Changing/Switching airframes

[pawnman]

On 9/15/2016 at 9:36 PM, WheelsOff said:

I agree, but this wasn't at the schoolhouse. 

"Man, we can't keep anyone current for night A/R"  

"Why can't we schedule these flight lead sorties?"

"We're having a really hard time getting people through FIC, I don't understand why."

[PitchTrimmer]

Has anyone heard anything about the MAF to CAF thing lately?  It went from an email, then dudes meeting with O-6's a week later, and now crickets.

[Azimuth]

On 11/14/2016 at 11:00 PM, PitchTrimmer said:

Has anyone heard anything about the MAF to CAF thing lately?  It went from an email, then dudes meeting with O-6's a week later, and now crickets.

Enjoy your BUFF.

[Duck]

This whole thing was a MAF driven tasker to gauge interest. It hadn't been approved by anyone of any importance. The earliest they were projecting, if it even happens, would be 2017. In the meantime they are flooding the FTUs with brand new 2Lts who have a 10 year prison sentence with no possibility of parole.


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[PitchTrimmer]

47 minutes ago, Duck said:

This whole thing was a MAF driven tasker to gauge interest. It hadn't been approved by anyone of any importance. The earliest they were projecting, if it even happens, would be 2017. In the meantime they are flooding the FTUs with brand new 2Lts who have a 10 year prison sentence with no possibility of parole.


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Gotcha thanks.  Didn't know it was started by the MAF.

[viper154]

2 hours ago, Azimuth said:

Enjoy your BUFF.

I would happily trade my RPA for a buff. And they are laying waste to stuff in places like a boss right now. 

[Duck]

They are about to find out there is a pending MAF shortage too. But don't tell the Generals, they still think morale is "Pretty darn good".


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[jazzdude]

They already know the MAF shortage is coming...

[ThreeHoler]

They already know the MAF shortage is coming...

They already know the MAF shortage is here.

Panic at the disco (Pentagon)!


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[LookieRookie]

AFPC rated assignments had a plan to send 4 11M T-38 UPT instructors to cross flow into fighters (since they don't need 38 spin up). AETC/A3 non-concurred though due to no backfill plan.

The 4 MAF dudes weren't selected yet.

 

 

Edited November 19, 2016 by LookieRookie
Clarified my post

[Danger41]

8 hours ago, LookieRookie said:

AFPC rated assignments had a plan to send 4 11M T-38 UPT instructors to IFF. AETC/A3 non-concurred though due to no backfill plan.

The 4 MAF dudes weren't selected yet.

I think having MAF guys train upt 38's is a great idea. It's well within their abilities. However, making them be IFF instructors is a bad idea. They could pick up the basics of rate fights, jinks, setups, etc, but they would have no credibility with their peers or the students. Same thing if was a C-17 guy going through airdrop school and some Viper guy shows up to teach me how--I'd scoff him big time.

[LookieRookie]

4 minutes ago, Danger41 said:

I think having MAF guys train upt 38's is a great idea. It's well within their abilities. However, making them be IFF instructors is a bad idea. They could pick up the basics of rate fights, jinks, setups, etc, but they would have no credibility with their peers or the students. Same thing if was a C-17 guy going through airdrop school and some Viper guy shows up to teach me how--I'd scoff him big time.

I should have clarified. The plan was for them to cross flow into fighters. They could just go straight into IFF as studs.

Edited November 19, 2016 by LookieRookie

[Danger41]

Ahhh, okay. That sounds like a good idea.  Until 5 years from now when these 10,000 fighter guys have to go fly C-17's and tankers.

[Disco_Nav963]

21 hours ago, inward_eye said:

My first post after lurking for 4+ years. For those selected to crossflow from the MAF to bombers, what should they expect after a 3-4 year assignment? Staff? UPT? Another ops tour? I imagine they would be in a similar situation like FAIPs entering into their first MWS. Would they be too "old" for special programs such as WIC and Striker Vista? What do you think are the drawbacks to this opportunity? 

