Mid-Air Collision in DC

[BashiChuni]

2 hours ago, Biff_T said:

I knew a few pilots who did WH things.  They were solid pilots.   

I agree with this.  

as young captains with below average flight time?

[gearhog]

1 hour ago, uhhello said:

Why is there no talk about the instructor/evaluator on board?  

According to this article, It appears there was a Capt, a CWO, and a SSgt on board.

Honest question: Is it common in the Army for a Chief Warrant Officer to be the Instructor/Evaluator and have the A-code with a Captain in the seat?

 

[Lawman]

According to this article, It appears there was a Capt, a CWO, and a SSgt on board.
Honest question: Is it common in the Army for a Chief Warrant Officer to be the Instructor/Evaluator and have the A-code with a Captain in the seat?
 

Warrants classify into 4 specific career tracks, one of them being Instructor/Evaluator.

IP is not an upgrade in the Army, it is a specific career progression.

We have made RLO(O series) instructors on occasion, but it is usually tied to specific detail such as the exchange billet with the UK.

It is normal, she would log PI even though she has a PIC rating, because she is being evaluated. Same is true of an IP evaluating the commander. The only time you get weird logging of a kind of dual PC condition is an IP conducting a check ride from the control station and a Stands pilot (IP upgrade) conducting a simultaneous evaluation from the bench or jump seat in a 60/47.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Biff_T]

1 hour ago, BashiChuni said:

as young captains with below average flight time?

First assignment captains with average time.    The three that I'm thinking of specifically were all good pilots.  It may be rare, but we had a few shiny pennies that didn't suck as pilots.   They were good people too.  I knew a few execs in my 11H career who were solid pilots as well. 

The crappiest pilot I knew was a 60 dude who crossed over to the Huey.  He happened to be the CC.   

[ClearedHot]

 

[Clayton Bigsby]

18 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

I don't know how the tower radar derives altitude?  Raw data, does ADSB feed into it? 

Mode C information, ADSB is a possibility as well but the primary source is Mode C readout. 

[Vetter]

18 hours ago, uhhello said:

If it was my daughter I'd do the exact same thing.  Imagine losing your daughter/son and stepping into the social media world to see every possible evil conspiratorial thing being said about your child.  Whatever can be done to lessen the pain and stress would be done if I were them.  

Regardless of how many hours she could have had, it's not going to stop the fucktards from dragging him/her down.  I rarely flew on a sortie that had a crew full of 1,000+ hour folks.  There is always going to be a low hour guy on board getting training.  Why is there no talk about the instructor/evaluator on board?  

There is plenty of talk about the other guy.  If he was the instructor/evaluator, he’s responsible.  Period.  If he wasn’t the instructor/evaluator, he still has some responsibility because he is part of the crew.

67 people were killed.  Just because you are heartbroken because your child was killed doesn’t not give you the right to stifle information flow.  Withholding the identity just raises more questions.  There are lots of valid questions being asked. 

 

[uhhello]

13 minutes ago, Vetter said:

There is plenty of talk about the other guy.  If he was the instructor/evaluator, he’s responsible.  Period.  If he wasn’t the instructor/evaluator, he still has some responsibility because he is part of the crew.

67 people were killed.  Just because you are heartbroken because your child was killed doesn’t not give you the right to stifle information flow.  Withholding the identity just raises more questions.  There are lots of valid questions being asked. 

 

They didn't stifle information flow.  Withholding identity at that moment in time was in line with existing regulations.  

[Vetter]

Something just really rubs me the wrong way about the scrubbing of the social media posts.  If I was involved in an accident, you can be damn sure that the investigators will scour my personal life leading up to that accident.  All text messages, phone calls, etc would be looked at.  If I scrubbed them after it happened, that would raise the eyebrows of the investigators…possibly to point of obstructing an investigation, destruction of evidence, and obstruction of justice.  Maybe there was nothing there.  Maybe the investigators have full access.  But it doesn’t look right to me.

[uhhello]

29 minutes ago, Vetter said:

Something just really rubs me the wrong way about the scrubbing of the social media posts.  If I was involved in an accident, you can be damn sure that the investigators will scour my personal life leading up to that accident.  All text messages, phone calls, etc would be looked at.  If I scrubbed them after it happened, that would raise the eyebrows of the investigators…possibly to point of obstructing an investigation, destruction of evidence, and obstruction of justice.  Maybe there was nothing there.  Maybe the investigators have full access.  But it doesn’t look right to me.

