Toro Posted January 22, 2006 Posted January 22, 2006 The SQ/CC pulled aside the mayor last week and told him to pass along the WG/CC imposed ROE on songs, stories, and things that would be uttered in the squadron bar. We are to no longer sing songs that have 'girlie bits'. NSTFS - we can no longer preface our songs with "How does every good fighter pilot song start?" I can no longer sing to the world that I love my wife, yes I do, yes I do. Any stories that are told must conform to the same standards. I should hope that this frightening trend does not extend past Seymour Johnson. Please, young SNAPs, continue to sing the beautiful songs of dead whores by the roadside. Hold on to this tradition or soon we will all be uptight UAV pilots telling knock-knock jokes at the water cooler. It is a sad day in the Air Force - chalk one up for the shoe clerks and everything that is wrong with the military. RIP beloved Fighter Pilot Songbook. Alas, I knew you well.
Hacker Posted January 22, 2006 Posted January 22, 2006 Been going that direction for a long time, I'm afraid to say. Gonna keep moving that way, unfortunately, as we move toward an all-SNAP and all-UAV fleet. F*ck 'em all. That word hasn't been specifically laid down at Moody, though. Sounds like you have an overly PC Wing King....(and Grace saluted smartly to that guidance?!)
Guest Hoser Posted January 22, 2006 Posted January 22, 2006 I can't even begin to describe hwo friggin retarded this is. When the sh!t hits the fan, our job is to turn people into hair, teeth and eyeballs. If you don't want to hear me sing about f@cking dead whores, or loving Toro's wife, then get the f#ck out of my bar and stop drinking my f$cking beer. It's the PC loving douche pumps that caused us to say things like 'container' and 'cranium' in the first place. How about this: why doesn't someone grow a pair of brass balls and tell the crybabies to shut the f%ck up. In the words of Denis Leary, "Life sucks, get a helmet". And in case this post as offended anyone, f^ck you, you f&ckin f*ck, and while you are at it, why don't you eat sh!t and die. I know what we should do, make these little b(tches the first group to force shape right out on their arse. Hoser [ 22. January 2006, 07:49: Message edited by: Hoser ]
Flare Posted January 22, 2006 Posted January 22, 2006 To quote a song off the new Dos Gringos album, "Now this political correctness must come to an end We're in the business of killin, who give a f^ck if we offend Cause I can mow 'em down by the thousands But I can't say a dirty word Well that's the dumbest f^cking thing that I have ever heard" Here's to the good old times that seem to be disappearing before I can even make it to the CAF.
B-O-double-Z Posted January 22, 2006 Posted January 22, 2006 The O'Clubs have been dumbed down big time over the past 20 years. But, I'm shocked to see you have to restrict the festivities in your own squadron's bar. Like you said, if you don't like the songs, get the f#ck out of the squadron. Who's the Wing CC? Do you have any chicks in your squadron? Does your squadron CC have a sack or not? Sometimes this kind of sh!t blows over quickly. As sad as it is, your squadron CC at least has to go through the motions. The real test will be if he enforces the new rules with gusto or not. If it were me, and I was put in that situation by the Wing CC, I'd probably stop coming to the bar and let the boys play.
Guest Hoser Posted January 22, 2006 Posted January 22, 2006 Originally posted by B-O-double-Z: Who's the Wing CC? Do you have any chicks in your squadron? Does your squadron CC have a sack or not? O-6. Yes, both IP and Student A very large one. It normally arrives at the squadron 5 min before he does. The SQ/CC is a great dude and an outstanding fighter pilot. Hoser
Hacker Posted January 22, 2006 Posted January 22, 2006 Originally posted by B-O-double-Z: Do you have any chicks in your squadron? I've been in two fighter squadrons so far with females flying in them, and I've yet to see one that was pissed off or offended by the standard bullsh*t that happens and is said in a fighter squadron. On the contrary, most of them have had language further in the gutter than many of the dudes in the squadron. This may have been a limfac in a fighter squadron a decade ago, but it's a non-issue from my standpoint today. Squadron/Group/Wing Commanders who are overly worried about getting fired (and feel the need to run an overly-PC ship as a result) are a significantly bigger threat to the fighter pilot culture than women pilots are.
