USAFA Conscientious Objector

[JimNtexas]

I think any AFA or AFROTC scholarship cadet who has been a cadet in the current far left environment should be allowed to graduate and go forth as a civilian.  We don't need those misguided kids in our Air Force.

[Sua Sponte]

On 11/29/2024 at 5:19 PM, JimNtexas said:

I think any AFA or AFROTC scholarship cadet who has been a cadet in the current far left environment should be allowed to graduate and go forth as a civilian.  We don't need those misguided kids in our Air Force.

Same, however tax payers shouldn’t be on the hook to foot the bill for their education.

[JimNtexas]

On 12/1/2024 at 6:50 PM, Sua Sponte said:

Same, however tax payers shouldn’t be on the hook to foot the bill for their education.

I kinda like Eon’s idea to let any GS employee to get two years of paid leave in exchange for waving any right to reemployment.  I think both the country and the individuals would be better off if  these people went to the private sector 

[Sua Sponte]

2 hours ago, JimNtexas said:

I kinda like Eon’s idea to let any GS employee to get two years of paid leave in exchange for waving any right to reemployment.  I think both the country and the individuals would be better off if  these people went to the private sector 

As a current GS that’s a retarded idea. Of course he wants to fire federal employees and privatize it, those government contracts are guaranteed money. I think the country would be served better if the most worthless federal employees known as Congress pass and actual budget and fix social security, which is their job to do. 

[Boomer6]

As a general gameplan, the idea of cleaning house of worthless GS employees sounds like a great idea. Not a commentary on anything musk is saying. However, the amount of virtually un-fireable parasites sucking the blood of the DoD is disgusting. The stories I've heard from bros working in that world and the crap I've personally witnessed makes me sick. 

A reform of the GS sector is well overdue. Lockheed and Boeing are famous for bending over the DoD, but the shit bag GSers are the undiagnosed clap.

[Sua Sponte]

53 minutes ago, Boomer6 said:

As a general gameplan, the idea of cleaning house of worthless GS employees sounds like a great idea. Not a commentary on anything musk is saying. However, the amount of virtually un-fireable parasites sucking the blood of the DoD is disgusting. The stories I've heard from bros working in that world and the crap I've personally witnessed makes me sick. 

A reform of the GS sector is well overdue. Lockheed and Boeing are famous for bending over the DoD, but the shit bag GSers are the undiagnosed clap.

I'm a Supervisor GS. It's not impossible to fire federal employees; it's just a lot easier to fire them if they're on probation and before they hit three years of service. Before I was a GS, I was a contractor for FlightSafety working on the KC-46 program. I've seen idiots on both sides of the meeting table. You know what's sucking the blood out of the DoD? Boeing, Lockheed, and other major government contractors are underperforming, underdelivering, and not meeting timelines. 

[Boomer6]

37 minutes ago, Sua Sponte said:

I'm a Supervisor GS. It's not impossible to fire federal employees; it's just a lot easier to fire them if they're on probation and before they hit three years of service. Before I was a GS, I was a contractor for FlightSafety working on the KC-46 program. I've seen idiots on both sides of the meeting table. You know what's sucking the blood out of the DoD? Boeing, Lockheed, and other major government contractors are underperforming, underdelivering, and not meeting timelines. 

I know it's not impossible, but the amount of documention and work required to get it done needs to change. Our security shouldn't be a jobs program, period. 

The ppl that need to be shown the door are well past the 3 year point. They're protected by the system, sometimes lazy sups, and sometimes the good ol' boy network. No argument about idiots on both sides.

The big three are meat cleavers to the soft underbelly of DoD, but the GS bureaucracy is death by 1,000 cuts. Google claims 1.5 million GS workers, with an average pay of $70K/year. If 10% of them are worthless/actively standing in the way of progress (like at the puzzle palace) then that's $10.5 billion a year were wasting on these leeches..

Edited January 3 by Boomer6

[Sua Sponte]

12 minutes ago, Boomer6 said:

I know it's not impossible, but the amount of documention and work required to get it done needs to change. Our security shouldn't be a jobs program, period. 

