Changing/Switching airframes

[Orbit]

7 hours ago, BashiChuni said:

Yes. The reg contradicts itself. Standard. But guys have gotten it waived down to 2 year PCS commitment 

https://static.e-publishing.af.mil/production/1/af_a1/publication/afi36-2107/afi36-2107.pdf

Quote

16 Advanced Flying Training (AFT): courses in the following categories: - Initial qualification (any fixed, rotary wing aircraft, or unmanned aerial system) - Requalification (any fixed, rotary wing aircraft, or unmanned aerial system) - AETC Pilot Instructor Training (PIT) (NOTE: Pilots who cross-train without a break in flying between AETC non-Major Weapons System aircraft, after completing initial training do not incur any additional commitment.)

3 years (see notes 1, 2, 10, 14, 15, and 20)

NOTES: 1. The following provisions apply:

b. All manned or unmanned pilots, navigators, and air battle managers who began aviation service after 30 September 1997 will not incur any additional Advanced Flying Training (AFT)/Instructor Qualification ADSCs which extend beyond 6 or 10 years as applicable, of continuous or cumulative rated service. Rated service begins at the completion of training and awarding of wings for the rated specialty. They will still incur Permanent Change of Station (PCS), Professional Military Education (PME), and other non-AFT related ADSCs.

So I've heard that as long as you are under your UPT ADSC then it is only a 2 year PCS commitment.  What do you mean that it needs to be waived?  Anyone have first hand experience?  

[BashiChuni]

Negative. You do not have to be under 10 year adsc. I’m personally working my own case this month and will report results back, and only know tO do this cause my buddy got his waived. 

I guess not waived but extra year removed

Edited May 9, 2018 by BashiChuni

[Motofalcon]

This was discussed over in the adsc thread, but short answer: you gotta watch out for note 1c, because it says that an initial qual in a new airframe (like the one you would get when cross flowing to your new MDS) will cost you the full 3 year adsc, even if it goes past your initial UPT ten year commitment. 

Yes, note 1b and 1c directly contradict themselves, but when I brought that up to afpc, they stuck with 1c and I picked up an extra year when I got my T-38 initial qual. But it sounds like others have gotten it waived or reduced, so ymmv.  Hope for the best (no extra adsc) but prepare yourself for the worst (full 3 year adsc for a form 8 that says "INIT QUAL" on it). 

[pilotguy]

They are giving me the 1c argument as well. Anyone else had success keeping that extra year off?

[Seriously]

On 5/8/2018 at 11:51 PM, Duck said:

And I completely understand you calling it as you see it with your massive military aviation experience.

As a PIT IP, I have been surprised by how terrible a large number of AF pilots are regardless of airframe.

What airframe do you teach on? If it's the T-6, I doubt you're seeing many fighter guys come through other than the occasional senior officer who has 50 hours in the last 5 years. 

Edited May 11, 2018 by Seriously

[Duck]

What airframe do you teach on? If it's the T-6, I doubt you're seeing many fighter guys come through other than the occasional senior officer who has 50 hours in the last 5 years. 

T-6s and although you are right about Active Duty, there have been tons of reservists who have just left fighters. For what it’s worth I left PIT over a year ago.

[B.L]

T-6s and although you are right about Active Duty, there have been tons of reservists who have just left fighters. For what it’s worth I left PIT over a year ago.

Not much has changed since you left.

[GoodSplash9]

So I'm a T-1 UPT dude that dropped RPAs and I've been doing that for over 6 years now. I've really enjoyed the mission and I re-categorized a few years ago. With that being said, due to a number of recent reasons I've decided to try and pursue any active duty deployment or 3-4 year tour flying any manned airframe that will take me (rather than staff, working for a general, and standard box checking). I've got a really strong performance record, a lot of IP/FE experience in RPAs, FTU experience, and I've remotely destroyed a lot of stuff of doing CAS/DT (so far, these haven't counted for much).

Right now, I'm working every angle I have to try and score a gig teaching T-1s or T-6s (requires a waiver due to not having 100 AC hours, but its been done). I'm also trying to sell my base leadership and ACC on taking a gamble and letting me be a co-pilot in the E-11. If both of these options fail, I see IFS or teaching fixed wing planes at the Academy as the last options I know about. Spec Ops Fighter Pilot and Spec Ops Fighter Pilot flying the A-29 were both ruled out today. I'm looking for other ideas/options I haven't considered on the active duty side. And thanks to the bros who have already passed gouge my way. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by GoodSplash9
Poor word choice...reference below comment.

[MooseAg03]

I've remotely blown a lot of stuff

Sorry, couldn’t help it.

As another RPA returnee to manned, I wish you the best of luck. You are in a different situation since you were UPT direct and don’t have a MWS to return to. I do remember seeing white jets as an option for 11Us on the AFPC assignment slides, and if they are hurting like they say that’s probably your best bet.

[Danger41]

Just to make sure I’m tracking the nomenclature, you changed your AFSC from 11 to 18, right? Pitching in from the cheap seats, I would imagine your odds are pretty low of flying manned aircraft. If that’s the case, you’re now in that column on the spreadsheet and not the pilot one. 

Also (unsolicited advice), do you really think it makes sense to take you to a UPT base after six years of zero flying and put you in charge of students? I don’t think that makes much sense in terms of safety.

I appreciate you wanting to fly manned and I wish you the best, but temper your expectations. Best of luck!

[GoodSplash9]

3 hours ago, Danger41 said:

Just to make sure I’m tracking the nomenclature, you changed your AFSC from 11 to 18, right? Pitching in from the cheap seats, I would imagine your odds are pretty low of flying manned aircraft. If that’s the case, you’re now in that column on the spreadsheet and not the pilot one. 

