AFSOC SMA killed by police in home

[ClearedHot]

There will most certainly be a bid for qualified immunity...no matter that the police do they always try to invoke it.

[Sua Sponte]

On 5/21/2024 at 5:56 AM, ClearedHot said:

There will most certainly be a bid for qualified immunity...no matter that the police do they always try to invoke it.

He isn’t law enforcement anymore. With this internal investigation ruling unreasonable he’s probably going to be indicted and qualified immunity is out the window to shield him away from civil lawsuits.

https://apnews.com/article/c616444086b39d20a80f35ba86ec531b

Edited May 31 by Sua Sponte

[ClearedHot]

28 minutes ago, Sua Sponte said:

He isn’t law enforcement anymore. With this internal investigation ruling unreasonable he’s probably going to be indicted and qualified immunity is out the window to shield him away from civil lawsuits.

https://apnews.com/article/c616444086b39d20a80f35ba86ec531b

He won't pay, he will likely be in jail for a long time. 

The tax payers of Okaloosa County on the other hand are going to pay millions.

[Sua Sponte]

2 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

He won't pay, he will likely be in jail for a long time. 

The tax payers of Okaloosa County on the other hand are going to pay millions.

He’ll pay something. The court will liquidate his assets, defer his tax returns, and he’ll probably be broke and homeless after he’s out of prison. I think he’ll get charged with manslaughter, which in Florida carries a maximum of 15 years.

[McJay Pilot]

You can’t make shit this up. Fortson’s younger brother was just shot and killed.

https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/16-year-old-dies-dekalb-county-apartment-shooting

[uhhello]

29 minutes ago, McJay Pilot said:

You can’t make shit this up. Fortson’s younger brother was just shot and killed.

https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/16-year-old-dies-dekalb-county-apartment-shooting

Yikes

[HeloDude]

10 hours ago, McJay Pilot said:

You can’t make shit this up. Fortson’s younger brother was just shot and killed.

https://www.fox5atlanta.com/news/16-year-old-dies-dekalb-county-apartment-shooting

“The preliminary investigation revealed two groups were shooting at each other.”

While this is horrible for the family, especially losing two children, this incident appears to be gang related, though of course I don’t know all the facts.  If so, when a 16 years old is involved with groups shooting at each other, my initial question comes down to parenting—who is allowing their 16 year old to be involved in such activity?  Unfortunately this is happens elsewhere in the country and it has to be fixed with better parenting.  

[DirkDiggler]

https://apple.news/A0EFuyJoGRdGIsHzXMlfNDg
 

Manslaughter charge for the Deputy responsible.

[tac airlifter]

It should be Murder 3 minimum.

[Smokin]

While I understand what you're getting at, any murder charge would almost certainly result in a not guilty verdict.  If this were the AFT airport manager case then I would agree, but manslaughter seems appropriate here.

[BFM this]

Handle of Don Julio ‘42 says he doesn’t see the inside of a jail cell.

Edited August 26 by BFM this

[Flev]

On 8/24/2024 at 7:56 PM, Smokin said:

While I understand what you're getting at, any murder charge would almost certainly result in a not guilty verdict.  If this were the AFT airport manager case then I would agree, but manslaughter seems appropriate here.

Yup. Murder has to be premeditated. Proving that in court beyond a reasonable doubt would be difficult.

Edit: Looks like in Florida it doesn't have to be. My bad and thanks tac airlifter!

Edited August 27 by Flev
Made a sweeping generalization

[tac airlifter]

On 8/24/2024 at 9:56 PM, Smokin said:

While I understand what you're getting at, any murder charge would almost certainly result in a not guilty verdict.  If this were the AFT airport manager case then I would agree, but manslaughter seems appropriate here.

You’re right.  Pisses me off though, cops shouldn’t be spring loaded to shoot anyone holding a weapon otherwise we have no right to bear arms.  “Officer safety” before “constitutional rights” is tyranny.

5 hours ago, Flev said:

Yup. Murder has to be premeditated. Proving that in court beyond a reasonable doubt would be difficult.

Not in Florida: Under Florida Statute 782.04(4), a person is guilty of murder in the third degree if they unintentionally kill another person while committing or attempting to commit a non-violent felony.

 

Edited August 27 by tac airlifter

[raimius]

17 hours ago, tac airlifter said:

You’re right.  Pisses me off though, cops shouldn’t be spring loaded to shoot anyone holding a weapon otherwise we have no right to bear arms.  “Officer safety” before “constitutional rights” is tyranny.

Not in Florida: Under Florida Statute 782.04(4), a person is guilty of murder in the third degree if they unintentionally kill another person while committing or attempting to commit a non-violent felony.

 

I don't think you can argue dumping half a magazine into a guy answering his door is unintentionally killing him.  I also don't know what non-violent felony the LEO would be charged with.  Thus, it would be tough to convict on that definition.

