Enlisting for ANG fighters at 27

[ecc97]

I've seen some similar topics, but want to run by specific situation but all of you.  I've been trying to get hired by an ANG fighter unit for going on 5 years.  ~18 rushes and ~50 apps later, I've come up with nothing.  I'm of the mindset of fighters or bust (I know, I know), and as such, have started the process to enlist in one of my dream units.  Now, the paperwork has already started, so the die is cast on some level, but I guess I want to know if I just shot myself in the foot?

Background:

Legacy FO

5k+ hours (not that it matters)

Bachelors with a 3.8 GPA

AFOQT: P99 CSO99 ABM96 ACAD70 VERB79 QUANT56

PCSM: 94

[Stoker]

Not a fighter guy but I'd imagine that your age and job weigh heavily against you in fighter apps - hard to see you having high participation in the unit in four or five years when every day you show up is real money lost at the legacy. That gets worse, not better, with an enlistment and the at least a couple of years it would take to be eligible to commission.

You say you're fighters or bust, so you've probably accepted that that entails a significant risk of "bust," and that your desire to fly fighters outweighs your desire to fly military aircraft overall. Just be sure you know the answer to the question "Will I be happier in 10 years having done a single enlistment and separated, or having found a C-17 unit to join and flown that plane?"

[Magic24]

How many interviews have you received through rushing? What has the feedback been after rushing units?

 

Dude, enlisting at a unit when you’re already established at a legacy would be a huge gut punch going to BMT/tech school. You’ll be treated like you’re 18 regardless of being 27 and having a great career. Not worth it IMO! Instead of enlisting I would just rush that squadron and tell them this is where you want to be and you’re all in to that unit if fighters or bust. 
 

I did something similar and enlisted after I got my degree thinking it would increase my chances. At the end of the day I don’t think it really will. They will select who they want regardless if you enlisted at 27 or not. You’re still competing with younger enlisted folks in the unit, legacies, etc. Luckily, I applied elsewhere and got picked up. 

Lastly, I concur with Stoker! To fly in the military you need to want to be an officer first and truly want to serve your country(not saying you don’t) but if you truly want to fly and serve your country open your eyes to more than fighters or bust. There’s a lot more to it than ripping around in a Viper on Drill weekends once a month!

Feel free to PM me if you want!

Edited September 2 by Magic24

[Tarawa565]

Would not recommend enlisting to get a pilot slot. Would recommend enlisting if you want to wear your country's uniform, be involved in the airpower business, and continue your career. 

If you're 27 and you've done a good job rushing, then the unit already knows who you are. They aren't going to suddenly flip a switch and say "oh yeah, now that he's an E-3 in fuels we'll take him" 

I think by the time you've done enough enlisted time for it to make a difference (through pipeline, deployments, etc.) then your age at that time will offset any potential gain. 

But, congrats on choosing to wear our nation's uniform. If I were you, with the FO gig, I'd look into doing your enlistment (see if that scratches the military itch), and then focus on your civilian career. You might do a year two of active duty for the pipeline and say "this is the dumbest thing ever, thank god I didn't sign up for 10 years of this" and then bounce after your initial commitment. Or, you might say, "this rocks, I need to do this full time and fly" and then you need to apply to some heavy units as well since age will increasingly be an issue with fighters. 

[hindsight2020]

I had similar bad timing/unsuccessful at snagging a fighter unit spot when I was in my 20s, and I was in much worse econ position than you in that I wasn't making major FO money at such a young age, nor had the flying quals to be one during the lost decade.

I still wouldn't enlist for the sake of a UPT slot, it's a very low percentage play in the aggregate. Odds are you'll end up spinning your wheels and end up encumbered with the impositions of an enlisted job that isn't really going to add much to your primary income generation career.

As to fighter or die thing, I get it, I resembled the remark too. Given my experience with the process, and my own outcomes and history now as a middle aged guy within spitting distance of the jelly of the month, I know what advice I'd give you, if you weren't a major FO already.

..But you are one already. As such, I'd just focus on your airline career and fund the F1-rocket/Gamebird airplane fund if you can't get a fighter spot tbh. But I'm me, I'm not you. 

