Trump's Cabinet

[blueingreen]

6 hours ago, Boomer6 said:

Copy, we disagree and will probably never agree. I think getting a conservative agenda passed and actually executed will require bipartisanship. If the GOP had a super majority that wouldn't necessarily be the case, but they don't.

To be clear, I agree with you in the sense that it would be awesome if we could have civil, nuanced, and principled debates in our legislature and other areas of government over the finer points of tax policy, environmental policy, military spending, etc. Ideally that's where we would be, or at least where we're going. But that's a far cry from where we're currently at, which is: Democrats and Republicans can't even agree on the definition of "man" or "woman." There's no way Democrats are going to support any kind of bipartisan bill that is hard on illegal immigration (we all saw that farce of a "bipartisan" immigration bill they tried to pass last year) or makes a real difference in other key policy areas that galvanizes people on the right. That's why I've adopted the more Machiavellian stance I outlined earlier. The courts and the Constitution will be there to keep things in check.

 

6 hours ago, Tarawa565 said:

 Moreover, he wound up saying, "only AfD can save Germany, end of story." The leader of the AfD is a far right politician who wants to "move beyond Germany's shame over Nazi-era atrocities" and whose grandfather was a Nazi judge. And, Musk is also from apartheid South Africa. If it talks like a duck and walks like a duck... (note, not saying he's a literal Nazi, but far-right authoritarianism and anti-immigration etc. are opposed to American ideals).

The leader of the AfD is a lesbian woman with a wife from Sri Lanka... I don't think she's trying to usher in the Fourth Reich. She wouldn't be allowed there! The party is quite moderate apart from its hardline stance on immigration, which is understandable considering the difficulties Germany has had with integrating and assimilating millions of refugees from the Middle East and North Africa. See today's stabbing spree by an Afghan refugee in Aschaffenburg, or the recent Christmas Market attack in Magdeburg which had 300+ casualties for example.

If you look back far enough, most Germans are going to have some "problematic" family ties. Some questions to ponder on that front: Is it wrong for Germans to want to move past an unequivocally shameful chapter in their history? If so, how long should that shame be held over their heads? Do we treat the Japanese or Italians the same way? When's the last time we shamed Mongolia for raping and pillaging half the world? The way I see it, people can't control who they're related to. If we applied similar logic here in America, we would have to disavow any American with family ties to the Confederacy / Old South (I'm thinking of people like Jimmy Carter, Mark Twain, Shelby Foote, Johnny Cash, etc). 

My understanding was that brow-beating people over the sins of their ancestors is the kind of thing that was rejected at the ballot box in November. Let's move onwards and upwards and focus on doing our best to improve conditions for the American people!

[uhhello]

Really hope Congress can pull its head from its ass and actually put some of these exec orders into law.  This shit is stupid.  Republicans lose in 4 years and new guy just comes in and rolls everything back.  I can't imagine the amount of bureaucracy and flail involved every 4 years getting some of this shit actually working.  

[Boomer6]

13 minutes ago, uhhello said:

Really hope Congress can pull its head from its ass and actually put some of these exec orders into law.  This shit is stupid.  Republicans lose in 4 years and new guy just comes in and rolls everything back.  I can't imagine the amount of bureaucracy and flail involved every 4 years getting some of this shit actually working.  

It's cool. We can just EO whatever we want and not worry about trying to work together for legislation. Treating the other half of America as an enemy worked well for Democrats so it'll work for us.

[Boomer6]

9 hours ago, Minimums said:

ADMIN NOTE: Spammer content deleted.

You're the reason we have moderators you 30min on the forum choad. Sorry, did I get your name wrong, vertigo, pawnman, negatory etc.

The adults are having a discussion.

[Boomer6]

2 minutes ago, Minimums said:

Does my input not count here? 

No, it doesn't.

Welcome to military aviation, you're new and your opinion doesn't matter. 

You're probably a previous troll who got butthurt and left the forum and now dropped a new username to continue being a choad.

[brabus]

@StoleIt Okay, well then I guess all of these people are also nazis…

 

 

But here’s the thing, while I vehemently disagree with, and greatly detest, each one of these individuals, I also have no valid reason to believe they are nazis. It takes very little critical thinking effort to assess these physical motions they made are not Nazi salutes or demo-ing some sort of support or allegiance to said group. It’s just not hard to conclude that…unless one either is overwhelmed with politically biased rage (critical thinking is inop), intellectually dishonest, or just a truly dumb person. 

Im happy to entertain actual evidence on anyone, including Elon or Trump, but it just doesn’t exist. The Nazi schtick is tired, overplayed, and the vast majority of America just see it as bullshit noise. But by all means the Dems should keep it up and help the GOP win more elections.

