California Fires

[gearhog]

Airbus released a 400 megapixel photo of the fires. Incredible.

https://space-solutions.airbus.com/newsroom/satellite-image-gallery/pleiades-neo/wildfires-in-los-angeles/

[SocialD]

Awesome!  I just lost an hour looking at all the other photos that thing has taken.  When people ask, can the government really see that from space, I'll refer them to this site.  Then let them know that this is just what a civilian company has access to lol.  

[FourFans]

Thanks for sharing that!  That's wild on a bunch of levels

[ClearedHot]

Some of the aerial firefighting videos are WILD. 

I've seen one video (maybe someone with better Google Fu than me can find it), of what looks like a H-60 dropping water as he rolls off sideways down a hill.  Those folks have giant stones flying in high winds, high terrain and limited visibility.  Amazing to watch.

In other California fire fighting news, Canada sent two CL 415 Super Scoopers (I bet they are fun to fly), but one is out of service because some clown flew a drone in the restricted airspace and they hit it.

[brabus]

Aerial fire fighting is impressive work…I have been more challenged flying in those situations (huge mountains, winds, smoke/shitty vis) than any mil flying I’ve done in the same time period. The guys doing the actual drops are doing some very difficult flying. Multiple times I’ve thought about leaving the airlines for it, but in the end the QOL gap is just too expansive for me personally. But that flying is probably the best civ flying there is once out of the mil, if you’re willing to live that life.

[Biff_T]

I miss flying but I really miss mountain flying in helos.  

The dudes fighting fire from the air have the best job on Earth.   

[arg]

You can feel the winds in this video

https://www.facebook.com/share/r/1AjxJR8GTS/

Someone teach this boomer how to embed

[ClearedHot]

 

[tac airlifter]

5 hours ago, brabus said:

Aerial fire fighting is impressive work…I have been more challenged flying in those situations (huge mountains, winds, smoke/shitty vis) than any mil flying I’ve done in the same time period. The guys doing the actual drops are doing some very difficult flying. Multiple times I’ve thought about leaving the airlines for it, but in the end the QOL gap is just too expansive for me personally. But that flying is probably the best civ flying there is once out of the mil, if you’re willing to live that life.

2 same.  Air Attack mission looks awesome. 

[brabus]

4 minutes ago, tac airlifter said:

2 same.  Air Attack mission looks awesome. 

May start doing that this coming season, hopefully. Need to put that FAC(A) time to good use!

[fire4effect]

Question for the experts. So this is all happening outside traditional fire season. Has that limited the assets/personnel available to respond?

[brabus]

Yep. Wildfire industry is very contract heavy (lots of guys not on contract right now), airplanes in heavy MX, etc. (not an expert, just work on a small contract with the USFS, so have some insight into that world).

Edited Monday at 01:06 AM by brabus

[Prosuper]

Worked 7 fires last year doing mainly mitigation with Hot Shot and Hand crews as a contractor. We fight fires backwards, instead of spending money doing year-round mitigation and controlled burns we do them after the fact after a massive fire. My last go was in the Big Horns near Sheridan Wyoming, what stopped it was 10 inches of snow. Lost 40 pounds last summer and was in the best shape of my life. Staying in shape to pass my pack test, 45-pound pack, 3-mile walk, under 45 minutes. Thought about this year going back to aircraft mx on the fire bombers but love being on the fire line with the boys. Tried being retired but my neighbor talked me into this, money is good and its better than working at some box store. 

[ClearedHot]

News reporting this morning at least one of the fires was started by an arsonist...he is an illegal and had a hand made FLAMETHROWER.  Several local residnets detained him after witnessing him starting a fire. 

ICE has a detainer on him, California is not expected to honor the ICE request.

[fire4effect]

9 hours ago, Prosuper said:

Worked 7 fires last year doing mainly mitigation with Hot Shot and Hand crews as a contractor. We fight fires backwards, instead of spending money doing year-round mitigation and controlled burns we do them after the fact after a massive fire. My last go was in the Big Horns near Sheridan Wyoming, what stopped it was 10 inches of snow. Lost 40 pounds last summer and was in the best shape of my life. Staying in shape to pass my pack test, 45-pound pack, 3-mile walk, under 45 minutes. Thought about this year going back to aircraft mx on the fire bombers but love being on the fire line with the boys. Tried being retired but my neighbor talked me into this, money is good and its better than working at some box store. 

