Changing/Switching airframes

[Guest mexico]

Hey, I am currently a herc guy looking into other units since my current one is closing due to BRAC. I wanted to stay east and currently looking into 130 units out there. However, is it possible to get picked up by another unit flying heavies besides 130's? I'd like to stay in the 130 community but maybe consider C-17's as well if it's possible and wondering how full up on pilots McGuire and Charleston are. How is the life as a reserve C17 dude? I know in the herc world we have been somewhat busy which has been good for bumming. Also how's the living/job market in those two areas? Can you make it just as a bum? Any info would be great!

[Guest AirGuardian]

It is possible to get picked by another unit with a different airframe. It's a unit specific thing so it is a good idea to visit as many as you can to declare your case... Rank may be an issue as well depending upon unit vacancy. Slots are normally geared up to major without any problem, but if the unit is Major heavy then they most likely will not consider outside O-4s... Especially those without a great amount of experience in the airframe they fly. Capts and below are easier to absorb. Bumming should be relatively the same as you've experienced except for duration, flying time and location of course. Many locations are the same, but some units are able to work better deals than others.

Lt married with kids during bumming times is challenging but doable. Capt wise it's much, much easier. Major is rather comfortable, etc, etc.

Maybe a Chucktown guy can chime in, but the real estate marked over there has climbed like crazy!

New Jersy?

Many times it's all about your own lifestyle. If you don't moniter your cash outflow very well, you will suffer... Hawaii must be a challenge at most pay grades regardless...

Nothing is better than activation if you're a struggling Guard Bum and $$$ is needed. Hard on the family, but sometimes lack of $$$ is more!

How about the March Reserve unit in Cali. They just took over part of our mission and they might need a little help. Granted, we took it from Wright Patt originally, but they're going thru conversion anyway! It's a good deal, trust me - we just ended that part of it!

McGuire may be up for a partial/full activation sometime soon if not already mobilized.... Chucktown may have been already mobilized twice like us, but I'm sure they'll keep on working with quite a few of volunteers holding steadfast!

Goodluck/Godspeed - 17s are busy as well so now is a good time... a couple of years from now with a new CNC may dictate otherwise!

[ 24. May 2006, 00:43: Message edited by: AirGuardian ]

[scoobs]

Hey AG what kind of trips is your unit getting?

[Guest pjc2002]

Anybody know how hard it is to switch from an AD heavy to a Guard fighter airframe? Love my airframe now, but it might be fun to switch it up a few years down the road.

[Guest Hydro130]

Originally posted by HighlyAimed:

Anybody know how hard it is to switch from an AD heavy to a Guard fighter airframe? Love my airframe now, but it might be fun to switch it up a few years down the road.

I know it has been done in the past, but I would imagine it would be tough these days. I knew an AD Herk dude (MN boy) who got out and went to fly for the Duluth vipers, but that was many years ago.

You would need a lot of planets to align to make such a thing happen, but there are no absolutes, and the answer is always "No" if you don't ask the question!

Cheers, Hydro

[Guest tollfree969]

How often do people switch airframes (i.e. C-130 to C-17, F-15E to A-10, etc. or even heavies to fighters and vice versa)? How do you do it and under what circumstances do people switch from airframe to airframe?

Thanks in advance...

[C17Driver]

How often do people switch airframes (i.e. C-130 to C-17, F-15E to A-10, etc. or even heavies to fighters and vice versa)? How do you do it and under what circumstances do people switch from airframe to airframe?

Thanks in advance...

Pilots in the C-17 community tend to cross-flow to tankers after going to school (ACSC) or participating in one of the Phoenix programs. The pilots we get from tankers tend to have done the same thing (flew tankers for a tour to two, then went to school, then came over to the C-17). Most of them go to or come from KC-135s. I've only met a handful of people that came from C-130s (mostly higher up types like group commanders) and a couple KC-10 types (squadron commander types).

[Toro]

The only pilots who I have seen leave the F-15E were to transition to the F-22 (mostly younger guys) or leadership types who went to command at other bases. A former Sq/CC of mine who went on to be an OG/CC went to DM to be the Wg/CC. He was a prior Hog guy.

We have a Track 1 transition course for guys coming from other fighters into the Strike Eagle, but I haven't seen anybody come through that in three years. I know of 6-9 dudes who came from Hogs to the Strike Eagle, and four who came from the C model, but they all came through their track 1 a long time ago. The only guys I've seen recently, as mentioned above, are senior leadership types. The former Shaw Wg/CC (Viper guy) came through a senior officer's course to be the Wg/CC at a downrange location with F-15Es.

