CV-22 Osprey assignment out of pilot training, how does it work?

[SurelySerious]

I don't think it's on pause, I think they just moved production to china..

Too many acquisition programs functioning at the same time, clearly their bid protest program is malfunctioning.

Side note continuing China derail: Dr. Evil must be in charge of acquisitions with their order for One Million Shitheed drones.

[Lawman]

The Army recently sent a bunch of people from OPMD (manning and personnel assignments design) to work with Marine CV units as they figure out what the first V-280 units are gonna look like…. The resulting impressions were not liked by leadership.

I give Valor until FY28 before it’s cancelled. The Army wants Ferrari performance but a Toyota maintenance footprint and they are quickly finding out that isn’t possible.

Defiant was even more of an insane overreach. It’s as big if not bigger than a 47 and you can’t physically access whole portions of it without special cranes and catwalks.


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[M2]

The most accurate documentary on the DoD acquisition system ever made!!

[Clark Griswold]

16 hours ago, Lawman said:

The Army recently sent a bunch of people from OPMD (manning and personnel assignments design) to work with Marine CV units as they figure out what the first V-280 units are gonna look like…. The resulting impressions were not liked by leadership.

I give Valor until FY28 before it’s cancelled. The Army wants Ferrari performance but a Toyota maintenance footprint and they are quickly finding out that isn’t possible.

Defiant was even more of an insane overreach. It’s as big if not bigger than a 47 and you can’t physically access whole portions of it without special cranes and catwalks.

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They even pitched a quad tilt rotor

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Boeing_Quad_TiltRotor

This thing if ever built would have made the Space Shuttle seem reliable and easy to maintain I bet
 

 

Edited yesterday at 01:25 AM by Clark Griswold

[busdriver]

16 hours ago, Lawman said:

Defiant was even more of an insane overreach. It’s as big if not bigger than a 47 and you can’t physically access whole portions of it without special cranes and catwalks.

It requires a B-Stand to access some stuff.  And its a lot taller than a 60.

I'm not slinging hate at you, just observing the inherent perspective difference.  Even with the guy that hangs out on an AF forum.

[Lawman]

It requires a B-Stand to access some stuff.  And its a lot taller than a 60.
I'm not slinging hate at you, just observing the inherent perspective difference.  Even with the guy that hangs out on an AF forum.

That’s why it’s not for us.

The Army needs to stop speaking out of both sides of its mouth on its expectations. We can’t continue to chant “further & faster!” while we simultaneously try to treat our aviation like tractors.

If it can’t live in the dirt for prolonged periods of time we can’t use it. It’s not a we wouldn’t like it, it’s that we are suspect to the ground guys before we ever ask for money and we already spend too much for them. If it can’t live at painted rocks in NTC it can’t be what we buy. Same reason Comanche was a pipe dream. Like I said I think it’s cancelled before it reaches first unit increment, and all the tech we developed for it and for FVL-Heavy (the new one starting now) end up going into 47X and 60Z…. And FY31 you see the 64F make its first flights.


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[busdriver]

5 hours ago, Lawman said:

That’s why it’s not for us.

Understood.  I thought your additional perspective would be useful for the rest of us. 

There's so much in maintaining big AF aircraft, that the giant gap between what is just normal or annoying to an C-130 maintainer turned CV-22 maintainer, might be stopping the rotation of the earth level to an Army 60 crew chief.

[Lawman]

Understood.  I thought your additional perspective would be useful for the rest of us. 
There's so much in maintaining big AF aircraft, that the giant gap between what is just normal or annoying to an C-130 maintainer turned CV-22 maintainer, might be stopping the rotation of the earth level to an Army 60 crew chief.

If say a good way to look at it would be trying to walk into an acquisitions request to say replace the C-130… You tell the contracting companies that you demand double the speed, 1.25x the payload, increased survivability, same stol performance numbers but quieter, etc….

But I’m not going to let you make the aircraft any more complex to keep and feed or give you personnel in addition to what you already have. Need another crew chief or avionics guy or some special stand that isn’t in current inventory or doesn’t go to the field for some reason? Go F yourself.

That is how the Army is tackling FVL. We want revolutionary capability at no additional effort and it’s going about how you would think.


