Fighter Chicks

[Cooter]

Sorry, all I see is the RED X of the comm nazi's...I'm retarded.

Cooter

[M2]

Cooter

That might be due to the fact that the picture is linked from Chairforce.com, which may be blocked by your Net Nazis. Here it is again, from Photobucket...

Cheers! M2

[ClearedHot]

Word getting out...they took the picture of MGen Breedlove down.

[ 08. August 2006, 16:01: Message edited by: ClearedHot ]

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Standard.

The picture is not what matters. The fact that there was an opportunity for a "hugging and kissing" picture to be taken is what is totally wrong.

It's a one way street and it leads straight to bad things.

Let's see how long it lasts on here...

[Ram]

Originally posted by Rainman A-10:

Standard.

The picture is not what matters. The fact that there was an opportunity for a "hugging and kissing" picture to be taken is what is totally wrong.

It's a one way street and it leads straight to bad things.

Let's see how long it lasts on here...

I agree. Stuff like that is entirely inappropriate. If it happens, it should stay in the Doofer Book.

(As in, don't f*cking post it on your website.)

[Guest SpectrePilot]

If you happen to be a subordinate (or even equal) female, and you wanna kiss me on the cheek, cut the rug on the dance floor, or flirt a little when we're OFF base and OUT of uniform and AWAY from the troops-- fine. I'd probably welcome it.

(And perhaps a time or two in my career I have!

You know who you are....)

But I digress: the double-standard exhibited in the above photo is so f--kin absurd. If I was to ask a random female superior officer to let me kiss her on the cheek for a photo op, I'd probably be out on my arse before my slobber had even dried from her cheek!!!!

[Guest SpectrePilot]

Oh, and here's another thing for the masses to comment on:

Apparently this past weekend some Navy flight school student decided to participate in a bikini contest at a LOCAL bar. (I must say I wasn't there since I participated in the afternoon Navy Regatta festivities, and thus passed out by sundown....)

Is that "conduct unbecoming" an Officer? I'd say so, especially in a locale where she KNEW she was surrounded by brothers-in-arms.

(Privacy of home or on vacation somewhere? Perhaps a different story...)

If you SNAPs have comments on this or my previous post, I'd love to hear em. There's a backlash underway-- but long overdue-- in the military against out-of-line women. By that I mean obvious, unashamed unprofessional conduct is starting to be dealt with. Just as it has been on us men for the last 10-15 years.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

And none of this helps us kill more bad guys.

What a waste.

[Guest KoolKat]

Originally posted by Safe&Clear:

Apparently this past weekend some Navy flight school student decided to participate in a bikini contest at a LOCAL bar. (I must say I wasn't there since I participated in the afternoon Navy Regatta festivities, and thus passed out by sundown....)

I distinctly remember a few of those said events in lovely Corpus Christi. Granted, I only observed...

Maybe if she just didn't accept the prize money and kept her amatuer status, it would be okay?

The only thing that seems like straight fact in this thread is that Col. Tom REALLY likes to boogey. I mean, what EXACTLY was this guy thinking?

BENDER RULE #22: No cameras within 2 blocks of anywhere I'm thinking about dancing. Mostly for the sake of your camera, but also for my own protection.

Not that it matters, camera aren't even allowed in any place I'd go after 6am anyways.

herk28...You still owe me that beer! I have not forgotten.

BENDY

[Toro]

The hornet's nest has been stirred. Discuss all you want, but keep it civil or this thread will get locked.

I don't plan on removing the Breedlove picture and suggest none of the other moderators do so. If you've got gripes with that, PM me.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Copy, fight's on (just kidding Toro)...

Originally posted by HerkChik:

There's no difference between that girl in the bikini contest and some guy walking around exposing himself at a party where both male and female officers are...

Yes there is.

Originally posted by HerkChik:

For some reason these girls get considerably more crap for doing what guys do all the time.

No they don't.

Originally posted by HerkChik:

The double standard does exist - females have to watch their behavior MUCH more so than males - even if it's "acceptable" behavior by military standards -

Huh?

No idea what you're talking about.

Originally posted by HerkChik:

their personal life is talked about in a much different way than the males. I see it all the time.

Huh?

Is it possible that women care more about what people say about their "personal lives"?