[Guest Boom]

Pilots in the C-17 community tend to cross-flow to tankers after going to school (ACSC) or participating in one of the Phoenix programs. The pilots we get from tankers tend to have done the same thing (flew tankers for a tour to two, then went to school, then came over to the C-17). Most of them go to or come from KC-135s. I've only met a handful of people that came from C-130s (mostly higher up types like group commanders) and a couple KC-10 types (squadron commander types).

Guy I know went from C-130's to C-17's at Chucktown. The requirement he told me was in the Herk you had to be a AC, if you were a IP you were pretty much locked into the Herk.

[HerkDerka]

The requirement he told me was in the Herk you had to be a AC, if you were a IP you were pretty much locked into the Herk.

Kind of. Once you hit IP in the Herk, they're not going to release you to a white jet. But the Phoenix Crossflow program requires IP experience.

HD

[Guest Boom]

Kind of. Once you hit IP in the Herk, they're not going to release you to a white jet. But the Phoenix Crossflow program requires IP experience.

HD

No it doesn't. My friend that did a Phoenix program was just an AC. Never went to IP school. We have a prior C-17 guy here who was just an AC and crossflowed to the 135.

[HerkDerka]

No it doesn't. My friend that did a Phoenix program was just an AC. Never went to IP school. We have a prior C-17 guy here who was just an AC and crossflowed to the 135.

Was it Phoenix Crossflow that your friend went throught, or another Phoenix program?

Was the C-17 guy a Phoenix Crossflow guy?

HD

[Guest Boom]

Was it Phoenix Crossflow that your friend went throught, or another Phoenix program?

Was the C-17 guy a Phoenix Crossflow guy?

HD

It was the Phoenix crossflow that the 130 guy did, dunno about the C-17 guy.

[TacAirCoug]

Google is a beautiful thing. Here are the eligibility requirements for rated and non-rated PHOENIX applicants. BL, IP desired, not required:

Eligible nominees:

a. Captains with 6 to 9 years TAFCS

b. Rated or line support officers assigned within AMC; rated air mobility officers currently serving outside of AMC are also eligible

c. MWS instructor rating desired for rated (highly recommended)

d. Completed SOS in-residence prior to HAWK assignment (mandatory)

e. Minimum 2 years TOS by HAWK assignment as of the reporting year

f. Are strong volunteers

[HerkDerka]

That's definitely the first instance I've heard of someone going to a Phoenix program without being an IP.

HD

[tac airlifter]

That's definitely the first instance I've heard of someone going to a Phoenix program without being an IP.

HD

i have also never seen or heard someone doing phoenix out of the herk who was not an IP. and i have never heard of someone leaving the herk for any fighter track. from 130s you can get into other heavies through phoenix or go afsoc or white jets; those are the only ways to change airframes while staying active duty.

[HercDude]

from 130s you can get into other heavies through phoenix or go afsoc or white jets; those are the only ways to change airframes while staying active duty.

Not true.

Before I left Pope we had tagged 2 copilots, oh excuse me, MPDs . . . to go to C-17s at Dover (no Pheonix program). I know 2 guys who went to C-21s. A chick went over to Korea to fly C-12s, but don't know if they'll require her to come back to Hercs or not. A dude went to the 89th to fly Gulfstreams and we sent a girl to Ramstien to do the same.

We sent an engineer to the CV-22, but as far as I know none of the pilots asking for that got it.

Doing a tour in white jets or UAVs seems like the easiest and most likely way to transfer airframes in AMC. My guess is AFPC doesn't care as much because either way they have to send you back to a schoolhouse, so what's the difference if you go back to Little Rock, or you go to a new one at Altus.

[Guest Boom]

so what's the difference if you go back to Little Rock, or you go to a new one at Altus.

Having been stationed at Little Rock and done school at Altus I can say there's a BIG difference.

[amcflyboy]

Not true.

Before I left Pope we had tagged 2 copilots, oh excuse me, MPDs . . . to go to C-17s at Dover (no Pheonix program)

That's ok, I was the first in my unit to complete the MPD program at the Rock, and I'm still proud to be called a gear swinging retard!!

[tac airlifter]

Not true.

Before I left Pope we had tagged 2 copilots, oh excuse me, MPDs . . . to go to C-17s at Dover (no Pheonix program). I know 2 guys who went to C-21s. A chick went over to Korea to fly C-12s, but don't know if they'll require her to come back to Hercs or not. A dude went to the 89th to fly Gulfstreams and we sent a girl to Ramstien to do the same.

We sent an engineer to the CV-22, but as far as I know none of the pilots asking for that got it.