All that stuff is still available.  Just because it's not publically available doesn't mean its gone.  

[nsplayr]

37 minutes ago, Vetter said:

If I was involved in an accident, you can be damn sure that the investigators will scour my personal life leading up to that accident.  All text messages, phone calls, etc would be looked at.

So hypothetically, you get involved in a Class A but are not killed, but it sure looks like you might be at fault. You plan on just handing over your phone, laptop, passcode, gmail password, BO.net username and password, etc. to the investigating officials? The FAA? The NTSB? The news media? You're gonna just leave your public facebook or linkedin profiles out there so random internet people can blow up your notifications? You're gonna just leave your semi-anon accounts like BO, reddit, Twitter, etc. up even if those accounts are doxed?

God forbid you were killed, you would like your wife/parents/next of kin to do the same?

And regardless, it's unlikely that's even what's happened in the DCA crash. I'm guessing the deceased pilot's family deleted her social media so random dickhead internet sleuths didn't go poking into her personal life after it tragically ended.

If there's any evidence of actual obstruction of the real, no-shit NTSB investigation, withholding relevant, possibly causal details, for sure let's quash that and get the truth data out there so we can prevent accidents in the future. But protecting the privacy of your deceased family members is not evidence of some conspiracy or funny business.

I look forward to reading the safety brief on this once all the conclusions are reached rather than putting any stock in random talking heads or youtube aviation bros' speculation. I have opinions on what I think happened based on what we've all seen, but I don't actually know shit and therefore that opinion isn't particularly valuable.

I'll go on record saying if I die, regardless of the circumstances, I'd love for my wife to go ahead and delete everything not required for her to continue our household operations and then throw my phone and laptop in the ocean. TBH we'd all be better off probably sending our devices down to Davy Jones ASAP rather than continuing to do what we're doing right here and now...

Edited 22 hours ago by nsplayr

[Vetter]

1 minute ago, nsplayr said:

So hypothetically, you get involved in a Class A but are not killed. You plan on just handing over your phone, laptop, passcode, gmail password, BO.net username and password, etc. to the investigating officials? The FAA? The NTSB?

God forbid you were killed, you would like your wife/parents/next of kin to do the same?

And regardless, it's unlikely that's even what's happened in the DCA crash. I'm guessing the pilot's family deleted her social media so random dickhead internet sleuths didn't go poking into her personal life after it tragically ended.

If there's any evidence of actual obstruction of the real, no-shit NTSB investigation, for sure let's quash that and get the truth data out there so we can prevent accidents in the future, but protecting the privacy of your deceased family members is not evidence of some conspiracy or funny business.

I look forward to reading the safety brief on this once all the conclusions are reached rather than putting any stock in random talking heads or youtube aviation bros' speculation. I have opinions on what I think happened based on what we've all seen, but I don't actually know shit and therefore that opinion isn't particularly valuable.

I'll go on record saying if I die, regardless of the circumstances, I'd love for my wife to go ahead and delete everything not required for her to continue our household operations and then throw my phone and laptop in the ocean. TBH we'd all be better off probably sending our devices down to Davy Jones ASAP rather than continuing to do what we're doing right here and now...

You may want to research a little more about what happens after a mishap with the FAA, NTSB, and your company.  All that shit you mentioned will be subpoenaed and if you or anyone else destroys it, expect action from the FAA and probably the DOJ.  You expectation of privacy after an accident is pretty minimal.

[GrndPndr]

18 minutes ago, nsplayr said:

So hypothetically, you get involved in a Class A but are not killed, but it sure looks like you might be at fault. You plan on just handing over your phone, laptop, passcode, gmail password, BO.net username and password, etc. to the investigating officials? The FAA? The NTSB? The news media? You're gonna just leave your public facebook or linkedin profiles out there so random internet people can blow up your notifications? You're gonna just leave your semi-anon accounts like BO, reddit, Twitter, etc. up even if those accounts are doxed?

God forbid you were killed, you would like your wife/parents/next of kin to do the same?

And regardless, it's unlikely that's even what's happened in the DCA crash. I'm guessing the deceased pilot's family deleted her social media so random dickhead internet sleuths didn't go poking into her personal life after it tragically ended.

If there's any evidence of actual obstruction of the real, no-shit NTSB investigation, withholding relevant, possibly causal details, for sure let's quash that and get the truth data out there so we can prevent accidents in the future. But protecting the privacy of your deceased family members is not evidence of some conspiracy or funny business.

