Changing/Switching airframes

[Boomer6]

27 minutes ago, RonaldRAGIN said:

I'm talking about those who excel at their job, show initiative and have great flying skill. People who may have been passed up due to manning or some other circumstances in UPT that may have put them out of a 38 slot when they were overall more qualified than people before or after them who were simply luckier in their track select. For example: two wash backs one being a top performer from their class and an international student both from different classes causing what is in effect 2 less spaces for those in the class that received them.

What other options are there? What can be done to help alleviate the problem the Air Force is currently experiencing? 

So you want to send Captains finishing up a T-1 FAIP tour to go through -38s and then to IFF, or just straight to B course?

[Boomer6]

15 minutes ago, RonaldRAGIN said:

I'm saying send T-6 FAIPs to some 38 spin up course then to IFF and B-course. If their performance, reviews and attitude dictate obviously. 

T-6 FAIPs that went through  T-1s?

[Duck]

The Air Force isn't looking for fighter pilots. They are looking for 11Fs. The benefit of getting an 11M is that they bring the experience of operating in the system, deployments, MWS experience, exercises, etc. No offense to any of my FAIP friends but they have such a small perspective on what awaits them outside of AETC.

I foresee most of these 11M to 11F guys being fodder for staff, ALO, non-flying 11F billets and maybe T-38s/IFF. And as much as it pains me to say it, it makes sense to do it that way.

I'm a kick-@ss pilot. Probably the best one I will ever know, but put me in a fighter against dudes that have been doing it for 4-6 more years and 1,000+ hours more and it's going to take time and $$$ to get me caught up... And as a soon to be/pinned on Major, guess what two things the Air Force doesn't want to spend on me? Time and $$$. At least not to get me to be an "expert" in my MWS.

Some dudes will get multiple Ops tours but still be behind their peers. Others will get the requirements to call them "experienced" and shuttled off to help the other aspects of being an 11F so that the experienced war fighters can operate the death machines and train the young 2LTs who just signed up for a 15-year post UPT commitment...

[LookieRookie]

42 minutes ago, RonaldRAGIN said:

I'm saying send T-6 FAIPs to some 38 spin up course then to IFF and B-course. If their performance, reviews and attitude dictate obviously. 

Are you a T-6 FAIP that flew T-1s?

[Jaded]

He should just edit his post, "I think I should be allowed to transition to fighters because I'm a good pilot. And stuff."

[Sprkt69]

You only need a couple of hours in a T-38 and you'll be ready for IFF right?

[LookieRookie]

26 minutes ago, Sprkt69 said:

You only need a couple of hours in a T-38 and you'll be ready for IFF right?

Aka the T-38 qual syllabus to allow T-1 pilots to enter IFF. There's a syllabus for just that and it's essentially phase 3 of UPT.

[Skitzo]

As someone who was TAMIed and still around I'm sort of laughing. Not really laughing but sort of thinking of calling the B-1 desk tomorrow and asking what my chances are


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[magnetfreezer]

1 hour ago, Skitzo said:

As someone who was TAMIed and still around I'm sort of laughing. Not really laughing but sort of thinking of calling the B-1 desk tomorrow and asking what my chances are


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Given that we're taking B-52 guys now, better than you think

[di1630]

What is the "top qualified FAIP pool?"

Top FAIP = King turd on Shit Island.

[pawnman]

11 hours ago, Duck said:

The Air Force isn't looking for fighter pilots. They are looking for 11Fs. The benefit of getting an 11M is that they bring the experience of operating in the system, deployments, MWS experience, exercises, etc. No offense to any of my FAIP friends but they have such a small perspective on what awaits them outside of AETC.

I foresee most of these 11M to 11F guys being fodder for staff, ALO, non-flying 11F billets and maybe T-38s/IFF. And as much as it pains me to say it, it makes sense to do it that way.

I'm a kick-@ss pilot. Probably the best one I will ever know, but put me in a fighter against dudes that have been doing it for 4-6 more years and 1,000+ hours more and it's going to take time and $$$ to get me caught up... And as a soon to be/pinned on Major, guess what two things the Air Force doesn't want to spend on me? Time and $$$. At least not to get me to be an "expert" in my MWS.

Some dudes will get multiple Ops tours but still be behind their peers. Others will get the requirements to call them "experienced" and shuttled off to help the other aspects of being an 11F so that the experienced war fighters can operate the death machines and train the young 2LTs who just signed up for a 15-year post UPT commitment...

Well, we're already sending 11Bs and 12Bs to fill 11F staff billets.  One may wonder why we would even bother sending an 11M through a B-course to just put them on staff.

[pawnman]

9 hours ago, Skitzo said:

As someone who was TAMIed and still around I'm sort of laughing. Not really laughing but sort of thinking of calling the B-1 desk tomorrow and asking what my chances are


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We could certainly use you.

[Duck]

Well, we're already sending 11Bs and 12Bs to fill 11F staff billets.  One may wonder why we would even bother sending an 11M through a B-course to just put them on staff.

I don't think it's only going to be staff, but I just don't see the majority of these guys getting multiple Ops tours and progressing like a normal fighter dude.

[Bode]

I think it all goes back to what you want out of your career. If you do this its probably because you care more about the experience than careerism. I've seen many a major or light col walking around just flying the line because they died on the upward movement but at least they are still doing what they love (I hope).

I'm throwing my name in the ring because careerism isn't important to me and am not worried about promotions. If me going to help out with an AF wide manning issue screws up my ability to get promoted or have "normal progression" then the big blue will loss me as soon as my ADSC for the FTU is over.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Duck]

Most of those Lt Cols are the result of the last manning crisis.