[brabus]

Swing and a miss. If you want to get all technical, then go watch literal millions of people not remotely touch their chest. Tons of videos from WW2 all over the internet that prove your statement completely false. I’m not saying nobody, hitler included, hasn’t touched a chest in the act, but the vast majority are not that way…but they also don’t support your cuckoo narrative, so you’ve ignored them and hoped the rest of us critical thinking capable people were too lazy to go look. You cannot say Elon is a nazi for this while ignoring the others, it’s all or nothing…or you’re just intellectually dishonest.

We also didn’t go to the moon and cows will cause the earth to implode, right?

Edited 14 hours ago by brabus

[blueingreen]

2 hours ago, Boomer6 said:

It's cool. We can just EO whatever we want and not worry about trying to work together for legislation. Treating the other half of America as an enemy worked well for Democrats so it'll work for us.

I know you're being facetious to illustrate a point and I get where you're coming from because I naturally share the same egalitarian impulse, but my genuine and heartfelt ask to you is: How do we accomplish bipartisanship in an era where the parties are diametrically opposed on so many key issues? Where and how do we on the right compromise without sacrificing our core values (and how can the left do that too)? 

You might not like governing by EO but the truth is that it was very effective for Democrats because they were able to reward their friends and punish their perceived enemies. Biden granted pre-emptive blanket pardons to his own friends and family for God's sake. Trump's EOs in just the past two days have already shifted the Overton Window rightwards significantly, and they've jump-started legal discussions and proceedings that might ultimately benefit the country in the long run. It seems better than just letting Democrats fight us tooth and nail, filibustering on every single issue, no matter how big or small. And let's not forget about all the ways that leftist bureaucrats surreptitiously hindered the 2016 Trump administration by going behind his back, obfuscating, or even outright lying to the POTUS about the state of affairs and what was within his executive purview. 

I know it's an age-old quandary and there's probably no right or wrong answer, but this is a classic case of "do the ends justify the means". Some means are certainly beyond the pail, but I don't think we're there yet.

Edited 13 hours ago by blueingreen

[dream big]

On 1/22/2025 at 5:45 AM, disgruntledemployee said:

I don't have EMDS (E. Musk Deranged Syndrome), and I think he should stick to cars , but I saw the video and it looks pretty close to a Hitler move.  I bet if any of us did that at work tomorrow, a bunch of us might be out of a job, even if we say, my heart goes out to you.  He's getting roasted for it, which I think is a good thing.  It should remind him to know better, unless of course, he did it intentionally.  And that too is a bad look.  And silencing the critics just makes more noise.

Probably, 

 

9 hours ago, Tarawa565 said:

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills with this Musk thing. It's in no way comparable to any normal human gesture. If you're in the military, the most support you should offer is, "Yeah, I don't know what he was trying to do but sure looks bad to me. Hope he doesn't do it again." 

Sure, he clearly has some issues - so maybe it's literally just him being on the spectrum. We can still condemn it because, checks notes, not all autistic people are cozy with symbols of far right authoritarianism. Moreover, he wound up saying, "only AfD can save Germany, end of story." The leader of the AfD is a far right politician who wants to "move beyond Germany's shame over Nazi-era atrocities" and whose grandfather was a Nazi judge. And, Musk is also from apartheid South Africa. If it talks like a duck and walks like a duck... (note, not saying he's a literal Nazi, but far-right authoritarianism and anti-immigration etc. are opposed to American ideals)

All that to say, he's at best an idiot and at worst a want-to-be authoritarian. Henry Ford would be proud. Either way, we all support and defend the Constitution, not any one party or any individuals. 

 

Good god nobody here is supporting it, we just aren’t dumb enough to take it out of context. 

[TreeA10]

Congratulations! You outed a Nazi!  Somehow, Musk had given hundreds of speeches, been subject to thousands of hours of video recording, been followed by countless reporters recording his numerous meandering thoughts, been the subject of multiple documentaries, and, yet, cleverly concealed his Nazi leanings but your detailed analysis of a couple seconds of video finally broke the code and you figured it all out.  Genius!

[slc]

Show me on the doll wear Elon touched you

[herkbum]

Netanyahu weighs in


[/url]


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network mobile app

[TreeA10]

Wow.  So attributes of a Nazi are giving money to causes you support and fathering children with the help. So George Soros is a Nazi?  How about Doug Emhof banging the nanny?  Nazi behavior there to, I suppose.  Sounds like you are grasping at straws which I'm sure are paper, not plastic.  Where can I get one of these magic Nazi behavior decoder rings?

 

[BashiChuni]

the media nazi smear is so played out.

[disgruntledemployee]

Well, that'll about cover the Nazi flyby.  But really, dude should know better.