I look forward to reading the safety brief on this once all the conclusions are reached rather than putting any stock in random talking heads or youtube aviation bros' speculation. I have opinions on what I think happened based on what we've all seen, but I don't actually know shit and therefore that opinion isn't particularly valuable.

I'll go on record saying if I die, regardless of the circumstances, I'd love for my wife to go ahead and delete everything not required for her to continue our household operations and then throw my phone and laptop in the ocean. TBH we'd all be better off probably sending our devices down to Davy Jones ASAP rather than continuing to do what we're doing right here and now...

I thought I had read where she was not recovered until 24 hours after the other crew was recovered (thus the delay)?

[uhhello]

22 minutes ago, GrndPndr said:

I thought I had read where she was not recovered until 24 hours after the other crew was recovered (thus the delay)?

From what i've read.  correct

[SocialD]

Just delete my browser history!  

[TreeA10]

3 minutes ago, SocialD said:

Just delete my browser history!  

Are the rumors true about the most extensive collection of Asian midget porn known to man?

[SurelySerious]

Are the rumors true about the most extensive collection of Asian midget porn known to man?

His biggest debate when getting his will written was whether to involve the Guinness Book of World Records or Ripley’s Believe It or Not.

[kaputt]

On 1/30/2025 at 2:23 PM, SocialD said:

 

 

The Pro age 67 FB group had a post this morning with the following quote.

 

This accident on short final at DCA has inexperience written all over it.  Please get out there and push for an EXECUTIVE ORDER to RAISE THE AGE IMMEDIATELY.  We, the airline industry, are directly responsible for these deaths.

 

There is no depth too low for which these guys will stoop, all in the name of getting theirs.  Sadly he's one of us at DAL but is scheduled to retire in March.  It can't get here soon enough.  WTF is wrong with some people.  

I’d love to see age 67 get approved with the caveat that they all have to go be regional FOs for those last two years. 
 

If they really think it’s an experience problem, what better way to help to go sling gear for a 29 year old CRJ captain! 

[Clark Griswold]

I’d love to see age 67 get approved with the caveat that they all have to go be regional FOs for those last two years. 
 
If they really think it’s an experience problem, what better way to help to go sling gear for a 29 year old CRJ captain! 

They really all want to be on LTD, that’s the real deal


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[brabus]

Yep, I’d say the vast majority of the loud pro-67 people are very disingenuous about their motives. 

[Smokin]

The only CAs I've considered putting on my no fly list have all been 64.  Coincidence?

[SurelySerious]

The only CAs I've considered putting on my no fly list have all been 64.  Coincidence?

Hah, those bores I can put up with. My only two are no-personal-skill clowns swept in with the 2021-2023 hiring boom. I wonder who the company actually turned away.

[Lord Ratner]

21 hours ago, Vetter said:

Something just really rubs me the wrong way about the scrubbing of the social media posts.  If I was involved in an accident, you can be damn sure that the investigators will scour my personal life leading up to that accident.  All text messages, phone calls, etc would be looked at.  If I scrubbed them after it happened, that would raise the eyebrows of the investigators…possibly to point of obstructing an investigation, destruction of evidence, and obstruction of justice.  Maybe there was nothing there.  Maybe the investigators have full access.  But it doesn’t look right to me.

Investigators will have access to everything that was deleted. This is the internet, you can't make it go away in a day. 

 

But it does keep people like you and me from seeing it. And I am 100% okay with that. The chattering class can wait for the report. I have no problem with us having this discussion in this forum, but we do not have an inherent right to unlimited information just because we want to know earlier.

[Lord Ratner]

16 hours ago, Clark Griswold said:

They really all want to be on LTD, that’s the real deal


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They may end up on LTD, but this is not the case. I don't know if you're an airline guy or not, but the number of guys I hear raging against age 65 because it is a direct attack on their perception of their own status and money making ability.

 

I think airline Management is suspiciously quiet on age 65 because they know, especially with the new contracts and generous LTD plans, that they are going to pay a fortune to 65, 66, and 67-year-olds who did not realize how weak their bodies had become. It'll be the widebody captains who don't have a real job anyways who stick around until they look like the crypt keeper 🤣😂

[BashiChuni]

one thing that i hope comes from this tragedy is upgraded ATC systems. new radars, new radios, new automation. that seems like a very practical step.

a warp speed type event for NextGen.