Tulsi didn't do her CBTs

[Premo]

https://youtu.be/YOrgYaa9EHw?feature=shared&t=1112
 

"I haven't read that policy."
 

In 2015, while also serving in Congress, Gabbard became a major with the Hawaii Army National Guard. In 2020, she transferred to the U.S. Army Reserve and was promoted to the rank of lieutenant colonel in 2021.

 

Hahahahahahahahahahahah!!!

[Lord Ratner]

I guess we'll have to endure the trickle of "new" members who never had anything to say about military aviation on the military aviation forum suddenly finding their voice now that their political world is crumbling around them. 

That and the fake accounts doing a weak job of mimicking the General Chang troll-job from long ago. 

I say just ban them.

 

Anyways, obviously the .gov needs to pull it's head out of the sand and develop a SIPR app for high ranking members. It's pretty easy for a captain or low level staffer to go home and simply wait until they are back at work to play around with classified information, but once you hit a certain level there is no "off-duty time." Rather than pretend like everything is going to be discussed in a secure environment, just make a signal app clone for the government and you won't have to worry about some journalist being added to the chat. Keep it at Secret and below, ideally, but either way stop pretending like politicians are going to follow rules set up for a world before wireless.

 

 

[DirkDiggler]

1 hour ago, Lord Ratner said:

Anyways, obviously the .gov needs to pull it's head out of the sand and develop a SIPR app for high ranking members. It's pretty easy for a captain or low level staffer to go home and simply wait until they are back at work to play around with classified information, but once you hit a certain level there is no "off-duty time." Rather than pretend like everything is going to be discussed in a secure environment, just make a signal app clone for the government and you won't have to worry about some journalist being added to the chat. Keep it at Secret and below, ideally, but either way stop pretending like politicians are going to follow rules set up for a world before wireless.

 

 

There are currently multiple options for individuals with the need/requirement to access SIPR outside of their normal work spaces; they've been available for years.  There's also an app /program that's available for that can be installed on your personal phone that's cleared for CUI level info. 

[Lord Ratner]

12 minutes ago, DirkDiggler said:

There are currently multiple options for individuals with the need/requirement to access SIPR outside of their normal work spaces; they've been available for years.  There's also an app /program that's available for that can be installed on your personal phone that's cleared for CUI level info. 

Does it work as well as signal? That's a real question, I have no idea and never used any of that stuff when I was in. 

 

If it does, then smack them on the dick and start enforcing this shit. 

 

Unfortunately we're at the point where it is culturally ingrained to use unmonitored communication networks and treat classified like a nothing burger. That's going to be very difficult to root out, especially when each team is only interested in punishing the other side.

[DirkDiggler]

23 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

Does it work as well as signal? That's a real question, I have no idea and never used any of that stuff when I was in. 

 

If it does, then smack them on the dick and start enforcing this shit. 

 

Unfortunately we're at the point where it is culturally ingrained to use unmonitored communication networks and treat classified like a nothing burger. That's going to be very difficult to root out, especially when each team is only interested in punishing the other side.

WICKR (the CUI app) is more cumbersome than Signal/Whatsapp but not overwhelmingly so; it’s better than it was a couple years ago.  If a tech retarded guy like me can make it work anyone can.

The SIPR options aren’t hard.  I had access to them as a peon O-5 staffer (on a little j staff).  I’m sure at the NCA level they’ve got some pretty gucci shit.  It’s just in this case, for whatever reason, people chose not to use them.

  I don’t disagree with your point about people becoming complacent when handling classified.  Unfortunately it seems the higher in rank/position some people get they feel the rules don’t apply to them.  Anecdote: I once had a boss who we were fairly certain tunneled into an SVTC in the middle of an international airport with a jacket thrown over his head and the laptop.

[Smokin]

49 minutes ago, Lord Ratner said:

Unfortunately we're at the point where it is culturally ingrained to use unmonitored communication networks and treat classified like a nothing burger. That's going to be very difficult to root out, especially when each team is only interested in punishing the other side.

Much of this is self-induced by absurd over-classification.  I did a TSP and everyone was told the location was classified.  Finance accidentally typed the location into our travel orders and that resulted in their network being isolated for a day while comm went through and did whatever they do to fix that.  Obviously finance was even less useful than normal during that time.  We were told that we could tell our wives where we were going once we arrived in country.  Meanwhile, the local national travel agents on base with zero clearance for anything booked ADVON on commercial flights and emailed us our tickets to the 'classified' location.  Then we arrived to a reception of a dozen host country reporters to cover our arrival who had been told a month prior.  We had to jump through all sorts of hoops pretending the location was a secret, but everyone knew where we were going and there was no real reason for it to be secret in the first place.  Things like this make people desensitized to classified.