Good luck to ya.

Edited September 2 by hindsight2020

[ecc97]

9 hours ago, Magic24 said:

How many interviews have you received through rushing? What has the feedback been after rushing units?

 

Dude, enlisting at a unit when you’re already established at a legacy would be a huge gut punch going to BMT/tech school. You’ll be treated like you’re 18 regardless of being 27 and having a great career. Not worth it IMO! Instead of enlisting I would just rush that squadron and tell them this is where you want to be and you’re all in to that unit if fighters or bust. 
 

I did something similar and enlisted after I got my degree thinking it would increase my chances. At the end of the day I don’t think it really will. They will select who they want regardless if you enlisted at 27 or not. You’re still competing with younger enlisted folks in the unit, legacies, etc. Luckily, I applied elsewhere and got picked up. 

Lastly, I concur with Stoker! To fly in the military you need to want to be an officer first and truly want to serve your country(not saying you don’t) but if you truly want to fly and serve your country open your eyes to more than fighters or bust. There’s a lot more to it than ripping around in a Viper on Drill weekends once a month!

Feel free to PM me if you want!

I have not gotten any interviews.  Feedback typically varies between none at all, you're good, but not this year, and to rush more (even though the squadron website explicitly says rushing is not allowed).  I have gotten some actionable feedback in the form of improving my cover letter, but that was only really from one unit (the one I'm enlisting in).  Other units have said I'm SOL as far as they are concerned unless I enlist.  

I'm aware of the gut punch, both financially and job-positionally, and have prepared for both.  I've applied to some non-fighter units and have also come up with nothing. At this point, I want to serve in some way, I'm tired of waiting, and am not getting any younger.  

[ecc97]

5 hours ago, Tarawa565 said:

Would not recommend enlisting to get a pilot slot. Would recommend enlisting if you want to wear your country's uniform, be involved in the airpower business, and continue your career. 

If you're 27 and you've done a good job rushing, then the unit already knows who you are. They aren't going to suddenly flip a switch and say "oh yeah, now that he's an E-3 in fuels we'll take him" 

I think by the time you've done enough enlisted time for it to make a difference (through pipeline, deployments, etc.) then your age at that time will offset any potential gain. 

But, congrats on choosing to wear our nation's uniform. If I were you, with the FO gig, I'd look into doing your enlistment (see if that scratches the military itch), and then focus on your civilian career. You might do a year two of active duty for the pipeline and say "this is the dumbest thing ever, thank god I didn't sign up for 10 years of this" and then bounce after your initial commitment. Or, you might say, "this rocks, I need to do this full time and fly" and then you need to apply to some heavy units as well since age will increasingly be an issue with fighters. 

Some units have said they won't interview me unless I enlist, period dot.  The unit I'm going into guarantees an interview for internal enlisted personnel, which is more than can be said for my entire application history to this point.  

[ecc97]

2 hours ago, hindsight2020 said:

I had similar bad timing/unsuccessful at snagging a fighter unit spot when I was in my 20s, and I was in much worse econ position than you in that I wasn't making major FO money at such a young age, nor had the flying quals to be one during the lost decade.

I still wouldn't enlist for the sake of a UPT slot, it's a very low percentage play in the aggregate. Odds are you'll end up spinning your wheels and end up encumbered with the impositions of an enlisted job that isn't really going to add much to your primary income generation career.

As to fighter or die thing, I get it, I resembled the remark too. Given my experience with the process, and my own outcomes and history now as a middle aged guy within spitting distance of the jelly of the month, I know what advice I'd give you, if you weren't a major FO already.

..But you are one already. As such, I'd just focus on your airline career and fund the F1-rocket/Gamebird airplane fund if you can't get a fighter spot tbh. But I'm me, I'm not you. 

Good luck to ya.

I actually already fly warbirds, and am working on my FAST card (airshow formation qualification), but that's just burning avgas for the sake of burning avgas.  

Sure it's fun, sure it's challenging, but there's no mission, no greater purpose.  I just feel like a wannabe, and let's be real, there's nothing more pathetic than a wannabe.  Same with the major job.  Yes, it's financially wonderful, but there's no camaraderie, no particular challenge at this point, just time to get senior and fat.  

