Moon Mission

[ClearedHot]

I am a total space geek and have been reading up on the upcoming mission back to the moon.  There is some SERIOUS turmoil in the community over the decisions that have been made.

The orbital mechanics are VERY different and is many ways, more risky mainly because the ARTEMIS does not have enough thrust (Delta V), to conduct the mission the same way as Apollo using a low lunar orbit.  Instead, they will use a near-rectilinear halo orbit (NHRO), which means there will be long periods that if something happens on the surface, they will have to wait for the return vehicle to come back in range. 

Apollo Flight Plans

ARTEMIS Flight Plans

NRHO Flight path.

The profile requires we launch into earth orbit, then launch a series of "tankers" to fuel the mission.  Interestingly we have NEVER done cryogenic refueling in space.  More concerning, we are two years from launch and they still don't know how many tankers they have to launch for this mission.  The latest NASA estimate is 15!!!

Thankfully they are not using the Boeing Starliner capsule, but Boeing is very involved with other parts of the project.

Cool to see us reaching out again but sucks that we can't do what we did 55 years ago!

[Lord Ratner]

Smarter Every Day on YouTube did a presentation (I believe to NASA) on this. It's a complete lack of seriousness within the space bureaucracy. There's no way this goes to plan, and a very good chance the decisions made will end up getting the program cancelled when budget woes rear their ugly head. 

 

Better hope Elon can carry the entire mission on his shoulders.

[ClearedHot]

19 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Smarter Every Day on YouTube did a presentation (I believe to NASA) on this. It's a complete lack of seriousness within the space bureaucracy. There's no way this goes to plan, and a very good chance the decisions made will end up getting the program cancelled when budget woes rear their ugly head. 

 

Better hope Elon can carry the entire mission on his shoulders.

Meanwhile Elon caught a booster in flight with a tower today on the FIRST try.  That was AMAZING!

 

[guineapigfury]

[busdriver]

22 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

Smarter Every Day on YouTube did a presentation (I believe to NASA) on this.

This presentation is really good.  Anyone who's spent enough time in the government/defense industry will see a lot of familiar stuff.

[Lord Ratner]

On 10/13/2024 at 10:58 AM, busdriver said:

This presentation is really good.  Anyone who's spent enough time in the government/defense industry will see a lot of familiar stuff.

Here's the video of anyone wants to watch. Also, if you have kids that watch YouTube, this is a channel to add to their whitelist.

 

 

[Lawman]

Meanwhile Elon caught a booster in flight with a tower today on the FIRST try.  That was AMAZING!
 

Yeah while I totally agree with the sentiment of skepticism at the lunar mission flight plan for Artemis….

This does make the cycling rate for launches to meet the refuel question way more within reach if they can replicate this success.

Truly amazing… imagine having all the modules on ground pre assembled and building something like the ISS in weeks/months instead of years/decades. Truly insane leap in what could be.


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[mp5g]

Such an on the nose reminder of what people are capable of when the government bureaucracy gets taken out of the process. I don’t know what it was like in the ‘60s to watch the leaps and bounds that NASA made towards manned space flight on the way to the Lunar landings, but I feel immense pride in watching SpaceX demonstrate good old American ingenuity. I love the “chip on the shoulder” attitude that we’re gonna do something completely unheard of in the history of the world. And why, because F*** you, we can. 

[FDNYOldGuy]

On 10/15/2024 at 8:10 PM, mp5g said:

Such an on the nose reminder of what people are capable of when the government bureaucracy gets taken out of the process. I don’t know what it was like in the ‘60s to watch the leaps and bounds that NASA made towards manned space flight on the way to the Lunar landings, but I feel immense pride in watching SpaceX demonstrate good old American ingenuity. I love the “chip on the shoulder” attitude that we’re gonna do something completely unheard of in the history of the world. And why, because F*** you, we can. 

Only caveat I'd say to the "government bureaucracy" aspect is that it was only government itself that what was capable of throwing massive amounts of money at something that had no profit motive to get it done in the 60's with NASA. We drove smart people into government/contracting fields that wanted to be part of something great. We had the fear motive with the USSR to keep the public behind it, thankfully, as it certainly would have been killed as government waste if not. Even with the great strides, it eventually was scaled way back when we handily beat them and the populace lost interest. Which sucks. 

The only reason, now, is that people with "F-you" money and huge egos can shake out their couch cushions and afford to fund space programs that are as close to rich-folk dick-measuring contests as anything. Sure, the outcome is great and competition does drive innovation, but there's also the point that the combined money spent by Musk/Besos/Branson may have avoided a lot of duplication of effort and competition for the brain-trusts and we could be further along if united. I also have some concerns with being beholden for massive amounts of government-utilized space tech to an individual (who gets richer off such contracts, too), but that is part of the game, I guess.  

Then again, what do I know? Honestly, I just wanted to post up a reply to you because I f-ing love your avatar, which brought me back and reminded me of one of my Top 10 movies as a kid. Kathy Ireland and "stick a spigot in that fat buddha over there..." are just a couple reasons that was an underrated gem. 

[ClearedHot]

On 10/15/2024 at 4:44 PM, Lawman said:

Yeah while I totally agree with the sentiment of skepticism at the lunar mission flight plan for Artemis….

This does make the cycling rate for launches to meet the refuel question way more within reach if they can replicate this success.