[Lawman]

Much of this is self-induced by absurd over-classification.  I did a TSP and everyone was told the location was classified.  Finance accidentally typed the location into our travel orders and that resulted in their network being isolated for a day while comm went through and did whatever they do to fix that.  Obviously finance was even less useful than normal during that time.  We were told that we could tell our wives where we were going once we arrived in country.  Meanwhile, the local national travel agents on base with zero clearance for anything booked ADVON on commercial flights and emailed us our tickets to the 'classified' location.  Then we arrived to a reception of a dozen host country reporters to cover our arrival who had been told a month prior.  We had to jump through all sorts of hoops pretending the location was a secret, but everyone knew where we were going and there was no real reason for it to be secret in the first place.  Things like this make people desensitized to classified.

“Don’t talk about the deployment on social media… “

Also

“Your families can find the times and specifics for the redeployment on the unit FB page.”


I think my favorite was the PAO taking pictures of the Camp Alpha Christmas party with all the secret stuff on the walls. As for Tulsi… she was an MP. That’s the bar she cleared. How much classified material handling do you think she honestly did, I doubt she ever even had a token.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[DirkDiggler]

1 hour ago, Smokin said:

Much of this is self-induced by absurd over-classification.  I did a TSP and everyone was told the location was classified.  Finance accidentally typed the location into our travel orders and that resulted in their network being isolated for a day while comm went through and did whatever they do to fix that.  Obviously finance was even less useful than normal during that time.  We were told that we could tell our wives where we were going once we arrived in country.  Meanwhile, the local national travel agents on base with zero clearance for anything booked ADVON on commercial flights and emailed us our tickets to the 'classified' location.  Then we arrived to a reception of a dozen host country reporters to cover our arrival who had been told a month prior.  We had to jump through all sorts of hoops pretending the location was a secret, but everyone knew where we were going and there was no real reason for it to be secret in the first place.  Things like this make people desensitized to classified.

Agreed.  It desensitizes people to things that are actually important.

  About 7ish years ago SOCOM was on a big push to reduce the over-classification of things, the justification being that it was making it difficult to share and coordinate with our joint partners.  The SOCOM DJ3 at the time was an Australian exchange officer; it was fairly ridiculous at times when he would have to leave meetings or SVTCs for things that were supposedly NOFORN.  It's easy for any staff guy to slap NOFORN or no caveats on something as opposed to actually doing the work to classify something at the proper level.

[Lord Ratner]

This is one of the reasons why I balk at the idea of firing anybody who breaks the classification rules at the highest levels. Yeah, they would take a hammer to an E-3 or an O-4 who did this. But maybe the solution to that isn't to take a hammer to Hillary Clinton or Pete hegseth, maybe the solution is to stop hammering the junior violators in the idiotic hope that it will set the example for everyone else. The example always comes from the top. If we were in a no-shit war with serious consequences, I guarantee you people (not just Democrats) would be after Hegseth's head. We had a great example of this during the unrelated incident of covid. You can't make something more of a threat than it is. The way people respond to it will be a better gauge of how serious the matter is. People knew covid wasn't slaughtering millions of people in the street, and so they acted like a really bad cold was going around. The old and the fat were much more concerned about wearing a mask than the young and the healthy, because those groups experienced a different hazard level. And that's exactly what was happening. 

 

As long as the houthis or the Iranians didn't find out about these plans right before they happened, it really wasn't a very big deal to keep it a secret. And even if they had, it would have just fucked up a military operation with a near zero threat of loss to American Life. 

 

If this was operation overlord or the Manhattan project, you would see a level of seriousness that we are not going to see under the current conditions.

 

 

[brabus]

Secret is basically the new Unclass, or at least that’s the prevailing attitude we’ve developed due to decades of lazily classifying shit higher than necessary. Hell, the available Signal “bombshell” screenshots are CUI at best, but you’d think the F-47 just got fully leaked to Beijing based on the reactions (that’s not a defense of said actions, just tempering the actual vs. perceived level of fuckup). 
 

S//NF cellphones are easy to get, the CUI app is mentioned above - people/orgs just need to normalize using those. That’d go a long ways to minimize spillage. Also, don’t be an asshat always applies. 

[chase]

2 hours ago, brabus said:

Secret is basically the new Unclass, or at least that’s the prevailing attitude we’ve developed due to decades of lazily classifying shit higher than necessary. Hell, the available Signal “bombshell” screenshots are CUI at best, but you’d think the F-47 just got fully leaked to Beijing based on the reactions (that’s not a defense of said actions, just tempering the actual vs. perceived level of up). 
 