Originally posted by HerkChik:

...you go to work, bust your ass, and go home...any problems I have had as a female in the workplace have...been due to the guys who cannot remain professional and cannot keep their personal lives (and that of those around them) personal.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here but it sounds like a "personal" problem.

BL, a female officer walks into the CC or IG's office and says "Male officer so and so made a derogatory comment about/to me!" gets a different reaction than if a male officer says the same thing about a female officer. Wildly different.

I'm sorry if someone says something bad about your personal life "all the time" but I don't believe that is what happens to every female officer in the Air Force.

[Guest sleepy]

Too many side conversations to bother placing quotes.

On the Breedlove picture...

There were three officers in that picture. All three are to blame. Period. Dot. S&C is right: If the O-7 had been female, and the O-3's had been male, the shit would have really hit the fan.

As far as the fighter chicks website. I dunno, I don't care. I'm glad they fly fighters. Print T-shirts, bake cookies, darn colorful socks, but a website? If you're gonna beat your chest in gayful jest, you've got to go over-the-top. A website is only half way. Bring it on, sistas!

Hell, I'm not yet an officer, but I think I know a little bit about propriety. Believe it or not, Bendy and I are in complete agreement on what that means. Well, most of the time, at least. I'm still a learnin'.

[Guest SpectrePilot]

HerkChic, if I saw some guy exposing himself at a party (I'm assuming you don't mean his pec's??), I would be the first to report it and help string him up.

I often find myself as the senior ranking guy at spontaneous parties around Corpus. (IE the horseshoe throwing incident last summer) I'm a "cool" IP, I can hang socially off-duty, but I do have lines and won't idly watch them crossed in the presence of the masses.

I'm also a sport-skydiver on my off-time. What a fun sport. But there are a LOT of freaks involved who get some sort of thrill out of very distasteful comments at all opportunities, getting naked and raunchy around the bonfire at night etc.

I don't care for this part of the scene at all. And would NOT tolerate it if it were AF flight-crew participating instead of a group of weirdo skydivers.

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Originally posted by HerkChik:

Rainman, just so you know, it's not a problem I personally have.

Sorry, I guess I inferred that was true because I used the dictionary definitions of the exact words you used in your sentences.

I'm not good at guessing what people "really mean".

Originally posted by HerkChik:

With all due respect,

Has anybody seen Talledega Nights yet?

Originally posted by HerkChik:

And let's not forget, people, that its a picture of a kiss on the cheek - nothing more.

Does it matter what part of the body a subordinate officer (by five ranks) who is in the senior officer's chain of command kisses that senior officer?

Originally posted by HerkChik:

And it was "consensual", which makes a difference also. It would be a different case if any of those people (including the guy) didn't appreciate the gesture.

Here's is where you are totally and completely full of shit.

No way that was approriate behavior.

You say it is ok if it is consensual.

I say it is NEVER ok.

C'mon, "the guy" is a Major General, not another captain in the squadron.

I can't believe you can't see the Pandora's container that is ripped wide open when people do things like this.

If Breedlove wanted to nail a stripper, fine.

If the "Fighterchicks" wanted to lick on a Chippendale, fine.

If junior officers want to kiss a General Officer and/or a General Officer wants a couple junior officers to kiss him...NOT FINE.

I honestly can't believe that you or anyone else can't see why this is dangerous. I'll assume it is an experience and maturity thing (and I mean absolutely nothing derogatory when I say that).

Certainly Breedlove should've known better.

[Guest sleepy]

HerkChik-

I know you aren't "picking a fight" with me, but if I may...

That picture is ammunition for a number of attackers. I don't know enough to give decent examples, but I have been around long enough to know when something isn't good.

My example (and nothing but love for my Guard buddies if you're reading): While hitting the town one night during UTA weekend, one guy made the comment about it being good that we four could pair up in the hotel room. The reason this is good, he said, was because if one of us wanted to bring a girl back one night, the logistics would be easy.

I said NO. True, we aren't officers yet, but we are going to be. There are a lot of enlisted folks at the hotel. On top of that, Uncle Sam is footing the bill for the room. Something about that doesn't jive well with me.

Pardon the dumbstuff I might have said. I got busy while typing this.

EDIT: to de-muddify the waters. I'm talking about propriety. That's it.

[ 09. August 2006, 14:23: Message edited by: sleepy ]

[Batman]

Originally posted by HerkChik:

But everyone involved is EQUALLY at fault. Period.