Guest cbire880 Posted January 22, 2006 Posted January 22, 2006 How long before you can't correct someone who f'd up in a debrief because you might offend them? (That seems to be how we do business in the civilian world.) Stuff like this makes me think twice about signing up for the 10+ year ride.
M2 Posted January 22, 2006 Posted January 22, 2006 Gotta post it... Drew Carey on Tailhook How many militant feminists does it take to change a light bulb? Two. One to change the bulb, and one to kiss my ass. That's right. I said kiss my ass. 'Cause I've had it. I'm tired of being pushed around. Tired of being grouped in with all the dead-beat dads and rapists and lecherous bosses just because I'm a man. All men aren't "potential rapists." I'm not a potential rapist. But, I am a potential murderer if all of you don't shut up and get out of my face already. You've ruined it for everybody. Everybody, do you hear me? Men, women, everybody. Because of you and everyone else in this society that needs to play political victim and go to court instead of just dealing with it themselves, no one can have any kind of fun anymore. Men and women can't flirt, or hug, or look at anyone sideways because of you and your lawyers. Are you happy? You've used a stink bomb to kill a few ants. And while I'm at it. Naval Aviators, who are willing to die so that we can have low prices at the gas pump, should be able to throw the wildest parties they can manage without one uptight biddy coming in and stopping it. There were scads of women at that Tailhook party who were having the time of their lives, voluntarily being just as debauched as any of the men were. Everyone who flew a plane, or even knew someone who flew a plane, knew how wild those parties were and what went on. What did she expect? A prayer service? And why didn't she just throw some punches of her own when these couple of guys groped her? Why didn't she give them what they had coming and just kick them in the balls? Didn't our tax money go to teach her how to fight? I'm not trying to make the idiotic "she had it coming" argument here, which would go something like "of course they grabbed her breasts, look how big they are." Plus, just reaching out and grabbing some boob is wrong no matter what. When I was in college, even at our most drunken fraternity parties we never acted like that. No matter how hard I try I can't think of an excuse good enough to do something like that. But it's still nothing to lose a career over. Besides, fighter pilots are supposed to be aggressive assholes. That's what we pay them for. I don't know about you, but I don't want a navy full of fighter pilots who are gifted at giving sensitivity seminars. I want mad-dog, rabid killers going to battle for me and mine. Man or woman. When our stable gas prices are threatened by a Middle-Eastern Madman, when we want to force our form of government on some poor, unsuspecting Latin American country, when uppity foreign diplomats "forget" to pay their parking tickets, I want to be able to call on men and women who like to fight and drink. I want a naval officer who knows how to whack some drunk in the balls when he grabs her tits, not call a press conference, and a lawyer. If you're a wimp who doesn't know how to find the exit at a rowdy party, go fly a kite, not a jet fighter. -- So there. D.C.Don'tcha know we now have to be tolerant of all the homos, lesbos, fruitballs and other dickweeds out there; even though they don't have to be tolerant of us? Fuggim' all! At least someone still has a sense of humor, what the video 'Deerhunter' at this site (may take a few secs to load up). If you really want a laugh, scroll down and play 'Caught in the Act by US Military' (WARNING! NSFW!). 'Rollover Training' is pretty good as well! Cheers! M2
Guest XQSME Posted January 22, 2006 Posted January 22, 2006 f^ck you, you f&ckin f*ck That really illustrates the diversity of the word doesn’t it.
Guest T38driver Posted January 22, 2006 Posted January 22, 2006 Toro or Hoser...is this from the new Wng CC there? Or the current Wing CC?