Good way to earn your beer money. 🫡 Maybe just maybe California will decide that judiciously clearing some undergrowth is a good proactive measure instead of worrying about mice having a habitat. Has to be done smart to not create another issue with drainage/runoff. Unfortunate it takes a tragedy of this magnitude to affect change.

[brabus]

19 minutes ago, fire4effect said:

Unfortunate it takes a tragedy of this magnitude to affect change.

Remains to be seen. CA is a massively corrupt dumpster fire - they have the best chance of any state at learning nothing and continuing business as usual. I hope that’s not the case, but I’m not holding my breath.

[Majestik Møøse]

1 hour ago, brabus said:

Remains to be seen. CA is a massively corrupt dumpster fire - they have the best chance of any state at learning nothing and continuing business as usual. I hope that’s not the case, but I’m not holding my breath.

Corruption is everywhere in America (especially the legal kind with campaign contributions) so that’s not unique. Probably the same amount as the South and Northeast but California is just better at hiding it because they’re not overt Good Ole Boys.

But to the people drawn to politics, money isn’t as influential as power. Ideas and policy are a bureaucrat’s personal power, and challenging the ideas that define their lives and legacy is what makes them dig in like nothing else.

In California, the political class is centered on returning the state to what they remember it looking like when they were teenagers. It’s a false vision of a “natural” California that hasn’t existed in 200 years. People have forever changed California from a natural equilibrium into an economic powerhouse and you can never go back.

The Central Valley levies changed grasslands, floodplain marshes, and oak forests into tree nut farms and rice paddies; its 10% of American farm output (cool), but the farmers’ unrestricted wells have drained the aquifers so much that the southern valley has sank dozens of feet.

The mountain forests were able to grow 200 year old trees because they could self-regulate; lightning strike fires would burn the little stuff and the big trees would survive. But now because even the remote forests have a house every few miles the fires need to be put out immediately. And the compounding problem is those houses are served by 1960s power lines and roads that cause the fires in the first place. Roads and utilities that can’t be improved without permits from a dozen entities because brine shrimp, mice, and smelts might be affected.

So there’s no going back to equilibrium naturally, it’ll have to be constantly managed and adapted, which the bureaucracy has not been willing to do. The LA fires pale in comparison to one of the million acre fires that are unfortunately common in the Sierras, but hopefully the day and night visibility for 10M people in LA will cause some movement.

The solution is a combination of reservoir building, utility line improvements (including self-contained systems like solar and power walls, why not), brush management in critical areas (you can’t do it everywhere, too big), steel roofs/siding (the majority of legacy mountain buildings are asphalt shingles, really), and more money for air attack planes and pilots. Some smelts and mice might not make it, but at least less will die in fires.

[Smokin]

WSJ has a good article this morning talking about exactly the infrastructure stuff you mentioned.  A utility company was widening a fire road and fire-proofing the electrical lines.  They got a $2M fine and a cease and desist order in addition to the rehabilitation they were forced to do because they damaged some plants.

[fire4effect]

In the end I think insurance companies will be what drives a lot of change going forward. Want insurance in California? Here's what you're (state and individuals) gonna do. Insurance companies are the pseudo regulatory entities of our entire lives. I was laughing with a buddy the other day about how the FAA doesn't regulate aviation, insurance companies do. Florida building codes were substantially updated in the early 2000s for new construction to better resist hurricanes after a run of destructive storms.

[Smokin]

True, but insurance companies can't control federal, state, and city lands which are grossly mismanaged making them not just fire prone, but a ticking time bomb.  Every time I walk through the forest near my house I marvel that the big one hasn't hit yet.  Hopefully this will be a wake up call for forest management nation-wide.

Also, I read that California prohibited insurance companies from dropping policies in areas that were affected by the fire (obviously only affecting future renewals not current policies), which might decrease their leverage for change.  How anyone can think it is ok for the government to force commerce that was declined for non-discriminatory and purely reasonable business reasons is absurd.  A second order effect of that might be the increase of privatization of fire fighting, which would be a rather funny thing to happen in CA.  The rich people and their insurance policies already do it so it might start cropping up in the upper middle class.  Net result would be the average families continue to get screwed even worse, which is par for the course in liberal states.