Doing a tour in white jets or UAVs seems like the easiest and most likely way to transfer airframes in AMC. My guess is AFPC doesn't care as much because either way they have to send you back to a schoolhouse, so what's the difference if you go back to Little Rock, or you go to a new one at Altus.

you're right man, i forgot entirely about the C12 option. and i also knew a few copilots in alaska that were sent to C17s recently when they took over for no reason other than being in the right place at the right time. i know there are weird things that pop up every now and then, but for the most part phoenix is the primary means of switching airframes without leaving the MAJCOM. and you're also right that UAVs leave many options open for follow on. we'll see how it works out for those people counting on a UAV slot to give them J models to ramstein in 3 years. and i also neglected to mention the 89th for you senior IP types.

Edited October 9, 2007 by tac airlifter

[HuggyU2]

How often do people switch airframes (i.e. C-130 to C-17, F-15E to A-10, etc. or even heavies to fighters and vice versa)? How do you do it and under what circumstances do people switch from airframe to airframe?

Every single pilot in the U-2 came from another airframe, but you probably knew that. Here's the backgrounds of the ~80 pilots we currently have in the U-2:

C-130 (including Coast Guard), EC-130, AC-130, C-17, C-5, C-21, C-12, KC-135, RC-135, B-52, B-1, F-14, F-15, F-15E, F-16, F-18 (Navy and Marine), FB-111, A-7, AV-8B, A-10, S-3, EA-6B, F-117, UH-1, MH-53, SH-60, CH-46, AH-1, T-34, T-45, T-37, T-6, T-38, T-3, USAF TPS grads, about a dozen with airline experience.

and i have never heard of someone leaving the herk for any fighter track.

I'm 99.9% sure that Thunderbird 7 came out of the C-130 community. https://www.thunderbirds.acc.af.mil/07OfficerHTMS/7.htm

Edited October 11, 2007 by Huggyu2

[Bluto]

Every single pilot in the U-2 came from another airframe, but you probably knew that. Here's the backgrounds of the ~80 pilots we currently have in the U-2:

C-130 (including Coast Guard), EC-130, AC-130, C-17, C-5, C-21, C-12, KC-135, RC-135, B-52, B-1, F-14, F-15, F-15E, F-16, F-18 (Navy and Marine), FB-111, A-7, AV-8B, A-10, S-3, EA-6B, F-117, UH-1, MH-53, SH-60, CH-46, AH-1, T-34, T-45, T-37, T-6, T-38, T-3, USAF TPS grads, about a dozen with airline experience.

I'm 99.9% sure that Thunderbird 7 came out of the C-130 community. https://www.thunderbirds.acc.af.mil/07OfficerHTMS/7.htm

So no B-2 guys? Maybe one soon.

[Aggie Pilot]

Howdy, been looking about signing up for a long time. I've talked to reserve units and such but haven't taken the plung yet. I've been looking at active as well and had a few questions.

First and probably most pressing to me is I really would like to get a pavehawk slot, although I know they are few and far between and the chances of it even being on the list after UPT is slim to none. If I couldn't get that what are the chances of transferring airframes in and which would be the best route for that major or a switch (fixed -> rotorcraft).

What's the procedure and how long does it take to even have the chance to transfer airframes anyway?

Thanks,

[Tonka]

Howdy, been looking about signing up for a long time. I've talked to reserve units and such but haven't taken the plung yet. I've been looking at active as well and had a few questions. First and probably most pressing to me is I really would like to get a pavehawk slot, although I know they are few and far between and the chances of it even being on the list after UPT is slim to none. If I couldn't get that what are the chances of transferring airframes in and which would be the best route for that major or a switch (fixed -> rotorcraft). What's the procedure and how long does it take to even have the chance to transfer airframes anyway? Thanks,

If you want to fly Pave Hawks then you will already be in "rotorcraft" when the decision is made as to what airframe you will fly, so you wouldn't transfer to "rotorcraft" if you weren't selected for a Pave Hawk. Regardless, switching between the 2 is statistically possible but highly unlikely unless you went to V-22s.

First choose to be an military officer, then consider being a pilot, and then when/if that choice arises choose between those 2 paths.

If only there was a forum titled "What Are My Chances?" If only they would make it easier for you to find it under the "Road to Wings" section. If only there was search function to help me find the answers to my questions. Are you still using dial-up or did you trade in your $1000 boots for a couple months of DSL?

I suggest you take some time and think about your next posts very carefully.

[Aggie Pilot]

Well since I was not in the corp at A&M and am on the road all the time for work and do most of my spare time searching via phone kinda makes it hard to search around. Especially when your working 80hrs a week between three jobs. Just wondering what happen to respect for others now as well.