The ppl that need to be shown the door are well past the 3 year point. They're protected by the system, sometimes lazy sups, and sometimes the good ol' boy network. No argument about idiots on both sides.

The big three are meat cleavers to the soft underbelly of DoD, but the GS bureaucracy is death by 1,000 cuts. Google claims 1.5 million GS workers, with an average pay of $70K/year. If 10% of them are worthless/actively standing in the way of progress (like at the puzzle palace) then that's $10.5 billion a year were wasting on these leeches..

I bet those 1.5 GS workers also include the Technicians/ARTs in the ANG/AFRC.

[brabus]

You could safely fire 60% of the GS population at Eglin tomorrow, for example, and not only would a lot of money be saved, the productivity would skyrocket. You could fire about 90% of the GS on staff and things would be a 69 times better. There are good GS dudes out there, but they are the minority. I’d love to see a decimation of that workforce demographic - no offense to the good ones. They will easily stay in such a hypothetical because it’s extremely easy to know who is good, as they clearly stick out amongst all the turds. 

[HossHarris]

13 hours ago, Sua Sponte said:

As a current GS that’s a retarded idea. Of course he wants to fire federal employees and privatize it, those government contracts are guaranteed money. I think the country would be served better if the most worthless federal employees known as Congress pass and actual budget and fix social security, which is their job to do. 

I don’t think they want to privatize what no loss govt employees are (not) doing. 
 

i think just just want to get rid of them outright. No replacement. No shift to privatization.  Just trim a bunch of useless bodies off the payroll. 
 

they want to fix the glitch. 

[ClearedHot]

9 hours ago, Boomer6 said:

As a general gameplan, the idea of cleaning house of worthless GS employees sounds like a great idea. Not a commentary on anything musk is saying. However, the amount of virtually un-fireable parasites sucking the blood of the DoD is disgusting. The stories I've heard from bros working in that world and the crap I've personally witnessed makes me sick. 

A reform of the GS sector is well overdue. Lockheed and Boeing are famous for bending over the DoD, but the shit bag GSers are the undiagnosed clap.

Shack...a truly maddening story from my time as an O-6 commander.

GS-13 employee is in charge of processing security clearances at the wing...office was actually in the wing HQ.  Dude has a severe drinking problem and had several documented issues with discipline actions but never a suspension.  He leaves work each day around 1100 to go drink at the local VFW.  Anonymous complainant turns him in and an investigation is opened.  Dude has a very distinctive yellow Bumble Bee Camaro that is seen parked outside the VFW everyday for MONTHS on end.  As I recall OSI documents 37 occasions where he completes his time card saying a full day of work but actually works four hours then spends the rest of the day drinking at the VFW....pictures, time stamps, the works for what should be a slam dunk case.   Charges filed and process starts to fire him, he throws the "I am an alcoholic card" and goes into treatment...the union decides to protect him.  Coming out of treatment he comes back to work but his security clearance is revoked and his position requires a clearance.  Union fights for him all the way to SECAF who ultimately restores his clearance after him pushing papers as an admin for 18 months while someone else did his work.  I am told he worked four more years then retired with his pension.

[Prosuper]

As a retired E-7 and now retired WG-11, contractor I've seen many useless POS's who would just show so they don't get fired. From what I have experienced the only way a federal employee can get fired is not showing up to work while having zero balance or -neg balance in leave or sick time. Knew one guy who was so far in the hole when he was at work, the hours went to paying back the government for time owed.  On the other side of the equation, I worked with a man who had over a year of sick time in the bank but never used them. He retired but didn't live to enjoy the time off.  I bet most of you met him while filing a flight plan at KTIK Base ops during your UPT days.

[TreeA10]

Data from about 5 years ago showed the governor of PA as the highest paid governor at @ $200k.  At that time, there were approximately 130,000 federal employees that made more than the highest paid governor in the U.S.  Fauci was the highest paid at @ $416k.  Are we getting our taxpayers moneys worth out of these people?