[Prosuper]

22 hours ago, Smokin said:

True, but insurance companies can't control federal, state, and city lands which are grossly mismanaged making them not just fire prone, but a ticking time bomb.  Every time I walk through the forest near my house I marvel that the big one hasn't hit yet.  Hopefully this will be a wake up call for forest management nation-wide.

Also, I read that California prohibited insurance companies from dropping policies in areas that were affected by the fire (obviously only affecting future renewals not current policies), which might decrease their leverage for change.  How anyone can think it is ok for the government to force commerce that was declined for non-discriminatory and purely reasonable business reasons is absurd.  A second order effect of that might be the increase of privatization of fire fighting, which would be a rather funny thing to happen in CA.  The rich people and their insurance policies already do it so it might start cropping up in the upper middle class.  Net result would be the average families continue to get screwed even worse, which is par for the course in liberal states.

Each HOA should have one, but of course they wont work cheap because they have to live in the metro area.

[Majestik Møøse]

23 hours ago, Smokin said:

True, but insurance companies can't control federal, state, and city lands which are grossly mismanaged making them not just fire prone, but a ticking time bomb.  Every time I walk through the forest near my house I marvel that the big one hasn't hit yet.  Hopefully this will be a wake up call for forest management nation-wide.

Also, I read that California prohibited insurance companies from dropping policies in areas that were affected by the fire (obviously only affecting future renewals not current policies), which might decrease their leverage for change.  How anyone can think it is ok for the government to force commerce that was declined for non-discriminatory and purely reasonable business reasons is absurd.  A second order effect of that might be the increase of privatization of fire fighting, which would be a rather funny thing to happen in CA.  The rich people and their insurance policies already do it so it might start cropping up in the upper middle class.  Net result would be the average families continue to get screwed even worse, which is par for the course in liberal states.

The answer is Woody Harrelson’s plan from Doc Hollywood: “Earthquake insurance is something I'm keen to take a whack at…collect premiums for a gazillion years, and if the big one ever does hit, declare bankruptcy and retire.”

So, yeah, basically that. I had Merced Insurance because that was the only company that would insure my house in a wildfire area. After Paradise burned down in 2018, I got a letter from Merced that basically said, “yeah, so, we’re done being solvent”. Apparently California picked up the tab to the tune of $500k max payout per claim. Same old story.

https://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-merced-insurance-customers-20181204-story.html

The best part is that Merced was 95% owned by United Heritage Financial Group, with the very same guys still working there. Not sure how that’s a thing, but it is.

https://www.unitedheritage.com/get-news?fileName=Todd_Gill_named_as_President_of_United_Heritage_Insurance_FINAL.pdf

[arg]

 

[Clayton Bigsby]

On 1/12/2025 at 1:54 PM, fire4effect said:

Question for the experts. So this is all happening outside traditional fire season. Has that limited the assets/personnel available to respond?

Traditional fire season for everyone else.  Mediterranean climate here, just like Chile, Australia, Spain, France, Italy, and Greece…guess what they all have in common?  Big wildfire threats, outside the traditional summer forest fire spectrum.  Fall and early winter is when we get the Santa Anas here, which is why Quebec 1&2 (CL-415 super scoopers) were here in the first place, they’re leased on a retainer and fly out of VNY.  But on those heavy offshore wind days, all it takes is a spark and people are losing homes. 
 

I’ll read Majestik’s posts some more because those seem insightful, but I’ll just say the usual tribal politics being exhibited here are largely missing the point and aren’t helpful.  Rake America Great Again is a simpleton take for SoCal.  Maybe up north for the redwood forests…

14 helitankers working out of my airport, we’re doing our part. 

Edited yesterday at 06:35 AM by Clayton Bigsby

[ClearedHot]

Very disturbing report about events leading up to the fire and the actions of leadership, I am shocked they still have their jobs.  If the reports are correct (and leadership is responding trying to defend their actions so it appears to be true), the experts warned them and urged them to activate standby and reserve capabilities.  The main fire department had a total of 40 trucks available if they kept a shift over and activated their contingency plan.  The plan also called for them to pre-position trucks in the pacific-palasades neighborhoods, the fire chief declined to call up the additional resources and they had just FIVE trucks to deal with the initial outbreak.  Some of those neighborhoods did not get engine support for 48 hours.

No way of telling how that would have impacted the outcome, but talk about an epic leadership failure.