Toro Posted January 22, 2006 Author Posted January 22, 2006 Current Wing CC. As for the SQ/CC, ditto Hoser. He's an outstanding guy and he thinks this is absolute bull$hit - but he knows which battles to fight, and this unfortunately isn't one of them. He fully supports singing songs with girlie bits and telling raunchy jokes, he just can't sanction it in the squadron.
devilviper Posted January 22, 2006 Posted January 22, 2006 I'm usually a lurker, but this topic requires a reply. Unfortunately, even the Guard is not immune from the slow, painful death facing most fighter traditions. Just found out two weeks ago that the ANG/CC has decided that fighter bars are inappropriate. That's right, no more alcohol allowed in any ANG fighter bar. YGBSM! If the Guard is not safe, what chance do the AD guys have? We'll be having a lot more evening tactics talks in the weapons shop, but that quite doesn't cut it... What really torques me is the fact that the leadership imposing these restrictions were all once fighter dudes who enjoyed our traditions to the fullest, but now that they are in power they readily sell out those traditions to prevent any blemish on their career ambitions. -Devilviper
Guest Ghost63 Posted January 22, 2006 Posted January 22, 2006 I agree that the people making these stupid decisions were, of course, part of the community at one time. It's been my experience though that they were probably over-sensitive douche bags from the beginning. For instance - I'd like to hear from some former peers about how these guys were earlier in their careers. The Amry, uh, dude who decided to sh!t-can decades of tradition and give every grabass in the army a black beret. Or, let's call cops "Security Forces" so they can wear a big "sf" on their sleeve. Or the other great army guy who demanded that all SF guys in theater shave their beards. ARE YOU FVCKING RETARDED?!?!?! In other words - just another justification for blanket parties when these jackasses are Lieutenants.
Guest CoupPawn Posted January 22, 2006 Posted January 22, 2006 Most likely what happened is some dumbass did something really stupid and offended someone, then leadership brought down the hammer and unwittingly punished everyone for one person's mishap. Probably one person (most likely a woman) was offended by using suggestive language, complained, then BAM!... no more fun anything. The emphasis is placed on satisfying a single person or small minority of individuals, versus the majority of people who would prefer to not change. However, after a while it's like that "Monkey see, monkey do" scenario; everyone will forget why we don't have some of the old traditions and instead just do it out of standard practice. One caveat of most people's inherent resistance to change is to look at what was born out of satisfying the minority: the Civil Rights movement, Women's Suffrage, the creation of the Air Force! Things that, IMHO, have made everyone's quality of life much better and more diverse. Of course, I do still believe there are those bozos out there that tend to take things a bit too far, a little beyond what is considered good practice and pragmatic for most people's needs. I believe that some of our attempts at educating ourselves about certain subjects end up hurting us all in the end, e.g. God knows how much we all love to sit through the 8 sexual assault briefings every year specifically targetting the male population of the DoD, telling us that we're rapists if we sleep with a woman who has had even one beer. We've only created a double standard in which men, who should be equally as right to pull a rape flag if they were piss-ass drunk, end up getting punished. I'm not even going to get into the eleventy billion breast cancer commercials on AFN I'm forced to watch while deployed, especially the verbally and visually graphic ones, with women sitting around a dinner table talking about their breasts; a woman in the shower clearly groping her own mamaries, etc. (Whereas men forced to watch the commercials for testicular cancer are given 1) a cartoon super hero telling us to check for testicular cancer which is comical at best; and 2)a "man-talk" about it between two buds in line at like the world's busiest airport with 300 people in the within whisper distance). In the end, I'd just like to say to those of you who were able to experience those fun, rich traditions, be thankful for the memories of them and look forward to the time when myself, or you or your buddy is a general and can start bringing us back to our roots and traditions. [ 22. January 2006, 15:29: Message edited by: CoupPawn ]
ClearedHot Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Originally posted by Ghost63: I agree that the people making these stupid decisions were, of course, part of the community at one time. It's been my experience though that they were probably over-sensitive douche bags from the beginning. For instance - I'd like to hear from some former peers about how these guys were earlier in their careers. The Amry, uh, dude who decided to sh!t-can decades of tradition and give every grabass in the army a black beret. Or, let's call cops "Security Forces" so they can wear a big "sf" on their sleeve. Or the other great army guy who demanded that all SF guys in theater shave their beards. ARE YOU FVCKING RETARDED?!?!?! In other words - just another justification for blanket parties when these jackasses are Lieutenants. Or the USAF guy that gave space dorks green flight suits and leather jackets.