Uh, no they're not. The most senior officer, male or female, is at fault for letting it happen.

Batman

[Guest Rainman A-10]

Originally posted by HerkChik:

Rainman -

Look, there's no need to get so nasty here. I corrected my statement and there's no need to be a smart$%^.

Don't take it personally. Be an adult. I'm just stating the facts. What I'm saying is the truth. You can deny it or not understand it or take it as a personal attack on you or sisterhood or whatever you want. I would suggest you just take what I'm saying at face value.

Originally posted by HerkChik:

I personally wish they had never posted that picture, because it makes the world a little more difficult for the rest of us.

I'm not sure how you can make the leap that a picture posted on some website is going to somehow effect you.

This is not about you.

Originally posted by HerkChik:

no one seems to be hammering the ranking officer.

You're not listening.

Everyone is saying he had a major dip in SA that could cost him his career.

Everyone also slammed the Col in the other picture, too.

Everyone agrees that the senior officers are completely retarded for doing this. Completely retarded.

This is also true...

The fact that the women wanted to lick on him is not right either. Their SA is extremely low. It is hard to believe that they thought it was smart to put the picture up on the internet. It shows some real lack of judgement.

Originally posted by HerkChik:

What makes it hard to listen to everyone complaining about this picture is that there's never a thread about how pissed off you got at your buddies at UPT for sleeping with an enlisted chick.

OK, let's see if we can get this in perspective here.

What you're saying is that if some guys started a website like www.FighterPimpsBustingEnlistedTeenCherrries.com and had pictures of dudes smothering enlisted women no one would say they were dumbasses? C'mon already.

How about this, you think there might be some people in the bar that thought those women might get favorable treatment from "The Boss" because they appear to be on such unusually friendly terms?

What about the ugly women in the bar? Or the women who chose to keep their hands to themselves? Or any guy in the bar? You don't think there is a chance one of them might think those women have a leg up on them and say something to the IG? Breedlove would be toast in less than 24 hours.

These women put their own performance under scrutiny when they act like that. Everyone can say they got promoted or avoided the Predator assignment because they were always dry humping the big guy in the bar.

Are you seriously telling us you can't see the point here?

[Scooter14]

Originally posted by Rainman A-10:

What you're saying is that if some guys started a website like www.FighterPimpsBustingEnlistedTeenCherrries.com and had pictures of dudes smothering enlisted women no one would say they were dumbasses? C'mon already.

I can't get that link to work. Anyone else having trouble?

[Bishop]

works fine here have you updated your flashplayer? cookies enabled? :D

This all reminds me of an airshow kick-off party a few years ago. There was this extremely attractive (think Jenny McCarthy in a flight suit with black rimmed glasses in her hayday) navy -53 aircrew (dont recall rank, and squadron just remember patch had a spider on it)

While I was leaving I saw her dancing sandwiched between 2 guys (all very inebriated) it gave me a minor sense of shock, thinking it could go over very badly and quickly get out of hand but mostly i wanted to be one of the guys on either side of her .

Coming from my viewpoint (someone that hasnt been around this stuff at all) it appears to be a picture of people having fun, it amazes me that some believe he could lose his career over it, I guess my civilian mind doesn't see it as a big deal.

One person mentioned it, but Im cutious of others opinions is this more of a big deal because they are in uniform? or would it matter as much if they were out of uniform?

[ 09. August 2006, 15:57: Message edited by: Bishop ]

[Guest SpectrePilot]

So what we really need to do is ensure there are plenty of ugly women to keep the cute ones in line! Perfect.

Only problem is of late it seems we have less and less ugly women. Back in the 90's there was no shortage of em.

[Guest sleepy]

Originally posted by Batman:

Uh, no they're not. The most senior officer, male or female, is at fault for letting it happen.

[Guest DangerousLT]

"One person mentioned it, but Im cutious of others opinions is this more of a big deal because they are in uniform? or would it matter as much if they were out of uniform?"

*****

Once you join ROTC, you'll get an idea. Then again...

A couple years back when I was casual, I asked my first DO what the low down on fraternization in the AF was, because clearly it wasn't what they were teaching in ROTC. He quickly boiled it down for me.

"Whatever you do, don't get caught!"

Sound advice, if you ask me. Posting a pic like this on their gay website doesn't seem too smart.