With Vivek departing Doge and it's just Elon in this made up, no public overnight, do what I want office, I give it until Thanksgiving before Musk and Trump become bitter enemies.  Elon ditched Vivek pretty quickly, and his ego has to be bigger than Trump's, so while it seems two heavy fast trains are chugging side by side, ego will loop those tracks into a head on collision. That's 308 days away.

[HeloDude]

2 minutes ago, disgruntledemployee said:

Well, that'll about cover the Nazi flyby.  But really, dude should know better.

With Vivek departing Doge and it's just Elon in this made up, no public overnight, do what I want office, I give it until Thanksgiving before Musk and Trump become bitter enemies.  Elon ditched Vivek pretty quickly, and his ego has to be bigger than Trump's, so while it seems two heavy fast trains are chugging side by side, ego will loop those tracks into a head on collision. That's 308 days away.

Well your previous predictions regarding Trump were pretty accurate…oh wait.

[tac airlifter]

1 hour ago, BashiChuni said:

the media nazi smear is so played out.

“Nazi” is the new “racist:” a cheap attempt to win arguments by dismissing the messenger.

[pbar]

2 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

the media nazi smear is so played out.

No kidding.  I was surprised to learn it goes all the way back to Harry Truman against Thomas Dewey in 1948.  If the Republicans were actual Nazis, one would think they would have been able to impose a fascist state in the intervening nearly 80 years...  

[SpeedOfHeat]

11 hours ago, brabus said:

@StoleIt Okay, well then I guess all of these people are also nazis…

This meme is so idiotic.  All this talk about Elon's gesture being "taken out of context."  Ok, here's some relevant context:  

First and most glaring, these pictures are stills.  Screenshot as their hands happened to be up during a speech, or while being welcomed on stage.  GMAFB.  It's a far cry from the video of Elon.  His hand to chest, and vigorously, with front-tooth overbite, hard saluting.  Twice.  Sorry, but motion and intensity matter.  Body language matters.  Expressions matter.

The other thing that matters, concerning context, is the audience.  MAGA vs. the lefty's in the meme.  As I heard it put the other day, "Not every Trump voter is a white supremacist.  But, every white supremacist is a Trump voter."  There's a perception among many that the MAGA movement is, among other things, inherently racist.  ....Not sure if that's a news flash to anyone.  (*I am not, before you blow a gasket, claiming that Trump or Elon (or you) are racist.  Only that it's a widely held view that many of their supporters are, not incidentally because of their actions, words, chants, clothing choices, endorsements, etc.)  Does the same core perception exist towards Elizabeth Warren supporters or Taylor Swift fans?  No.

Beyond the stupid (....and I mean truly eye-roll-inducing) meme, the disturbing part of the response to Elon's gesture is the absolute refusal to criticize Trump or his minions.  No matter what.  MAGA folks won't offer even the faintest hint of doubt or disapproval, and this is why another core perception of MAGA is that it's a cult, or cult-like.

Just try it.  Once.  Try criticizing a decision or an action of Trump (or Elon or Vance, etc.).  You can make it a really gentle criticism to start.  Doubt, in the form of a question, works as a really soft, muted criticism for recovering cultists.  For example, try asking "...gee, should he have done that?"  See how it feels.  Then graduate to sandwiching a weak criticism between two strong compliments to continue easing into it.

The thinking among most people has become totally dualistic and binary, and it's a serious problem.  You don't have to say you're certain that he's a literal Nazi.  And you also don't have to try to defend him completely.  Try saying "Wow....that looked a little messed up."  or "I agree.  That was really strange.  I wish he hadn't done that." or "Elon is a little weird and spectrum-y.  I hope he gets some media counseling in this new role so this doesn't happen again." 

You'll know you've made significant progress when you can admit something simple like that and then say nothing else.  In other words, without also making a comparison to a leftist policy or a "what about..." concerning a democrat. 

You can still support Trump and Elon.  It's ok.  Every human has faults and makes mistakes.  If those mistakes are acknowledged, good things happen.  They can be held to account for them and improve.  On the other hand, if the Dear Leader and his friends are excused from any and everything, ......if we do things like pretend that Taylor Swift waving to an audience of gushing teenyboppers is the same as Elon's gesture to MAGA fanatics.......then those leaders become even more self-righteous and untouchable.  The divide in our country grows, and each side becomes more cult-like.

[HeloDude]

TDS ^^^^

[blueingreen]

@SpeedOfHeat Nobody's endorsing roman salutes / sieg heil's here. We all said it was awkward and would get most people in trouble in a professional or even casual social environment, but there is literally no evidence beyond this one hand gesture that Elon is a nazi, and the evidence is circumstantial at best. A quick look at your post history reveals that you've got quite the axe to grind with Trump and his supporters. Calling people "MAGA fanatics" for showing up to an Inauguration Day speech is quite the stretch. Get serious.