Depends on how young you are when you make the switch... My instinct is that Striker Vista is most likely out, but WIC is a distinct possibility. I crossflowed from 12R to B-52s as a 1st year Captain and graduated the B-52 WIC as an O-4 select in the second-to-last class I could have applied for without a waiver for >10 years TAFCSD. Those waivers tend to be hard to get for WSOs but can be had for Pilots/EWOs because fewer tend to apply in the first place. (e.g. In 16A only 3 of the 4 pilot slots were filled; in 16B only 1 of the 2 EWO slots was.) I personally know a pilot who went as an O-4 on a waiver after an ALO tour. (I also know at least four B-52 patches that were FAIPs, including my current DO and a guy from my class.) You should probably finish MQT before you start worrying about USAFWS, but I will say it greatly helps your chances of avoiding an ALFA tour and staying in the community if your leadership considers you a WIC candidate.

Pros: Drop bombs, kill bad guys, when not killing bad guys from the Deid spend time in the tropical paradise of Guam. 

Cons: Ops tempo... because AFGSC made a conscious decision to trade manning (crew ratio) for upgrades a few years ago, it feels like we chase our tails a lot (deployments, BAAD missions, mini-deployments, nuke exercises, WSEPs, etc) and we're always only one or two DNIF WSOs/EWOs away from mission failure. 6 month deployments are too long (see ops tempo above, 6 months of Deid ops is exhausting... and bad for proficiency at nuke, conventional standoff, for-realsies interdiction, and maritime; 6 months of Guam feels like "Why am I away from my family for 6 months to do training and BAAD-type missions I can do from home?"... and also bad for EWO proficiency due to shitty threat replication).

It Depends: Basing (stronger community at Minot, but much more remote; units are less tight at KBAD, but very easy to get to Dallas, Little Rock, New Orleans, or Memphis on the weekend). Nuke mission (I love it and I'm proud to do it; other people are "F--- these exercises and f--- PRP"). 

Drawbacks: If you make the switch too late, always the chance that you won't be sufficiently "one of us" to your SR to have a shot at school or even a DP. (IMO you'd want to start the FTU NLT 2.69 years before your Major's board to have ~2 years in the ops squadron beforehand.) If you already have a good thing going in your current community, staying there is path of least resistance.

I say go for it... This shit is too much fun not to.

[08Dawg]

On 3/1/2017 at 2:05 PM, inward_eye said:

My first post after lurking for 4+ years. For those selected to crossflow from the MAF to bombers, what should they expect after a 3-4 year assignment? Staff? UPT? Another ops tour? I imagine they would be in a similar situation like FAIPs entering into their first MWS. Would they be too "old" for special programs such as WIC and Striker Vista? What do you think are the drawbacks to this opportunity? 

Although we only just put through our first two Bone-to-Buff Striker Vista guys, I get the sense they were "could've easily gone to WIC but still on a command track" types, so that's likely out.  Both our guys pinned on major while at the FTU, too, to give you a sense of where they were in the timeline.  I'd expect to stick around.  After hemorrhaging IPs/ACs the last couple of years to back fill 11F white jet bills, nobody is going anywhere this spring/summer.  We're seriously hurting on manning all across the board.   If you want to stick around and fly, it should be pretty easy. 

[pawnman]

On 3/1/2017 at 2:05 PM, inward_eye said:

My first post after lurking for 4+ years. For those selected to crossflow from the MAF to bombers, what should they expect after a 3-4 year assignment? Staff? UPT? Another ops tour? I imagine they would be in a similar situation like FAIPs entering into their first MWS. Would they be too "old" for special programs such as WIC and Striker Vista? What do you think are the drawbacks to this opportunity? 

Everything Disco_Nav said about BUFFs applies to Bones as well.   We're also undermanned and looking for more pilots and WSOs.  As far as I know, we haven't had problems filling our WIC classes, but that's going to start changing as we take more and more late-to-rate folks and folks who flew something else (so far mostly FAIPs and MC-12 folks, but I anticipate some other options as the fighter pilot shortage puts the squeeze on rated manning across the board).  Bonus - Rapid City is a way better place to live than Minot, and you won't have to deal with PRP or nukes.