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[contraildash]

We don’t lose missions to the 160th. In my 12 years we all flew specific roles within the missions we participated in together. Ospreys aren’t going to a contested X (no shit), but we were certainly there doing other roles or other unique missions. Frankly we ended up (as a community) doing a few things the 160th couldn’t. The hostage rescue in 2020 is a great example.

The most interesting/rewarding missions I ever did had nothing to do with infil/exfil. The relationships we had with different SOF from around the world were second to none, built over years of working together closely and doing some awesome things. I personally don’t think any other AFSOC airframe had that kind of close relationship with the teams.

The reality is that both organizations serve a purpose and the aircraft within have their niche roles for SOCOM. Overall I thought things worked fairly well. But to say we lost missions to the 160th is naive.

I agree with most everything else said on here. I left AFSOC for other pastures mainly due to my personal feelings about the lack of any direction of the command. While I loved the airframe and the people I flew with, AFSOC was destroying the program (amongst many other programs) with Bold Moves. Combined with the HCE issue and now the fallout of (criminal) actions of the PRGB parts manufacturer…..the community is in a very hard spot.

It was a great place to be until it wasn’t. I consider myself lucky to have been part of it when I did.


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[contraildash]

So why did typing 1 6 0 result in that absolute disaster of text coding????


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[SurelySerious]

So why did typing 1 6 0 result in that absolute disaster of text coding????


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I had that problem on the Baseops app once iOS 18 hit. (ref: iOS App Error
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?share_fid=40012&share_tid=24091&share_pid=543954&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eflyingsquadron%2Ecom%2Fforums%2Findex%2Ephp%3F%2Ftopic%2F24091-iOS-App-Error%2Fpage__view__findpost__p__543954&share_type=t&link_source=app)

But you look like you are using Tapatalk app.

[contraildash]

Yeah apparently any time I type numbers it was doing this. Yes, using tapatalk

160th

guess it works now

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[Lawman]

Yeah apparently any time I type numbers it was doing this. Yes, using tapatalk

160th

guess it works now

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We told the SAP guys to turn the thing off regarding Regiment.

Should work fine now.


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[contraildash]

lol Yup it does, just fixed the post.


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[Biff_T]

12 hours ago, contraildash said:

The reality is that both organizations serve a purpose and the aircraft within have their niche roles for SOCOM

This.  

@RANDOMDUDE13

See above.

[Biff_T]

14 hours ago, contraildash said:

We don’t lose missions to the 160th.

When I brought up the 160th, I didn't think it'd hurt so bad?

I wasn't implying you dudes lost missions to those guys.  I was trying to tell the young dude it's (CVs vs 160th) a different mission.   

Did you end up going rotary or fixed wing after the CV?   

Edit: How many more times can we type 160th?  

Edited 2 hours ago by Biff_T
Afterthought

[Lawman]

When I brought up the 160th, I didn't think it'd hurt so bad?
I wasn't implying you dudes lost missions to those guys.  I was trying to tell the young dude it's (CVs vs 160th) a different mission.   
Did you end up going rotary or fixed wing after the CV?   
Edit: How many more times can we type 160th?  

For the room, no they don’t “lose missions to” ARSOA…


However, there are mission sets and habitual relationships with customers even down to individual flight leads absolutely matter. There are customers out there who simply won’t call anybody but certain people first, and a crap OR/availability rate is not going to help you move that needle. And with that you do get a chance to miss out more often, or get pushed back from the lead to a supporting cast.

Even amongst 160th there is a pecking order and D/1 is at the center of the universe for a lot of the super cool guys partly because a lot of those super swoopy units were not doing nightly raids riding in 47s over in Stan the last 20 years. There home station training some super cool thing. For all the talk of little birds being the most amazing thing or DAPs I more often than not had convention guys supporting me and likewise flew more support as a 64 guy because there was more to go around. In years time there was less opportunity to do it for real in the national mission force because nobody would crack the glass on that item. There were also customers I never saw simply because the way they did business wasn’t really compatible with our MDS. Likewise there were groups that would pass up the 1st Bn guys because they knew they could bring more ass to the fight in the Murder Bus.


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