[Duck]

At my base they are personally going around to each of us that we're T-38 to MAF guys and asking us if we were interested. I was more than happy to tell my commander:

"Boss, 8 years ago, back when I went through T-38s I would of said not only yes, but hell yeah. Since the Air Force has since booted me to AMC and then tried to RIF me twice since then, I am sorry but I don't feel like helping out in this "crisis" they created. I will be 7-day opting any assignment that I get out of here and going to the ANG unit that has already hired me and the civilian company waiting for me. But I 'preciate the offer."

Then I dropped the mic and he told me he would do the same thing.

[B.L]

At my base they are personally going around to each of us that we're T-38 to MAF guys and asking us if we were interested.

UFB. Answer is in front of their face and they refuse to see it. This is why I hate the Air Force sometimes. I'm an open volunteer (and I'm not the only one!) but because I'm an MC-12 dude...no dice. I don't get it.

[di1630]

Guys, if you have even a RCH inclination to volunteers for a cross flow, do it. Worst case you can go back to flying heavies when your adsc is up. I've never met a heavy > fighter cross flow who regretted it.

For those thinking "But my precious career and school slot!"........F-ck that!

I know a lot of former pilots/generals and not one of them ever talked about how they miss command or schools. But they tell me often how much they miss the flying and when it's over, it's over.

Nobody outside big blue will ever give a shit that you were an in-res ACSC/AWC guy below the zone.....but you'll be talking about your flying stories and experiences your whole life.

[Bode]

Guys, if you have even a RCH inclination to volunteers for a cross flow, do it. Worst case you can go back to flying heavies when your adsc is up. I've never met a heavy > fighter cross flow who regretted it.

For those thinking "But my precious career and school slot!"........F-ck that!

I know a lot of former pilots/generals and not one of them ever talked about how they miss command or schools. But they tell me often how much they miss the flying and when it's over, it's over.

Nobody outside big blue will ever give a shit that you were an in-res ACSC/AWC guy below the zone.....but you'll be talking about your flying stories and experiences your whole life.

Well put!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WTFAF]

UFB. Answer is in front of their face and they refuse to see it. This is why I hate the Air Force sometimes. I'm an open volunteer (and I'm not the only one!) but because I'm an MC-12 dude...no dice. I don't get it.

Sorry bro, that sucks. But you should be aware of how the AF got itself in this bind in the first place. No amount of MC-12 bubbas is going to fix shit.

[B.L]

Sorry bro, that sucks. But you should be aware of how the AF got itself in this bind in the first place. No amount of MC-12 bubbas is going to fix shit.

100% agreed. They screwed the pooch a by shutting down the fighter pipeline for 3-4 years and are now paying the consequences. It just baffles me their logic in this whole debacle the AF has created for itself and how the right hand isn't talking to the left.

AFPC doing one thing leadership saying something completely different. AF standard right?


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

[ViperStud]

8 hours ago, B.L said:

 

100% agreed. They screwed the pooch a by shutting down the fighter pipeline for 3-4 years and are now paying the consequences. It just baffles me their logic in this whole debacle the AF has created for itself and how the right hand isn't talking to the left.

AFPC doing one thing leadership saying something completely different. AF standard right?


Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums

 

Dude that was only 1/3 of the problem. The second part was the queep creep and resulting decrease in QOL. The last part, beyond the AF's control, is massive competition from the airlines - better pay and QOL for less work. 

This is why the problem is only going to get worse. Even if AD could wave a magic wand and fix some problems, the competition for resources is still there. 

[Duck]

The last part, beyond the AF's control, is massive competition from the airlines - better pay and QOL for less work. 

This is why the problem is only going to get worse. Even if AD could wave a magic wand and fix some problems, the competition for resources is still there. 

I partly disagree with this. If you ask any UPT stud if they want to do the airlines maybe 2% will say that is their goal.

Ask any Capt/Maj and only about 2% want to stay in. So something is happening between year 1 and 8.

I think we would be surprised what some good, top to bottom leadership would do to retention and QOL. For too long the Air Force has taken for granted that their people just had no other options. "You unhappy? Fine, just leave. We will find someone else to replace you."

I am not saying that increasing airline pay isn't enticing some to leave, but I would say that the mass exodus to the airlines is really just a symptom of the larger issues that the Air Force has failed to address. I can go into specifics but I think that has been beat to death.

The Air Force has successfully turned the best job in the world into something that dudes are jumping over each other to leave... That's hard to do.

[koga15]

Oddly enough there has been no word of any of this for me, a heavy driver in ACC. Heard about it from a MAF buddy. Can't find anything on MYPERS either. Had to come here for any info. 

[Sprkt69]

46 minutes ago, Duck said:

I partly disagree with this. If you ask any UPT stud if they want to do the airlines maybe 2% will say that is their goal.

Ask any Capt/Maj and only about 2% want to stay in. So something is happening between year 1 and 8.

I think we would be surprised what some good, top to bottom leadership would do to retention and QOL. For too long the Air Force has taken for granted that their people just had no other options. "You unhappy? Fine, just leave. We will find someone else to replace you."

I am not saying that increasing airline pay isn't enticing some to leave, but I would say that the mass exodus to the airlines is really just a symptom of the larger issues that the Air Force has failed to address. I can go into specifics but I think that has been beat to death.

The Air Force has successfully turned the best job in the world into something that dudes are jumping over each other to leave... That's hard to do.

Anyone with two working brain cells saw this exodus more than 10 yrs ago. The amazing thing was that our pretty darn good upper management ignored/denied all the signs even after being directly briefed