers I own, and 9 mm ain't going anywhere anytime soon.

[Smokin]

4 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

I am guessing you've never been in a gunfight or you are a world class combat tested shooter.  It is one thing to drive nails at the range, quite another once the adrenaline starts to flow...trust me. 

Countless studies have proven the impact of stress on accuracy in real gunfights.  The data on police shootings is very consistent, annual hit-rate averages in large departments such as New York City, Chicago, Philadelphia, and Las Vegas, for example, have typically ranged from 22% to 52% over the decades.

A more recent study in Dallas examined 149 real-life OISs recorded over a 15-year period by Dallas (TX) PD. In nearly half of these encounters, officers firing at a single suspect delivered “complete inaccuracy.” That is, they missed the target entirely.

At 120 BPM – You begin lose fine motor skills. You are unable to dial a phone or aim a weapon. At this level, gross motor skills are generally unaffected.

At 150 BPM – You begin to lose your complex motor skills. Hand-eye coordination and timing
deteriorate. Practiced techniques that do not require fine motor skills are still generally available.

A 180 BPM and above – At this level you begin to lose rational thought processes. Though
trained gross motor skills are not drastically affected.

In the 134 cases where researchers were able to calculate the hit rate, “incredibly” it was merely 35%.  Another study examined fire rate, as stress increased so did the first rate, by a factor of two.  Combining these too factors together, it is usually better to have more rounds.  We can also discuss actual stopping power of the .45 versus the 9MM.  While the .45 is a larger projectile it is moving at a slower velocity and has less penetration than the 9MM.  Hollow-point 9MM rounds typically penetrate deeper and interestingly expand to almost the same size as the .45.  I am not hating on the .45, I own several but from personal experience I would rather have more rounds.

I've never shot a rifle or pistol at a person and hope I never have to.  And I don't doubt that my accuracy would be drastically decreased if that person might be shooting back.  But I would be very interested to see an in depth study like the above data on CC shootings.  Just based on personal experience, I've been to multiple shooting ranges both civilian and military and have coincidentally been shooting next to police officers multiple times.  Not a single time was I impressed with any of their shooting.  I know that there are many cops that would shoot circles inside my groups, but I wonder how the hit rate of CC shooters would compare with the average.

That said, more bullets is always better, which is why I'm still looking to figure out a folding M4 for my truck gun.

[HossHarris]

4 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

I am guessing you've never been in a gunfight or you are a world class combat tested shooter.  It is one thing to drive nails at the range, quite another once the adrenaline starts to flow...trust me. 

Nope. Nor do I hope to be. 
 

Around my normal territory, if a weapon is produced folks back away. If a weapon is fired, folks run. We aren’t dealing with organized squads of trained paramilitary. 
 

Even in Phoenix and Vegas I wasn’t carrying to win a protracted gun fight ….

[uhhello]

25 minutes ago, HossHarris said:

Nope. Nor do I hope to be. 
 

Around my normal territory, if a weapon is produced folks back away. If a weapon is fired, folks run. We aren’t dealing with organized squads of trained paramilitary. 
 

Even in Phoenix and Vegas I wasn’t carrying to win a protracted gun fight ….

You have a rosy outlook on violent encounters.  We aren't dealing with redcoats vs. colonial army rules of war either.

[Biff_T]

On 4/27/2024 at 6:34 PM, HossHarris said:

Nope. Nor do I hope to be. 
 

Around my normal territory, if a weapon is produced folks back away. If a weapon is fired, folks run. We aren’t dealing with organized squads of trained paramilitary. 
 

Even in Phoenix and Vegas I wasn’t carrying to win a protracted gun fight ….

The only thing I did with my M9 during OIF and OEF was drop it.   

Edit: But it was always on fire and pointed at the CP  Lol.   But for real.  

Edited April 29 by Biff_T

[FourFans]

On 4/26/2024 at 10:49 PM, brabus said:

G48 with a vortex defender is my carry gun. Put a better trigger on it to really up the awesomeness. I’ve also had good luck with Shield Arms S15 mags…31 rds on me at all times, even in shorts and t-shirt. 

I still haven't found a holster that I thoroughly like.  Currently an alien gear.  Thinking of trying the vnsh.  Any recommendations?

[FourFans]

21 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

9 mm ain't going anywhere anytime soon

I buy in bulk.  It'll be the best end of the world currency.

[herkbum]

I still haven't found a holster that I thoroughly like.  Currently an alien gear.  Thinking of trying the vnsh.  Any recommendations?

I have a VNSH. It’s ok but feels like overkill sometimes. It does give you options on location of carry. But it’s what I imagine wearing Spanx would feel like.


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[ClearedHot]

10 hours ago, HossHarris said:

Around my normal territory, if a weapon is produced folks back away. If a weapon is fired, folks run. We aren’t dealing with organized squads of trained paramilitary. 
 

Even in Phoenix and Vegas I wasn’t carrying to win a protracted gun fight ….

It used to be that people would run away but with drugs and emboldened criminals (not organized pararmilitary), I don't want to rely on brandishing a weapons to protect my family. 

