Delayed B Course Date

[NoFlyZone]

Just talked to a buddy who is casual at Laughlin who told me that any T38 grad going to a fighter will do a year in a heavy before going to the b course in an effort to reduce the FTU backup. Thoughts?

[Boomer6]

2 hours ago, NoFlyZone said:

Thoughts?

Go Guard.

[brabus]

3 hours ago, NoFlyZone said:

Just talked to a buddy who is casual at Laughlin who told me that any T38 grad going to a fighter will do a year in a heavy before going to the b course in an effort to reduce the FTU backup. Thoughts?

That can’t be true, makes zero sense….wait, never mind, par for the course. But seriously, even the math doesn’t add up - how long is a “heavy” FTU + MQT, seems like nearly a year would be burned doing that. The MAF squadron wouldn’t even get one deployment out of the guy before he left for the fighter b course.

[raimius]

4 hours ago, NoFlyZone said:

Just talked to a buddy who is casual at Laughlin who told me that any T38 grad going to a fighter will do a year in a heavy before going to the b course in an effort to reduce the FTU backup. Thoughts?

Not accurate.

Some fighter FTUs are backed up, and they are looking at dropping more heavies out of -38s, with potential cross-training back to 11F/11B after an assignment in the MAF/AFSOC world.

[Boomer6]

[hindsight2020]

These things ebb and flow. During the drought days of TAMI a companion COA was F-16 slotted folks (the worst backed up pipeline at the time) giving up the dream and going AFSOC/NsAv in lieu of continuing to rot in a banked status. Some took it (U-28s et al) , especially with the spectre of Tami-proper touching folks on the shoulder left and right of them in the backed up pipeline. Needs or the service and all that jazz.

Do concur with the advice of pursuing the ARC to the degree possible/available. Know folks who were able to recapture the dream that way, though it becomes a low percentage play they older you get on age and DOR alike.

[ViperStud]

AFPC can’t get out of their own way. Same shit happened in ~2010, with FTU backed up they basically didn’t drop Vipers for 18 months. Personnelists fixed the glitch and PCS’d, only to leave the 07-09 year groups with essentially no Viper pilots.

Lots of stupid 2nd/3rd order effects flow from those kind of poor decisions, not the least of which is some real mouth-breathers having a clear path to rank just because the AF desperately needs O-6s in their AFSC and year group.

[Vito]

 This reminds me of a Nav we had in the squadron. When he started drinking he would concoct an outrageous  rumor and start to spread it around the base.  A week later we would laugh at all the guys who knew swore they heard this from a WinngCC or higher source.

[SocialD]

A few of my classmates from Sheppard (circa 2008), waited over 400 days just to start IFF.  Some got over 150 hours of 38 time during their time on BIT.  This was back when the Eagle broke apart, vipers had the bulkhead crack issues and I think thr Hawg was having wing issues.  Some dudes gave up their fighter and went heavies as they didn't want to sit around again...many had sat around for a year or so to Stat pilot training.  

 

Sounds like history is repeating itself.  Plug one hole, another leak springs. 

[brabus]

2006 - sat for 6 months prior to UPT, followed by 13 months until IFF. 19 months of golf and gallons of beer…there’s worse things in life!

[guineapigfury]

10 hours ago, brabus said:

That can’t be true, makes zero sense….wait, never mind, par for the course. But seriously, even the math doesn’t add up - how long is a “heavy” FTU + MQT, seems like nearly a year would be burned doing that. The MAF squadron wouldn’t even get one deployment out of the guy before he left for the fighter b course.

It's been a while, but going through the KC-135 schoolhouse took about 6 months when I went through.

[SurelySerious]

It's been a while, but going through the KC-135 schoolhouse took about 6 months when I went through.

We’ve cut every training timeline by half since 1975, though.

[Majestik Møøse]

None of these legacy fighter pipeline problems matter. We’re moving forward with NGAD. Oh wait

[SurelySerious]

None of these legacy fighter pipeline problems matter. We’re moving forward with NGAD. Oh wait

We’ll just sim-only the entire NGAD. Skip all the years of time for the whole program and just put $1T in a contractor’s pocket.