S//NF cellphones are easy to get, the CUI app is mentioned above - people/orgs just need to normalize using those. That’d go a long ways to minimize spillage. Also, don’t be an asshat always applies. 

Target, Target location and TOT is now CUI, check.

[brabus]

@chase Never saw specific targets and their locations, units, callsigns, comm plan, routing, AR track locations, CAP locations, etc. I will retract my statement if those were indeed released (absolutely could have missed it). And as previously stated, this is not support of what was put in signal, but merely caging reality vs. hyperbole. 

[Banzai]

You can retract your statement anyways. Bad take and you know it. Especially bad coming from an alleged combat aviator; feel sad to what you’re doing to your credibility.

It was revealed that F-18s, tomahawks, and MQ-9s were tasked to strike the houthis “top missile guy” at an exact time. The Houthis have SA-6s and SA-3s and have shot down over a dozen of our aircraft. There is clearly risk.

Recommend to rebuild you don’t go too deep down the talk radio path you’re flirting with and get back to studying. I’d start with what the classification of these things are:

- Movement of ammunition, aircraft, personnel, units, or comm equipment.

- Date and time mission/operations begin

- Time lines/schedules

There are some FOIAd SCGs. DYOR.

[chase]

1 hour ago, brabus said:

@chase Never saw specific targets and their locations, units, callsigns, comm plan, routing, AR track locations, CAP locations, etc. I will retract my statement if those were indeed released (absolutely could have missed it). And as previously stated, this is not support of what was put in signal, but merely caging reality vs. hyperbole. 

Disregard on target location, my bad i didn't check the message timeline but it was obvious that its about the Houthis.

But dude, seriously...stop pretending this is somehow fine. I’m terrified about what else has been leaked to who-knows-who due to gross incompetence by people who REALLY should’ve known better (SECDEF, D/CIA).

 

don’t be an asshat...

[Lord Ratner]

6 hours ago, Banzai said:

feel sad to what you’re doing to your credibility.

Trust me, it's not his credibility that's in question.

[brabus]

@Banzai Nah, my credibility is just fine, but copy emotional, personal attack. I’ve seen PA commit far worse OPSEC mistakes than what was put on Signal by SecDef. Again, not a defense of him being a bonehead, but you are simply being a politically charged hack trying to make it substantially more than what it is (a fuck up, but not a “straight to jail/burn him at the stake!” fuck up). The problem with the CUI data is aggregate collection that can lead to compiled secret, and that’s the real concern with fuckery like the Signal incident. But you probably didn’t need that info because you’re smarter than the rest of us on how classified works…

15 hours ago, chase said:

But dude, seriously...stop pretending this is somehow fine. I’m terrified about what else has been leaked to who-knows-who due to gross incompetence by people who REALLY should’ve known better (SECDEF, D/CIA).

 

Have said multiple times it’s not fine (but you ignored that so you can make me a boogey man in your mind). Valid concern about what else could get out due to incompetence - but reality is you can just go ahead and discharge half the combat pilots in the AF, 69% of SOCOM, etc. right now if this level of reaction is “warranted” for this level of fuck up. The right thing to do is action that is commensurate with the fuck up instead of this “straight to jail!” attitude for everything (that people you don’t like do).

Edited 4 hours ago by brabus

[chase]

3 hours ago, brabus said:

Have said multiple times it’s not fine (but you ignored that so you can make me a boogey man in your mind). Valid concern about what else could get out due to incompetence - but reality is you can just go ahead and discharge half the combat pilots in the AF, 69% of SOCOM, etc. right now if this level of reaction is “warranted” for this level of up. The right thing to do is action that is commensurate with the up instead of this “straight to jail!” attitude for everything (that people you don’t like do).

No worries...you’re not my boogeyman. Maybe my reading and comprehension suck. (I still disagree that Target and TOT are CUI, though.)
Just to clarify, all I wanted was an adult response from them:
“Okay, we ed up. We’ll handle it better in the future. Pete gets 10 uninterrupted hours of Cyber Awareness Training. Moving on.”
I’m just… disappointed and wanted to see if others with the same background are as unimpressed as I am.

 

At least the public gets to see how army leadership operates in reality: “We ruin everything good and fun.” 

 

Edited 1 hour ago by chase

[brabus]

37 minutes ago, chase said:

Just to clarify, all I wanted was an adult response from them:
“Okay, we ed up. We’ll handle it better in the future. Pete gets 10 uninterrupted hours of Cyber Awareness Training. Moving on.”
I’m just… disappointed and wanted to see if others with the same background are as unimpressed as I am.

Absolutely 100% agree. It should not be difficult to admit a mistake, learn from it, and perform better in the future.