30+ years ago I did brandish a weapon (sort of), that deterred someone...kind of a funny story.  I was home on leave and went shooting with a buddy.  I did not have a CCW and so I had my guns unloaded and packed in a bag on the passanger's side floor of one of my pickup truck.  I was on the highway in the right lane with my cruise control on when a car came racing up the on-ramp next to me.  There were several cars in the left lane so I could not move over and the on-ramp had a yield sign so I just maintained my pace.  The on-ramp car was really in a hurry and I guess he thought I should yield to him.  Once he got on the highway he came racing up behind me, there were a couple of guys in the car and they were honking and waving their arms in the air.  He became increasingly more aggressive so I reached over to the gun bag and the first weapon I put my hand on was a .44 Magnum revolver, I dropped a speed loader in and laid the gun on my lap.  The dude followed me off the highway and I could see I was going to get stuck at a traffic light so I move the left lane.  The dude pulled right up to me screaming and got out of his car, my window was down because the AC was out and in a flash he was trying to come through the passenger side window screaming at me.  In one motion I pulled the .44 up, pulled the hammer back and forcefully poked him in the forehead with the end of the barrel.  I was .69 seconds away from canoeing the dude and he just froze, hands inside my truck with the gun between his eyes...he stopped screaming and slowly backed out with his hands up.  I will never forgot the look on his face and I will never forget seeing a red circle in the middle of his forehead, I poked him so hard it left a little red ring.  The light changed green and I never saw the dude again.

[Lord Ratner]

3 hours ago, FourFans said:

I buy in bulk.  It'll be the best end of the world currency.

Do you mean 1,000 round packs, or do you mean true "bulk?" I haven't researched it there are even better deals in 5k and up range. Might be interesting to see if there's any opportunities is doing a group purchase of 100k+ rounds one day.

Part of me is resisting the urge to stock up too much right now because I think all of these toys are going to get cheaper as consumer spending slows. Of course that will be turned on its head if we get another military conflict somewhere that sucks up all the supply.

 

But I've noticed the sales are getting better and better on a range of products. Might be an early warning sign.

 

[brabus]

4 hours ago, FourFans said:

I still haven't found a holster that I thoroughly like.  Currently an alien gear.  Thinking of trying the vnsh.  Any recommendations?

I have a Crossbreed Supertuck IWB. Carry just behind hip. I can wear this thing for 12 hrs, including siting, driving, etc. and almost forget it’s there. Make sure you have a real gun belt to go with it. 

[brabus]

3 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

or do you mean true "bulk?"

Reloading…my bulk may not be all assembled at once, but I assure you it’s a sizable bulk. Come at me zombie bros!

[ClearedHot]

1 hour ago, Lord Ratner said:

Do you mean 1,000 round packs, or do you mean true "bulk?" I haven't researched it there are even better deals in 5k and up range. Might be interesting to see if there's any opportunities is doing a group purchase of 100k+ rounds one day.

Part of me is resisting the urge to stock up too much right now because I think all of these toys are going to get cheaper as consumer spending slows. Of course that will be turned on its head if we get another military conflict somewhere that sucks up all the supply.

 

But I've noticed the sales are getting better and better on a range of products. Might be an early warning sign.

 

A few years ago just as COVID was kicking off my buddy ordered 100K rounds of .223.  A truck delivered it to his house on two pallets.  I've been waiting for the ATF to pay him a visit ever since.

[brabus]

2 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

A few years ago just as COVID was kicking off my buddy ordered 100K rounds of .223.  A truck delivered it to his house on two pallets.  I've been waiting for the ATF to pay him a visit ever since.

That’s epic. How does one find that amount delivered without joining @Biff_T on the dark web?

[ClearedHot]

10 hours ago, brabus said:

That’s epic. How does one find that amount delivered without joining @Biff_T on the dark web?

Pecan farmer in middle Georgia, so pretty much the same thing.

[Boomer6]

12 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

Pecan farmer in middle Georgia, so pretty much the same thing.

Isn't @Biff_T harvesting Cheetos in NorCal?

[FourFans]

2 hours ago, Boomer6 said:

Isn't @Biff_T harvesting Cheetos cougars in NorCal?

FIFY

[Biff_T]

10 hours ago, Boomer6 said:

Isn't @Biff_T harvesting Cheetos in NorCal?

 

7 hours ago, FourFans said:

FIFY

Two things can be true at the same time.  

[VMFA187]

HK fan myself. Have a P2000SK for CCW, and a VP9 Tactical OR. Looking forward to the VP9SK, now that it is CA compliant, starting to hit dealers. 

[BFM this]

3 hours ago, VMFA187 said:

now that it is CA compliant,. 

I’ll take “Phrasing that is blessedly not part of my vernacular” for $800, Alex

[Sua Sponte]

4 hours ago, VMFA187 said:

HK fan myself. Have a P2000SK for CCW, and a VP9 Tactical OR. Looking forward to the VP9SK, now that it is CA compliant, starting to hit dealers. 

I love my VP9.

[JimNtexas]

What holster is recommended for concealed carry of a typical 9mm or .38 semi-automatic?

[uhhello]

20 minutes ago, JimNtexas said:

What holster is recommended for concealed carry of a typical 9mm or .38 semi-automatic?

The one that fits and is functional 🙂 Gotta try out what works for you and how you dress

[gearhog]

34 minutes ago, JimNtexas said:

What holster is recommended for concealed carry of a typical 9mm or .38 semi-automatic?

I have two Harry's holsters. Double clip reduces the rotation while moving without being too wide. Adjustable height and angle. You can swap clip to either side so it works with either hand, appendix, or small of the back carry.