UPT cross countries

[Guest Dirt Beater]

At UPT, how often can studs either plan cross-countries to other UPT bases (to see buddies or something) or to bases near their families or something?

[C17Driver]

When I was at Vance I was specifically told not to plan my XC to other UPT bases. The biggest reason they gave was due to the lack of training you get there.. Would probably have to do one to a full stop.

On a side note, the guys from Corpus would always come up to Vance...Go figure.

[JS]

In general, studs get one weekend-long type cross country in Tweets and one in T-1's. Not sure about the 38's, but I am pretty sure they only do one long cross country too. This is really all the syllabus has room for.

Ditto what C17 said about going to other UPT bases. It is kind of a pain because they really don't want other AF jets there too much because there is so much traffic already (plus most IP's will avoid other UPT bases like the Plague) and help is limited.

As far as flying near your family, etc. If it is in range, you can do it. Tweets are kind of limited due to fuel, but T-1's can go pretty far for the long XC. From Columbus we had guys go to Colordo, Illinois, Charleston, and Miami to name a few. Most of these places were chosen because of friends/families being nearby.

[Toro]

With regards to going to a UPT base - I wouldn't so much be concerned about having to do one to a full-stop as I would be staying the weekend in a place that sucked. The non-written rule is "don't stop somewhere that you don't want to break." Granted, if you had a bunch of buds there, it might be cool, but unless your IP does also, you're kind of hosed. From Columbus we'd usually go to places like Tyndall, Eglin, Oceana, Charleston, MacDill, or New Orleans.

T-38s only do one cross country. Sometimes you luck out and don't have to fly Saturday (if they're ahead on the timeline), which means you can push it up on the town Friday night.

Ditto what JS said about visiting the family. I had numerous students who planned XCs to bases near their family, and I flew into MacDill 6-9 times to see my mom (lives in Tampa).

[ 17. November 2004, 04:27: Message edited by: Toro ]

[flynhigh]

Do XC stops need to be at AF bases, or can you fly into a public airport?

[Flare]

Originally posted by Toro:

Sometimes you luck out and don't have to fly Saturday (if they're ahead on the timeline), which means you can push it up on the town Friday night.

Here's my sales pitch for ENJJPT (does it need one?) Unless we're VERY far behind the timeline, we never fly on Sat during our x/c......in 37s or 38s...and the same about going to see family. I flew out-and-back in both 37s and 38s to eat lunch with my parents in one flight and my grandma in the other...good times!

[Flare]

Originally posted by flynhigh:

Do XC stops need to be at AF bases, or can you fly into a public airport?

Gas-n-go's are no problem. For an overnight stop, there's a couple of factors you have to look at. 1)the FBO/airport must be secure enough to hold the jets...this entails some type of security, fences around the airport, and maybe even something else.....AETC puts out a website with a list of approved RON(Remain OverNight) sites. 2)You have to go somewhere where they have government billeting unless the squadron approves otherwise...usually they don't (at least for us). You can combine the 2 however.....for example we often go fly in Lakefront in New Orleans (a civil field), park the jets there and then drive over to a NSA New Orleans for billeting.

[Rocker]

At Laughlin (for T-6s anyway), there's a map up by the Supe's desk with limits on how far student cross countries can go. From here, the farthest east we can go is Pensacola, then the line kind of goes north and east up through Montgomery, AL and northern Mississippi, then around Oklahoma City, across Lubbock, down through Canon AFB, NM and around to El Paso. I did mine from here to College Station, was supposed to go to Ft. Worth Alliance but "broke down" that night (burned out landing light), so we flew to San Angelo the next afternoon to trade jets with a CT crew (IPs) and then sky hooked it to Keesler that night (and still showed up with almost 600# of gas). We then went to Ellington the next day and got weathered for two days before heading back to Del Rio. If you have to get stuck somewhere, Ellington (Houston) is a great place for that. Breaking down in College Station was pretty convenient.

[Guest IGB]

If you can work out your XC stops to coincide with sporting events (i.e. Scott during a Cards or Blues game) can make it interesting. In T-1s we tried to catch a pro ball game where ever we stopped.

BTW- in the t06 what's the max fuel load and what's min landing fuel? 600# means a lot of things to different air frames....

[JS]

Originally posted by flynhigh:

Do XC stops need to be at AF bases, or can you fly into a public airport?

Funny you should ask that. In Tweets, we were allowed to RON at any airport that was on the AETC list of RON bases and we just got hotel rooms. In T-1's there is a policy that studs will only RON at military bases where military housing is available. I am not sure if this is just a policy for our T-1 squadron or if it came down from our wing or higher. All I know is that your choices of remaining overnight are kind of limited - and they get more limited when you wait until the last minute to try and get rooms at billeting and they are all full. You then have to RON at some other base.

At least those are the rules here in T-1's at CBM.

[JS]

If you were just asking about "stopping" at civilian airports to get gas and not remain overnight, then all you need is a DOD fuel contract at the airport. There are tons of airports that have fuel contracts, so that usually isn't an issue. It is the remaining over night that can be an issue.

[flynhigh]

I was curious about both. Although it sounds like my hometown will be way too far from Laughlin (LaCrosse, WI). Oh well, maybe Vegas is close enough?

[ 17. November 2004, 15:00: Message edited by: flynhigh ]

[JS]

Originally posted by flynhigh:

I was curious about both. Although it sounds like my hometown will be way too far from Laughlin (LaCrosse, WI). Oh well, maybe Vegas is close enough?

I don't know where LaCrosse is, but from XL direct to Milwaukee (MKE), it is a little more than 1000 miles according to my magic 8-ball, which is definitely possible for a T-1 cross country in two legs. Not possible for a Tweet, though.

[Rocker]

Originally posted by IGB:

BTW- in the t06 what's the max fuel load and what's min landing fuel? 600# means a lot of things to different air frames....

It's 1200# over the wing, 1100# single point. We had it fueled over the wing (for insurance), reworked W&B, took off, hit "KBIX, direct, enter" and flew the blue line the whole way there at FL250. Winds were in our favor and I don't remember how long it took, but it was almost 600 miles. Due to my combat flight planning, I didn't nail down every detail, but we were both pretty surprised to have that much fuel left.

[Flare]

Originally posted by Rocker:

It's 1200# over the wing, 1100# single point.

Out of curiosity, what is min and emergency fuel in the T-6?

[Rocker]

Min fuel dual is 150# (200 solo), and emergency is 100.

[Guest IGB]

What's your average sortie duration based on max bags?

[Rocker]

Max bags? Not familiar with the term... If you mean luggage in the luggage compartment, that doesn't really affect sortie duration. We usually fly a 1.3-5 here on a daily ride, carry about 3+00 hours of gas, and the longest leg I flew on a XC was a 2.1 (and got both mission complete lights right before the full stop).