[Disco_Nav963]

20 hours ago, pawnman said:

Bonus - Rapid City is a way better place to live than Minot, and you won't have to deal with PRP or nukes.

You've got me there. Rapid City is a hidden gem.

[WheelsOff]

Just saw an official PSDM today (forget the number) via email soliciting eligible MAF dudes to crossflow to the CAF for FY18 training slots. (After the 11B functional told us at PIT several months back that this wouldn't happen?) Anyways...highlights, from what I can remember:

- must have flown 38s in UPT

- no Q2/Q3s in FEF

- must be an AC in current MWS

- 2 yrs TOS by I think Oct '17?

- desired: 2009-13 yr group for fighters, 2011-13 yr group for bombers

 

Seems like they're only taking 8 individuals that must go through some sort of selection process. 4 to fighters, 4 to bombers. Reached out to the POC via email and couldn't confirm what airframes/numbers of each, but confirmed the B-2 was off the table. Seems like a trial program if only taking 8 people...not gonna put a dent in the problem with those numbers.

My hunch: 4 Buffs and 4 Vipers. Good luck to those interested. Seems like a big step back career-wise, especially for the older eligible year groups. 

[matmacwc]

Welcome to being the read headed step-children of a community, but I would have probably done it.  You come into the community as a senior captain with 0 credibility but need some sort of FLT/CC experience to make rank, maybe you get it, maybe you do not.  Enjoy it while it lasts, start looking up home's in Del Rio or Creech.  Hate to be a Debbie Downer, but this is the reality.

Edited April 14, 2017 by matmacwc

[Fuzz]

The AMC/A3 told a couple of our guys who were interested for the offer earlier this year that AMC guys would go bombers and bomber guys would go fighters but no heavies would go fighters. I'd be surprised if it changed that fast. 

Im also curious why AC is a requirement.

[Kenny Powers]

Not to bring up our favorite dick measuring topic, but...

If their community has not upgraded them to AC, why would you throw them in a fighter where they're going to be the AC?

Admittedly, I don't know anything about what it's like to be a co-pilot or anything about heavies as far as CRM goes.

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[mcbush]

I mean, would a 6-900 hour copilot do worse in fighters than a new guy straight from UPT? Honest question since I could see a couple of pros and a couple of cons.

[Fuzz]

1 hour ago, Kenny Powers said:

Not to bring up our favorite dick measuring topic, but...

If their community has not upgraded them to AC, why would you throw them in a fighter where they're going to be the AC?

Admittedly, I don't know anything about what it's like to be a co-pilot or anything about heavies as far as CRM goes.

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I was thinking less about guys that aren't going to be upgraded (which very rarely happens in in my experience) and I also doubt those people would get pushed by their WG/CC for such a program.

More so it was about making a pilot that's 2+ years into their MWS development and investment by their unit the only one eligible versus younger copilots that aren't at far along in their upgrade or career.

[Duck]

AMC and no Q2s or Q3s? Well there goes like 96% of the MAF... lol

[Kenny Powers]

I was thinking less about guys that aren't going to be upgraded (which very rarely happens in in my experience) and I also doubt those people would get pushed by their WG/CC for such a program.

More so it was about making a pilot that's 2+ years into their MWS development and investment by their unit the only one eligible versus younger copilots that aren't at far along in their upgrade or career.

 

 

Yeah, I was referring to people who just weren't ready for AC upgrade, due to time or hours or whatever other requirements you might need.

 

It does sound dumb to take a guy who is experienced enough in his MWS to be AC, then throw him into a new MWS where he's going to be on par with the new LTs out of the B-course (from a tactical standpoint.)

 

Spoiler alert, to get good in a fighter (like anything else for that matter) takes studying the tactics and weapons, going out, flying it, messing something up, and then doing it over and over and over. It takes TIME! Except for me, I never screw up and always get it right the first time.

 

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