Guest TheBurt Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Ok, Ok, So what are we going to do about it? Soon enough a lot of you guys are going to be the CC or Ops O right? Come up with a plan. Ideas? The O clubs have turned into a PC ass kissing club, they suck. Idea: #1 start your own club off-base, buy a shitty old house and start throwing your own parties, and don't invite those that you can't trust. Ya'll are the best and brightest, come up with some more ideas, because the gum shoes are taking over, and fast.
Guest Ghost63 Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Amen CH. Amen. The only worse thing about the uniform right now are those &*#%*@ v-neck t-shirts. Puke. Do about it? Nothing - they make the rules very carefully. None of them are enforceable, its all CYA stuff so they can burn you if it really gets bad. So if someone tries to change it back or make a stink of it, YOU look like the bad guy. They take care of those above them instead of those below them - and then wonder why people jump ship at the first reasonable opportunity. [ 22. January 2006, 19:19: Message edited by: Ghost63 ]
Guest Hoser Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Here's what chaps my arse about letting this tail wag the dog. Aircrew, by virtue of our job, leads us to interaction with other base agencies (finance to file travel vouchers from TDY's, TMO for moving, etc), but most of the cubicle folks have no idea what goes on once you cross the red line to the aircraft. They have no idea that aircrew can't work 8-4 with an hour for lunch. They'll close for two hours for an 'official' function (read someone's going away lunch), then they'll only work 1/2 day on Wednesday, so they can do 'training' in the afternoon. Closed for training? YGBSM. What ever happened to OJT. If we are going to let these folks influence singing / swearing / drinking policy, they should be forced out of their cubicle to get a friggin clue about what else is going on. Then, once they get a clue about what it is we do as aviators, we can they tell them to STFU. Hoser [ 22. January 2006, 20:00: Message edited by: Hoser ]
drewpey Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 in the infamous words of Colonel Walter E. Kurtz: "We train young men to drop fire on people. But their commanders won't allow them to write "!@#$" on their airplanes because it's obscene!" sad but true...
Guest lovelacm Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 Wow... Breakin' out the great Acropolis Now quotes!.. Uhm.. no.. Acapulco Now.. No... Albuquerque Now... Awww... Forget it. "The Horror... The Horror... The Horror..."
Guest SuperStallionIP Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 There is some serious big-time angst goin' on here! I like it!! Show me your war faces!!
zrooster99 Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 "Life sucks, get a helmet"Yeah, "Life sucks, get a f****n helmet", one of my all time favorite quotes... I put that up by my door when I was at the zoo (sans the f****n). Guess what, the thought police made me take it down. Oh well, f*** em if they can't take a joke... 3 weeks/9 rides 'til track. [ 22. January 2006, 21:46: Message edited by: zrooster99 ]
Guest Ghost63 Posted January 23, 2006 Posted January 23, 2006 "Then, once they get a clue about what it is we do as aviators, we can they tell them to STFU" On the rare occasion this happens, it's a sight to behold. Of course it's a big no-no, but through politics, it can happen. Once, it was even guys who SHOULD know the deal. We had two combat camera guys fly with us, and it was perfect. They got to see first hand the BS of being shot at by 2 AAA pieces at the same time and being denied clearance to shoot back...then we had a fire on the aircraft...and it was a 14.5+ hour sortie. They wouldn't speak to us after the flight. All we got was the finger and "I'll never get anywhere near that airplane again" mumbled as they walked away from life support. And they stole the loadmaster's Maxim. Now, can you IMAGINE a run of the mill bean counter's reaction. The thought just warms my heart. "There is some serious big-time angst goin' on here! I like it!! Show me your war faces!!" And you thought we were just happy with $300 toilet seats... :D [ 22. January 2006, 22:43: Message edited by: Ghost63 ]
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