[ 09. August 2006, 16:11: Message edited by: Skids Down ]

[trailmix]

Originally posted by Rainman A-10:

I'm not sure how you can make the leap that a picture posted on some website is going to somehow effect you.

This is not about you.

Aw comeon Rainman... you've got a wife and a daughter! You haven't learned that when a chick opens her mouth it's ALWAYS about her?

"Women claim to want a man who is a good conversationalist... that is incorrect... women want a man who asks the proper questions which, in turn, allow them to run their f*cking mouths!"

~Chris Rock :D

[ 09. August 2006, 16:19: Message edited by: trailmix ]

[Guest KoolKat]

Originally posted by Bishop:

Coming from my viewpoint (someone that hasnt been around this stuff at all) it appears to be a picture of people having fun, it amazes me that some believe he could lose his career over it, I guess my civilian mind doesn't see it as a big deal.

One person mentioned it, but Im cutious of others opinions is this more of a big deal because they are in uniform? or would it matter as much if they were out of uniform?

It's really not that difficult of a concept. Unfourtunately, the concrete rank structure of the military seems to breed it's importance, which is probably where you fail to see the significance.

Perception is sometimes more important than reality. Favoritism is generally ruled by this concept. It happens, in reality, less than it is percieved, although I does happen.

Even in the civilian world, this percieved favoritism toward one person can leave others feeling extremely bitter. Especially, even if by coincidence or based on the merits of reality, said person recieves some "good deal," whatever it may be. (Avoiding predators was a pretty decent example.)

The picture itself may not seem like a big deal in and of itself, I can see what you mean by that. However, for those with a little more experience, they understand that it's simply a snapshot of behavior. Behavior that was carried out in front of alot of people. The picture doesn't show you the negatives of the behavior, it just shows them having a good time.

Even if they weren't in uniform, the behavior still carries the exact same negatives. The uniforms definitly don't make it better, but it doesn't really make it worse either.

I know from personal experience, I don't have to be wearing my flight suit for people to know who I am. Just because I leave the bag at home doesn't mean I can just go out and do whatever I want.

At first, I was kinda disappointed rainman went and got all serious, although I can kinda blame HerkChick for that too. However, if some of the younger guys can't understand where the bad juju lies in this whole thing, then it's good to have a more serious discussion about it.

S&C: The "horse shoe incident," yikes...talk about something I couldn't get enough distance from. I'd have kept walking if it hadn't been for that wooden fence. What a silly waste, and a buzz kill.

I have to go help return somebody to their family. You guys (& HerkChick) all have a good day.

BENDY

[Guest Shock]

Wow, this picture has generated some serious controversy. I’m one of the girls in the picture and hopefully I can clear things up.

First of all, yes, very low SA on my part. I allowed the picture to be posted on the website. That was dumb.

About the picture: It was at a farewell party for the Col and the entire base was there (so there was nothing to hide from anyone). Somebody wanted a picture of him with the two of us so the other girl and I decided at the count of three, we would give him a “peck” on the cheek. Yes, that was totally inappropriate. It was done as a stunt to surprise him and make him laugh (along with a lot of other people who happened to be standing nearby). After the picture, we shook his hand and left. It wasn't some crazy after hours party.

Now you know the story behind the picture. Please stop speculating that there was more going on than that. There wasn’t. I’m sorry that it caused so many problems.

As for our CFPA website; glad some of you like it, sorry some of you don’t. We’re not taking ourselves too seriously over it. It’s fun for us and is a great way to keep in touch. Yes, we make fun of ourselves, our gear, piddle packs, what happens to boobs at 9 Gs, etc. We’re not a bunch of feminists trying to bad mouth guys.

We’re a group of fighter pilots with one thing in common. Some of us have been flying fighters for 10+ years and when you’re the only girl for such a long time, it’s kind of nice to have some other chick friends with similar experiences. The experiences I’m talking about aren’t about discrimination or “woe is me,” they’re about typical girl things...”where’s the good shopping in Asia" or "who cuts your hair at Balad?” Sometimes we talk about the issues of pregnancy or marriage as a fighter pilot. Sometimes we argue tactics and make fun of each other's communities. That’s all. If you want to make a website with a BFPA, or a MFPA, go for it. I promise, you will not be able to offend me.

Again, I apologize for the controversy.

Shock