[disgruntledemployee]

The moment GS positions are cut at a mil base, the state and federal level politicians lose their shit, both sides.  They get on news and call the move outrageous, etc.  Case in point, look up when DoD deleted JFCOM.  However, about half of those cats were contractors. 

Early in my career, I spent some time around an office that lost it's work.  Most of the workers were GSers.  So they came in everyday and literally did nothing.  Some tried to find busy work, rest played on the internet, and a SrA flirted with a married woman so much her husband left her.  

Point being, some of those GS are hired to do dumb things.  I think we should try getting rid of the dumb things and not put it back on mil dudes.  Just hit delete.

[Stoker]

On 1/3/2025 at 11:03 AM, TreeA10 said:

Data from about 5 years ago showed the governor of PA as the highest paid governor at @ $200k.  At that time, there were approximately 130,000 federal employees that made more than the highest paid governor in the U.S.  Fauci was the highest paid at @ $416k.  Are we getting our taxpayers moneys worth out of these people?

We as a society have made a serious mistake in being okay with our highest government positions (judges/justices, congresspeople, state reps, etc.) poorly paid. 

Fauci has a lot of flaws, but the requirements to fill Fauci's position are pretty much "world-renowned physician-administrator willing to live in the DC metro area."  $416k seems like a bargain for that when senior physicians at pretty much any major hospital are making that.

[nsplayr]

3 hours ago, Stoker said:

We as a society have made a serious mistake in being okay with our highest government positions (judges/justices, congresspeople, state reps, etc.) poorly paid. 

Fauci has a lot of flaws, but the requirements to fill Fauci's position are pretty much "world-renowned physician-administrator willing to live in the DC metro area."  $416k seems like a bargain for that when senior physicians at pretty much any major hospital are making that.

This.

My best unpopular opinion is that we should pay our elected leaders significantly more; it would cut down on corruption and also attract better folks to those positions.

Right now you either have to be independently wealthy, a real political zealot, or corrupt (or any combination of those!) to run for office.

I, a dickhead O4 in the Guard, make more than the two United States Senators from my state, how wild is that? Top it off with the fact that I don't have to talk to reporters, maintain a household in my state + live part-time in DC, get a load of shit on social media (I do that part for free! 😇), etc. These people are making extremely important, impactful decisions for our country and we have not set up this system well for them.

It's then no surprise why so few "normal," down to earth folks are in elected office - the pros/cons just do not work out in favor of going down that path unless you fit any or multiple of my three criteria above.

Edit to add: same story re: cops & also teachers (to cross-post from another thread). Low comp + tough environment = shitty people and/or "true believer" / martyers. The good ones get burned out and leave, the bad ones stay, some good ones who stay are fighting uphill in the snow both ways. This is America and money talks...you wanna pay $60K for a super full-time gig wrangling feral children or the dregs of society out there tweaking on drugs? Sane people say no and become project managers for construction companies or sell insurance or fly airplanes instead.

Edited January 5 by nsplayr

[SurelySerious]

This.
My best unpopular opinion is that we should pay our elected leaders significantly more; it would cut down on corruption and also attract better folks to those positions.
Right now you either have to be independently wealthy, a real political zealot, or corrupt (or any combination of those!) to run for office.
I, a dickhead O4 in the Guard, make more than the two United States Senators from my state, how wild is that? Top it off with the fact that I don't have to talk to reporters, maintain a household in my state + live part-time in DC, get a load of shit on social media (I do that part for free! ), etc. These people are making extremely important, impactful decisions for our country and we have not set up this system well for them.
It's then no surprise why so few "normal," down to earth folks are in elected office - the pros/cons just do not work out in favor of going down that path unless you fit any or multiple of my three criteria above.
Edit to add: same story re: cops & also teachers (to cross-post from another thread). Low comp + tough environment = shitty people and/or "true believer" / martyers. The good ones get burned out and leave, the bad ones stay, some good ones who stay are fighting uphill in the snow both ways. This is America and money talks...you wanna pay $60K for a super full-time gig wrangling feral children or the dregs of society out there tweaking on drugs? Sane people say no and become project managers for construction companies or sell insurance or fly airplanes instead.