Edited August 27 by raimius
Spelling

[HeloDude]

14 hours ago, raimius said:

I don't think you can argue dumping half a magazine into a guy answering his door is unintentionally killing him.  I also don't know what non-violent felony the LEO would be charged with.  Thus, it would be tough to convict on that definition.

If you perceive someone as a threat, then that wouldn’t surprise me to use that many rounds…would it concern you if the LEO used that many rounds on a suspect who initially shot at him?  You shoot to stop the perceived threat, and if in that moment you rapidly fire off 7-8 rounds (or whatever) then that’s what it took.  The entire question is did the LEO act reasonably/within his legal scope when performing his duties in this situation.

[Biff_T]

He didn't have his finger on the trigger and the gun was pointed at the ground.  

That cop is gay.   

[contraildash]

I don't think you can argue dumping half a magazine into a guy answering his door is unintentionally killing him.  I also don't know what non-violent felony the LEO would be charged with.  Thus, it would be tough to convict on that definition.

The LEO forums out there are very disturbing in their take on all this. Basically gun=justified shooting. Several cops/deputies that I know have this paranoid, we are at war attitude. It’s always a really slimy discussion with them as they justify shootings like this one and even the acorn incident.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[raimius]

8 hours ago, HeloDude said:

If you perceive someone as a threat, then that wouldn’t surprise me to use that many rounds…would it concern you if the LEO used that many rounds on a suspect who initially shot at him?  You shoot to stop the perceived threat, and if in that moment you rapidly fire off 7-8 rounds (or whatever) then that’s what it took.  The entire question is did the LEO act reasonably/within his legal scope when performing his duties in this situation.

IF the guy had been an actual threat, he should fire as many rounds as it takes to end the threat...but looking at the video--there was no threat.

[tac airlifter]

2 hours ago, contraildash said:

The LEO forums out there are very disturbing in their take on all this. Basically gun=justified shooting. Several cops/deputies that I know have this paranoid, we are at war attitude. It’s always a really slimy discussion with them as they justify shootings like this one and even the acorn incident.

That's 100% right.  Many cops believe a mag dump into an innocent person in their home lawfully carrying was justified.  It's why I (emotionally) think a murder charge should be pursued although I acknowledge logically it would not likely be successful in court.

For clarity: I have no issues with multiple rounds fired.  If I've made the decision shoot, then shoot until threat is neutralized.  My issue is there was no threat; anyone who has completed basic shoot/no-shoot training would not have shot.  However, police departments intentionally teach that shooting if a weapon is "in hand" is appropriate.  People who teach that should be in prison, but I'll settle for their students.

[HeloDude]

35 minutes ago, raimius said:

IF the guy had been an actual threat, he should fire as many rounds as it takes to end the threat...but looking at the video--there was no threat.

Do you actually think he wanted to murder that person in that moment for no reason, or perhaps had wanted to murder anyone for no reason?  Or do you think he was just extremely negligent in performing his duties?

[ClearedHot]

15 hours ago, HeloDude said:

Do you actually think he wanted to murder that person in that moment for no reason, or perhaps had wanted to murder anyone for no reason?  Or do you think he was just extremely negligent in performing his duties?

I seriously doubt there was intent but obviously very negligent and a bias to shoot.  As discussed above there is an ideological war going on between the police and everyone else, partially fueled by the defund the police movement.  Routine traffic stops with  CCW holders almost always turn into a de-arming, the officer running your weapon, the officer unloading your weapon and instructions not to touch your weapon until the officer leaves the scene...all in the name of "officer safety."

This dude MUST be held accountable but I am surprised he is being held without bond on a Manslaughter charge, there must be more to the story.

[HeloDude]

31 minutes ago, ClearedHot said:

I seriously doubt there was intent but obviously very negligent and a bias to shoot.  As discussed above there is an ideological war going on between the police and everyone else, partially fueled by the defund the police movement.  Routine traffic stops with  CCW holders almost always turn into a de-arming, the officer running your weapon, the officer unloading your weapon and instructions not to touch your weapon until the officer leaves the scene...all in the name of "officer safety."

This dude MUST be held accountable but I am surprised he is being held without bond on a Manslaughter charge, there must be more to the story.

I agree with everything you said…my response was to Raimius who seemed to make the argument that the LEO was intentionally wanting to murder the guy, which I very much disagree unless there is clear evidence to the contrary.

[SocialD]

14 hours ago, contraildash said:

The LEO forums out there are very disturbing in their take on all this. Basically gun=justified shooting. Several cops/deputies that I know have this paranoid, we are at war attitude. It’s always a really slimy discussion with them as they justify shootings like this one and even the acorn incident.

 

Disturbing is an understatement.  

[M2]

Deputy Denied Bail

[ClearedHot]

32 minutes ago, M2 said:

Deputy Denied Bail

See above...