Truly amazing… imagine having all the modules on ground pre assembled and building something like the ISS in weeks/months instead of years/decades. Truly insane leap in what could be.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If they can do all these new things like on orbit cryogenic refueling.  Boeing can't even build a command module that works as well as a 50+ year old Apollo.

[Lawman]

If they can do all these new things like on orbit cryogenic refueling.  Boeing can't even build a command module that works as well as a 50+ year old Apollo.

Well in fairness, Boeing didn’t build the one for Apollo either North American did.

Guess those geniuses in Seattle should haven taken better notes over the decade they owned them before selling them off.


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[mp5g]

8 hours ago, FDNYOldGuy said:

Only caveat I'd say to the "government bureaucracy" aspect is that it was only government itself that what was capable of throwing massive amounts of money at something that had no profit motive to get it done in the 60's with NASA. We drove smart people into government/contracting fields that wanted to be part of something great. We had the fear motive with the USSR to keep the public behind it, thankfully, as it certainly would have been killed as government waste if not. Even with the great strides, it eventually was scaled way back when we handily beat them and the populace lost interest. Which sucks. 

The only reason, now, is that people with "F-you" money and huge egos can shake out their couch cushions and afford to fund space programs that are as close to rich-folk dick-measuring contests as anything. Sure, the outcome is great and competition does drive innovation, but there's also the point that the combined money spent by Musk/Besos/Branson may have avoided a lot of duplication of effort and competition for the brain-trusts and we could be further along if united. I also have some concerns with being beholden for massive amounts of government-utilized space tech to an individual (who gets richer off such contracts, too), but that is part of the game, I guess.  

Then again, what do I know? Honestly, I just wanted to post up a reply to you because I f-ing love your avatar, which brought me back and reminded me of one of my Top 10 movies as a kid. Kathy Ireland and "stick a spigot in that fat buddha over there..." are just a couple reasons that was an underrated gem. 

Yeah man, one of my favorites as a kid too. I don’t think Rob Schneider gets enough credit in that movie either. 

[ClearedHot]

11 hours ago, Lawman said:

Well in fairness, Boeing didn’t build the one for Apollo either North American did.

Guess those geniuses in Seattle should haven taken better notes over the decade they owned them before selling them off.


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Watch the video above...during Apollo NASA briefed progress to the community quarterly.  At the end the wrote a report telling the community how they did it, no one bothered to read it, instead the decided to completely reinvent the wheel.

[Lawman]

Watch the video above...during Apollo NASA briefed progress to the community quarterly.  At the end the wrote a report telling the community how they did it, no one bothered to read it, instead the decided to completely reinvent the wheel.

So like every after action review I’ve ever taken part in…


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[SurelySerious]

][emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]" timestamp="[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji6][emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]" name="Lawman" userid="[emoji[emoji6]][emoji6]"]
So like every after action review I’ve ever taken part in…


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I, for one, loved writing the same AAR points for the same exercises [emoji[emoji6]] years in a row.

[SurelySerious]

[emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]]]]" timestamp="[emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]]]]" name="Lawman" userid="[emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]]]"]
So like every after action review I’ve ever taken part in…


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I, for one, loved writing the same AAR points for the same exercises [emoji[emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]]]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]][emoji[emoji6][emoji[emoji6]]]]]]] years in a row.

Edit: mods sorry for the double post, wanted to see if whatever this is duplicated. iOS [emoji[emoji6]] for the win. [emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji6][emoji6].[emoji6][emoji6][emoji[emoji6]].jpg]

[McJay Pilot]

@SurelySerious it would appear the matrix has you. Remember, there is no spoon!

[SurelySerious]

[mention=7998]SurelySerious[/mention] it would appear the matrix has you. Remember, there is no spoon!

Now I am become spambot, destroyer of BaseOps.

[jrizzell]

Is this the wrong thread to say the reason we’ve never gone back to the moon, is because we never went in the first place

I kid I kid.

I can’t wait to see Elon do it years before NASA


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[SurelySerious]

][emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji6]" timestamp="[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji6]" name="jrizzell" userid="[emoji6][emoji6]"]Is this the wrong thread to say the reason we’ve never gone back to the moon, is because we never went in the first place [emoji[emoji6]]

I kid I kid.

I can’t wait to see Elon do it years before NASA


Sent from my iPhone using ]][emoji6][emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji6]]]Baseops Network mobile app

Wrong classification

[SurelySerious]

Just going to put myself in time out.

[FDNYOldGuy]

On 10/17/2024 at 10:21 PM, mp5g said:

Yeah man, one of my favorites as a kid too. I don’t think Rob Schneider gets enough credit in that movie either. 

Definitely great in that and before he jumped on the “Rob Schneider is a carrot,” train. He’s only overshadowed by Bob Uecker killing it in Major League; one of my absolute favorite 80’s movies.

 

[ClearedHot]

20 hours ago, SurelySerious said:

Just going to put myself in time out.

You do realize we have an edit function...

[SurelySerious]

][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]" timestamp="[emoji[emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]]" name="ClearedHot" userid="[emoji[emoji6]]"] You do realize we have an edit function...

Well when my app keeps inserting random characters throughout the draft I just typed…no I’m not going through and deleting all [emoji6][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]][emoji[emoji6][emoji6]] of them.