Stuck doing just that for the next 40 years and knowing I left a stone unturned (enlisting) would, at the risk of being melodramatic, haunt me for the rest of my life.  

Thanks.  

[brabus]

Based on age and the amount of effort you’ve put in without an interview, I don’t think enlisting is going to move the needle at all. Find a job you truly want to do in the ANG and go for that, but do not take a job because you think it’ll get you a pilot slot. I understand completely the desire for mission and something greater - go find that kickass E job and run with it for as long as you still enjoy it. 

[Flev]

19 minutes ago, brabus said:

Based on age and the amount of effort you’ve put in without an interview, I don’t think enlisting is going to move the needle at all. Find a job you truly want to do in the ANG and go for that, but do not take a job because you think it’ll get you a pilot slot. I understand completely the desire for mission and something greater - go find that kickass E job and run with it for as long as you still enjoy it. 

Second this. Enlisting for the sake of it isn't going to change much besides adding random responsibilities to your plate and wearing the uniform once a month. Shit, that unit might not even bat an eye at you if you're not around the ops group. It sounds like you don't just want to fly fighters. Fundamentally you want a change of pace.

Choose an AFSC that fulfills that desire to serve because I can tell you probably it won't come from a personnel or maintenance gig. Aircrew, AFSPECWAR, or medical (aeromed evac mainly) might be better choices. No matter what, it's your story to write, so make it something cool if you don't get that pilot slot.

[CaptainMorgan]

Also, if that memo from the SC ANG is accurate, it sounds like the ARC won’t be getting many/any UPT slots on the fighter side for a while.


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[brabus]

8 hours ago, CaptainMorgan said:

Also, if that memo from the SC ANG is accurate, it sounds like the ARC won’t be getting many/any UPT slots on the fighter side for a while.


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It’s accurate, and a good point. Timing and luck matter - fighter UPT slots are probable scarce for the next couple years at least. It’ll swing back, but who knows how long it’ll be. 

[Rated Flyer 4 Life]

On 9/2/2024 at 8:18 PM, ecc97 said:

I have not gotten any interviews.  Feedback typically varies between none at all, you're good, but not this year, and to rush more (even though the squadron website explicitly says rushing is not allowed).  I have gotten some actionable feedback in the form of improving my cover letter, but that was only really from one unit (the one I'm enlisting in).  Other units have said I'm SOL as far as they are concerned unless I enlist.  

I'm aware of the gut punch, both financially and job-positionally, and have prepared for both.  I've applied to some non-fighter units and have also come up with nothing. At this point, I want to serve in some way, I'm tired of waiting, and am not getting any younger.  

I’m not sure what is in your cover letter, but the only thing I can think of is maybe you’re coming across as too much of an airline guy on paper. You should definitely emphasize your military desires as much as possible in the cover letter, only mention you’re an airline pilot because you have to but otherwise everything else needs to be about how bad you want to be a military pilot.
 

With the current fighter situation and the amount of slots…I would seriously expand your search to the unsponsored reserve board or look into AFSOC OA-1K or ACC heavies like the HC-130J and do Spec Ops/Rescue if not fighters. Consider bombers as well. B-1 is not a bad option if you still want to fly fast…it just breaks a lot lol. 

Edited September 5 by Rated Flyer 4 Life

[Desayuno]

On 9/2/2024 at 5:41 AM, Stoker said:

Not a fighter guy but I'd imagine that your age and job weigh heavily against you in fighter apps - hard to see you having high participation in the unit in four or five years when every day you show up is real money lost at the legacy. That gets worse, not better, with an enlistment and the at least a couple of years it would take to be eligible to commission.

You say you're fighters or bust, so you've probably accepted that that entails a significant risk of "bust," and that your desire to fly fighters outweighs your desire to fly military aircraft overall. Just be sure you know the answer to the question "Will I be happier in 10 years having done a single enlistment and separated, or having found a C-17 unit to join and flown that plane?"

This. If you're so determined to fly fighters that you'll enlist in a unit and do something very much not flying, why not go fly a 17 or a Herk?