Representation was not a full time job. I’m ok with it not paying like one. Paying very well (let’s not kid ourselves about a Senator’s salary) is how you get Bernie Sanders, who has never had a professional job aside from being an elected official, yet has three houses. I’ll buy more pay for specialized fields, but not a part time job.

[Clark Griswold]

This.
My best unpopular opinion is that we should pay our elected leaders significantly more; it would cut down on corruption and also attract better folks to those positions.
Right now you either have to be independently wealthy, a real political zealot, or corrupt (or any combination of those!) to run for office.
I, a dickhead O4 in the Guard, make more than the two United States Senators from my state, how wild is that? Top it off with the fact that I don't have to talk to reporters, maintain a household in my state + live part-time in DC, get a load of shit on social media (I do that part for free! ), etc. These people are making extremely important, impactful decisions for our country and we have not set up this system well for them.
It's then no surprise why so few "normal," down to earth folks are in elected office - the pros/cons just do not work out in favor of going down that path unless you fit any or multiple of my three criteria above.
Edit to add: same story re: cops & also teachers (to cross-post from another thread). Low comp + tough environment = shitty people and/or "true believer" / martyers. The good ones get burned out and leave, the bad ones stay, some good ones who stay are fighting uphill in the snow both ways. This is America and money talks...you wanna pay $60K for a super full-time gig wrangling feral children or the dregs of society out there tweaking on drugs? Sane people say no and become project managers for construction companies or sell insurance or fly airplanes instead.

100% agree
These 535+ odd balls we call Congress and the Executive Branch are in charge of a 6+ trillion dollar budget, the worlds most powerful military, intelligence and security apparatus and craft legislation controlling the world’s largest economy
Pay them accordingly and STRICTLY restrict and monitor their finances and immediate family finances. No insider trading, no deal making but I have no problem with them making an almost bribe proof base salary and benefits to attract best/brightest
A Congressman should be paid 1 million plus performance bonuses for a balanced/surplus budget, appropriation bills passed X days before the end of the FY, etc…

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[TreeA10]

11 hours ago, Stoker said:

We as a society have made a serious mistake in being okay with our highest government positions (judges/justices, congresspeople, state reps, etc.) poorly paid. 

Fauci has a lot of flaws, but the requirements to fill Fauci's position are pretty much "world-renowned physician-administrator willing to live in the DC metro area."  $416k seems like a bargain for that when senior physicians at pretty much any major hospital are making that.

I failed to direct attention to the point I wanted to emphasize.  It's not the money but the number of people: 130,000.  I agree the government should attract and retain qualified people but I'm trying to wrap my cranium around the need for 130,000 that are being paid more than a governor who deals with the complex running of a state.  

[Stoker]

2 minutes ago, TreeA10 said:

I failed to direct attention to the point I wanted to emphasize.  It's not the money but the number of people: 130,000.  I agree the government should attract and retain qualified people but I'm trying to wrap my cranium around the need for 130,000 that are being paid more than a governor who deals with the complex running of a state.  

To paraphrase Dr. Evil, $200k just isn't that much much money anymore. If you're a professional with an advanced degree and you take a job in the DC area knowing it's only ever going to pay, say, $100k, you're an idiot who will be crushed by the high cost of living. By and large, the people making over $200k are highly educated professionals who could easily earn more in the private sector but prefer the stability/quality of life the Feds offer. Those latter benefits appear likely to be going away with the new administration, however. We'll see an exodus into the private sector and retirement over the next four years, but it won't be the useless GS-11s, it'll be the irreplaceable hard workers who make the government work. The useless folks will stick around and be happy that nothing is getting done.