[yzl337]

in no way shape or form would I expect to return to fighters after AFSOC, won't speak to MAF, but I know this has been discussed on the SOF side and there are no expectations of releasing folks once gained. 

[brwwg&b]

Seems like back when MC-12 and MQ-9 were single assignments with a "possibility" to recover to a CAF or MAF MWS after. Like then, I'm sure whatever plan they come up with now will be half-truths and probably more disappointments than victories.

I'd be surprised if MAF leadership lets someone come in, get trained, and leave within a year. EIther use them for a full assignment (like banking pilots in the early 90s) or I'd expect them to just kick to ACC to problem solve a la black jets etc...

Even Navy or Marine fighter exchanges would make more sense. Which probably means they'll just send people to be E-3 co's to ride the jets to the boneyard or something else equally stupid.

Edited August 25 by brwwg&b

[LookieRookie]

Holloman is a train wreck for manpower and maintenance, who would have thought.

[contraildash]

in no way shape or form would I expect to return to fighters after AFSOC

Once AFSOC has you, they won’t let you go.

‘We need to retain AFSOC talent’

[Ant-man]

On 8/24/2024 at 8:02 PM, NoFlyZone said:

Just talked to a buddy who is casual at Laughlin who told me that any T38 grad going to a fighter will do a year in a heavy before going to the b course in an effort to reduce the FTU backup. Thoughts?

There’s basically zero chance you’d get released back to a fighter if you’ve already been trained in a heavy platform. It’s hard enough to switch platforms in the same MAJCOM, let alone cross-MAJCOM. Once that heavy drops your name in an FTU class with a fixed number of spots per year and spends time and money training you, they’re gonna want a payback in the form of several years of flying in an ops squadron, and then the functional will want to keep you as a body to fill shortfalls within the community or white jets. The “promise” of a going back to a fighter will be a long-forgotten empty consolation for your hard work in UPT that was made by someone who is now no longer in your chain of command. 

[Clark Griswold]

Let them take PTDY, use GI Bill, go fly and get CFII, seaplane, tail dragger, etc… at school of their choice unless the AF has a cockpit to put them in after graduation


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[NoFlyZone]

Yeah I figured what you guys are saying is what would happen. Really sucks for anyone dropping heavies from 38s but obviously its not the first time and it definitely won't be the last. Funny to me that they say they need everybody going into 38s to go to a fighter but then they pull this BS... typical

[herkbier]

The 90s called, they want credit for this good idea. 

[Duck]

My class got hit with this same crap back in the day. 2 fighters out of 22 T-38 assignables. Fast forward and all the heavy and AFSOC guys are at an airline and only the two fighter dudes are left on AD. That first kick in the nuts woke a lot of us up on how important we were to the AF.


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[hindsight2020]

8 hours ago, Clark Griswold said:

Let them take PTDY, use GI Bill, go fly and get CFII, seaplane, tail dragger, etc… at school of their choice unless the AF has a cockpit to put them in after graduation


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Thing is, the inflection point is training completion. If the member wants out of the AF ASAP, it'd be more advantageous for him/her to start the ADSC clock by finishing UPT than it would be to get banked like in the 90s, awaiting initial training while in some other AFSC. Frankly, I'm surprised big blue hasn't in fact considered 90s styled banking in lieu of starting these people's ADSC clock.

Retention at this point is stipulated as a non-concern for big blue. It's not a business accountable to anyone but congressional pork, as such senior management can afford to be perfectly price-inelastic when it comes to the question of retention.

 

[Magnum]

This situation sucks but the 2 truths are that these pilots will never TX in mass (maybe a lucky 1 or 2) and the 4th gen FTU pipeline is not likely to get better.  The usaf doesn't care about retaining talent.  Can't make an IP until about the 1/2 way point in the adsc.  When most guys bail with their 1 FTU assignment complete, you, as an air force, are in a perpetual state of ipug.  Can't survive once your available #'s start decreasing, which happened about 10 years ago.  Either they up the bonus to $1M a year or the usaf will die a slow and painful death.