Also (unsolicited advice), do you really think it makes sense to take you to a UPT base after six years of zero flying and put you in charge of students? I don’t think that makes much sense in terms of safety.

I appreciate you wanting to fly manned and I wish you the best, but temper your expectations. Best of luck!

That's all fair...Right now, it seems like the Air Force needs every single pilot they have. I guess my honest question would be do the standards at PIT let unsafe IPs graduate and go teach at UPT? I know FAIPs are really current in their airframe, but they don't exactly have a wealth of judgement, decision making, or instructional skills when they show up to PIT in general. FYSA, there have been at least 2 dudes in my situation that went on to teach T-6s and did really well (they were around the 4-5 year mark).

With that being said, I appreciate your frank answer. I'm really motivated to do this, so I'm going to press until the doors are all shut. If that happens, flying Guard units will likely be the next endeavor.

[BashiChuni]

I think white jets are certainly possible, safe, and reasonable for you. There’s a RPA guy who just graduated UPT, IFF, and going f22s. 

Current PIT student dude who just left MQ-9s doing fine (he was prior MWS though and never 18x)

anythings possible especially when big blue is getting more desperate. I’d keep pressing to test. 

Hell they just sent a lot of casual 18x LTs direct to start UPT next month instead of RPA pipeline. 

Edited May 13, 2018 by BashiChuni

[viper154]

On 5/11/2018 at 9:43 PM, GoodSplash9 said:

So I'm a T-1 UPT dude that dropped RPAs and I've been doing that for over 6 years now. I've really enjoyed the mission and I re-categorized a few years ago. With that being said, due to a number of recent reasons I've decided to try and pursue any active duty deployment or 3-4 year tour flying any manned airframe that will take me (rather than staff, working for a general, and standard box checking). I've got a really strong performance record, a lot of IP/FE experience in RPAs, FTU experience, and I've remotely destroyed a lot of stuff of doing CAS/DT (so far, these haven't counted for much).

Right now, I'm working every angle I have to try and score a gig teaching T-1s or T-6s (requires a waiver due to not having 100 AC hours, but its been done). I'm also trying to sell my base leadership and ACC on taking a gamble and letting me be a co-pilot in the E-11. If both of these options fail, I see IFS or teaching fixed wing planes at the Academy as the last options I know about. Spec Ops Fighter Pilot and Spec Ops Fighter Pilot flying the A-29 were both ruled out today. I'm looking for other ideas/options I haven't considered on the active duty side. And thanks to the bros who have already passed gouge my way. 

We just had two bros get T-6 and T-1 waivers/instructor slots, they were A tour dudes who didn’t recat though, and only been out of manned for 3 ish years. I’m a UPT-D dude from the 2015 round, just got my drop sheet for my new assignment, expecting a return to manned at the end of the year. They denied waivers for 3 of the latest UPT D guys to recat. We are all getting forced back. 

Dont give up hope brother. 

[BFM this]

Met lots of “recats” who were either unsure how they had been recatted or felt they had been sold a bill of goods.

Will be decades before the TAMI hangover is gone.

[ARAMP1]

On 5/8/2018 at 9:51 AM, Duck said:

As a PIT IP, I have been surprised by how terrible a large number of AF pilots are regardless of airframe.

After doing a tour at the Navy's T6 FITU (their version of PIT) I always said "What's easier, a student fam 1 ride or an instructor fam 1 ride?   ...the student fam 1, because he'll study."

 

[ShavedDogsAss]

23 hours ago, viper154 said:

We just had two bros get T-6 and T-1 waivers/instructor slots, they were A tour dudes who didn’t recat though, and only been out of manned for 3 ish years. I’m a UPT-D dude from the 2015 round, just got my drop sheet for my new assignment, expecting a return to manned at the end of the year. They denied waivers for 3 of the latest UPT D guys to recat. We are all getting forced back. 

Dont give up hope brother. 

2.

I was out of the jet for way longer than 3 years before the start of PIT.  It wasn't all smooth sailing, but even old dudes can catch up.

It took many years, and a LOT of underhanded threats/ultimatums from AFPC, but I refused to ever re-cat.  Haven't regretted it once.

[Harambe]

Whatever happened to those C-17 MAF to CAF guys?

[nunya]

12 hours ago, Harambe said:

Whatever happened to those C-17 MAF to CAF guys?

They're at Delta with everyone else.

[Day Man]

20 hours ago, Harambe said:

Whatever happened to those C-17 MAF to CAF guys?

Some say they're still at the wrong airport with the gear up and 4 engines FODded out.  

[Harambe]

49 minutes ago, The TRON said:

I think one or two of them are done with IFF now.

I’m assuming they had to do a T-38 spin up course? Were these captains?

[Switch408]

50 minutes ago, Harambe said:

I’m assuming they had to do a T-38 spin up course? Were these captains?

One of them was a T-38 IP at the time he was selected for crossflow. The other MAF guy went through a T-38 spin up. One was a Maj select and the other had already pinned on. 

[Harambe]

 Very interesting. Do people think these cross flows will continue, or was this just a one off thing?

[FourFans]

8 hours ago, Day Man said:

Some say they're still at the wrong airport with the gear up and 4 engines FODded out.  

The Stig does not approve of being associate with those clowns.

[norskman]

Legitimately asking for a friend, does anybody know any possibilities for a helo driver to get a fixed wing assignment (besides T-6s) before he gets out to be more marketable for the airlines?   

Edited May 25, 2018 by norskman

[Breckey]

The functional isn’t releasing anybody to any non-RW platform except for T-6s. Unless you can snag an embassy gig flying C-12s the RW-regional transition is really all you got.