[brabus]

My initial reaction to the idea of paying big salaries was “fuck no!” But I thought about it some more and it does make a lot of sense (especially considering nsplayr’s three criteria). But, I think if that was to be done, it absolutely would have to come with term limits. If no term limits, we wouldn’t see a change - just more people eyeing public office as a means to wealth and power.

As a side desire, I’d also like to see a ban on individual stock investing during time of service. They can invest in standard index funds, IRAs, etc. That would go a long way towards minimizing insider trading that just about all of them do currently.

Edited January 5 by brabus

[ViperMan]

Wow, really surprised to see the lock-step agreement on paying congress people more, as if that was going to reduce corruption. Look at Pelosi. Just one data point. Got rich because she was in power and had access to a corruptible system, not because she was scraping by. Fine, pay Pelosi $650K/yr. Screw it, pay her $2M/yr. It'll always pale in comparison to what she made abusing her power. It simply isn't the panacea we're looking for.

The solution isn't higher pay checks. It's a less powerful government. Axing massive Federal bureaucracy is a good first step.

Forcing tax receipts to match expenditures is a good second one.

Eliminating the ability of the Federal government to raise excess money without selling bonds directly to the American people would be a great final one. We used to have this direct veto power on what our government was doing. Things were much better then.

Edited January 5 by ViperMan

[Lord Ratner]

Elon was not chosen by happenstance. 

 

He eliminated 75-80% of Twitter's employees, nearly overnight, and nothing changed.

We complained for years in the military that there were too many unnecessary tasks. Too many unneeded CBTs. Too many steps on the deployment checklist. 

Elon rocked the tech and broader business world with a concept they had entirely forgotten: some things don't need to happen. Boom, DEI evaporates overnight. An entire industry that created tens of thousands of jobs... Gone.

 

That's exactly what the Republicans want from Elon. But he had to buy Twitter to make that happen. With the federal government it will be far more about making the jobs undesirable, waiting for people to quit, then deleting the position. It won't work as cleanly as it did at Twitter, but it can still work.

[ViperMan]

1 hour ago, Lord Ratner said:

Elon was not chosen by happenstance. 

He eliminated 75-80% of Twitter's employees, nearly overnight, and nothing changed.

We complained for years in the military that there were too many unnecessary tasks. Too many unneeded CBTs. Too many steps on the deployment checklist. 

Elon rocked the tech and broader business world with a concept they had entirely forgotten: some things don't need to happen. Boom, DEI evaporates overnight. An entire industry that created tens of thousands of jobs... Gone.

That's exactly what the Republicans want from Elon. But he had to buy Twitter to make that happen. With the federal government it will be far more about making the jobs undesirable, waiting for people to quit, then deleting the position. It won't work as cleanly as it did at Twitter, but it can still work.

I agree with you, but to be technical, Twitter changed dramatically. It mattered a lot who was in charge, and who was making decisions. Twitter got way fuckin' better. It's a clear example of how much modern organizational structure is literally useless / functions as a boat anchor. Personally I think we can extrapolate that same lesson to just about any organization you look at. Lockheed, military, government, McDonalds. You name it, there's probably a few departments of "workers" not contributing much. Probably the only orgs that don't suffer from that at some level are start-ups.

The real tragedy is that all that wasted labor represents massive economic gains if it were to be rededicated towards actual productive pursuits.

[brabus]

3 hours ago, ViperMan said:

Look at Pelosi

Hypothetical, future Pelosi doesn’t exist when there are term limits and it’s illegal to trade individual stocks. More pay + limits + ban on stock trading may actually attract people who are willing to serve, are paid enough to not let income be a barrier, and the guardrails of limits and stock bans should mostly curb the Pelosi types. Understandably this is a tall order as we’re talking substantial changes to the system that the elite will fight tooth and nail.

Put politics on the list of no fucking way for me and most normal people, but say, “come do this, you’ll be paid 1M/yr and you won’t do it for more than 4-6 years.” That would bring public office off the no fucking way list for a lot of people, especially if USERRA protected - can go right back to your other career once done through electoral defeat or term limit…as the founding fathers intended.

Edited January 5 by brabus