[Smokin]

22 minutes ago, SpeedOfHeat said:

This meme is so idiotic.  All this talk about Elon's gesture being "taken out of context."  Ok, here's some relevant context:  

First and most glaring, these pictures are stills.  Screenshot as their hands happened to be up during a speech, or while being welcomed on stage.  GMAFB.  It's a far cry from the video of Elon.  His hand to chest, and vigorously, with front-tooth overbite, hard saluting.  Twice.  Sorry, but motion and intensity matter.  Body language matters.  Expressions matter.

The other thing that matters, concerning context, is the audience.  MAGA vs. the lefty's in the meme.  As I heard it put the other day, "Not every Trump voter is a white supremacist.  But, every white supremacist is a Trump voter."  There's a perception among many that the MAGA movement is, among other things, inherently racist.  ....Not sure if that's a news flash to anyone.  (*I am not, before you blow a gasket, claiming that Trump or Elon (or you) are racist.  Only that it's a widely held view that many of their supporters are, not incidentally because of their actions, words, chants, clothing choices, endorsements, etc.)  Does the same core perception exist towards Elizabeth Warren supporters or Taylor Swift fans?  No.

Beyond the stupid (....and I mean truly eye-roll-inducing) meme, the disturbing part of the response to Elon's gesture is the absolute refusal to criticize Trump or his minions.  No matter what.  MAGA folks won't offer even the faintest hint of doubt or disapproval, and this is why another core perception of MAGA is that it's a cult, or cult-like.

Just try it.  Once.  Try criticizing a decision or an action of Trump (or Elon or Vance, etc.).  You can make it a really gentle criticism to start.  Doubt, in the form of a question, works as a really soft, muted criticism for recovering cultists.  For example, try asking "...gee, should he have done that?"  See how it feels.  Then graduate to sandwiching a weak criticism between two strong compliments to continue easing into it.

The thinking among most people has become totally dualistic and binary, and it's a serious problem.  You don't have to say you're certain that he's a literal Nazi.  And you also don't have to try to defend him completely.  Try saying "Wow....that looked a little messed up."  or "I agree.  That was really strange.  I wish he hadn't done that." or "Elon is a little weird and spectrum-y.  I hope he gets some media counseling in this new role so this doesn't happen again." 

You'll know you've made significant progress when you can admit something simple like that and then say nothing else.  In other words, without also making a comparison to a leftist policy or a "what about..." concerning a democrat. 

You can still support Trump and Elon.  It's ok.  Every human has faults and makes mistakes.  If those mistakes are acknowledged, good things happen.  They can be held to account for them and improve.  On the other hand, if the Dear Leader and his friends are excused from any and everything, ......if we do things like pretend that Taylor Swift waving to an audience of gushing teenyboppers is the same as Elon's gesture to MAGA fanatics.......then those leaders become even more self-righteous and untouchable.  The divide in our country grows, and each side becomes more cult-like.

Seriously?  You really think anyone that supports Trump Or Musk is incapable of criticizing them?  Look back through this forum alone and you will find many people that voted for Trump (like me) criticizing his policies and him personally.  Not just once or twice, but repeatedly. 

Give you a break?  How about give us a break from this stupidity.  What else has Musk done that would make you think he has any Nazi sympathies?  And if he did, do you really think that a guy as intelligent as Musk would be stupid enough to make a Nazi salute at a large event where there had to be dozens if not hundreds of people filming it?  This whole thing is an absurd witch hunt.  The left hates them, so is willing to grasp at any straw to say that they're evil.  Remember it is the Democratic big cities that were holding Anti-Israel rallies where many people were chanting death to Israel.  Did you hear anyone calling Biden a Nazi because of that?  Also, not all Democrats are Islamic terrorists, but all Islamic terrorists are Democrats and there's a perception (far more obvious and objectively quantifiable than the MAGA movement) that the liberal movement in America is inherently racist.  See how dumb that sounds?  Bad sections of society support both parties.  Constantly bringing those bad actors up in relation to the entire party is nothing but an elementary smear.

You said that you're not calling Musk or us racists, but you're implying that he's a Nazi or at least a Nazi sympathizer since he gave a "Nazi salute" in the middle of a speech, so you're implying that he's a racist.  And it would be difficult to support an overt racist without being racist yourself.  Stop pretending that you're taking the high road by "not... claiming that Trump or Elon (or you) are racist" when your post clearly implies the opposite.

[ClearedHot]

One aspect of this idiotic argument that has bothered me since day one is turning the acronym MAGA into a bad thing. 

What is so wrong with making America great again?  It hit a nerve and the left knew it, they controlled much of the press so suddenly it became racist to want America to be great.  Pure insanity.