Flying Scarf/Scarves

[Champ Kind]

An emergency order is being processed and we should have adequate supplies for all OG members in two to three weeks.

Am I the only one that read this part?

Just wow.

And people wonder why the Marines and Army give the USAF shit.

[Toro]

This remins me of Gen Handy's uniform guidance years ago. Anyone who worked at the Group or Wing was told to wear blues to work unless you were flying. They tried their best to get everynone to comply to no avail. Leadership quit trying after three days.

We got the same thing at Lakenheath while Dic Fogels...I mean "He who shall not be mentioned" was USAFE/CC. Our Sq/CC thought it was BS and told the schedulers to put all aircrew who weren't scheduled to fly on 'standby' to fly and therefore they would need to wear their flight suits. Our sister squadron's DO - not do be outdone as the biggest douchebag - suggested via mass email to both squadrons that even if we were on standby we should were our blues, bring our flight suits, and "look for the nearest phone booth for a Superman transformation!"

Scarves

[brickhistory]

Our sister squadron's DO - not do be outdone as the biggest douchebag

I bet the guy's been promoted at least twice since?

[Guest Fogo]

Related to the sleeves rolled and priorities issue...

Ops group training day for my un-named wing yesterday. OG/CC leads off with his comments, saying today he's here to talk about leadership. With all seriousness, he tells us "If I am walking around with my sleeves rolled up, I expect someone to tell me I am out of regs. Same thing with a cell phone. If I am walking around with my phone clipped to the wrong side, I expect to be corrected. That's just good leadership."

You could have heard a pin drop. When he started talking again the guy next to me leans over and says "Correct side for the phone? How bout in your fvcking pocket." Now this guy is new and I am sure just trying to show he is in charge. From everything I've heard he is a good dude, good leader, knows his stuff, and I have no reason to not agree. But later that day he came into the squadron a couple of times just to see if someone called the area to attention.

You'd be hard pressed to explain to me why this stuff matters. Are there situations where your sleeves should be done b/c it looks more professional or crap like that, sure. Should you render proper courtesies to your superiors? Of course. But really, why does this stuff matter? If someone is in the sq. getting the job done, but just wants their sleeves rolled up, or their phone on the "wrong side" is it affecting the job. I'm without words sometimes.

[Alpharatz]

Any senior officer who precipitates, causes to be made, writes up, etc. an "emergency scarf order" should be instantly FIRED and given a real job working the drive up at Donald's where they belong.

This story is second hand......had an old timer boom who was generally in a bad mood at the best of times standing in line at the Offutt BX buying smokes.....approached by some Major who spouts "Sergeant, where is your dickey?" Boom slowly averts gaze downwards over gut and looks at his crotch. Major squeeks mightily but figured he didn't have enough horsepower to summarily arrest the particularly surly looking crew dog....goes scurrying off to find the Air Police. Emergency "scarf crew round up order" put in effect and hasty departure accomplished...

"Dammit Gridley............listen up!!!!"

[Herk Driver]

3. ALL PERSONNEL ARE REMINDED THAT WE ARE IN A MULTI-YEAR TRANSITION FROM THE BDU/DCU TO THE ABU. FLEXIBILITY ON THE PART OF ALL PERSONNEL WILL ALLOW CONTINUED FOCUS ON OUTFITTING WARFIGHTERS, WHILE OTHER DISTRIBUTION PLAN DYNAMICS ARE PUT IN PLACE. THESE INCLUDE INITIAL ISSUE OF THE ABU TO BASIC MILITARY TRAINEES AND LIMITED AVAILABILITY IN AAFES OUTLETS.

6. ABU SAGE GREEN BOOTS ARE AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR WITH ALL UTILITY UNIFORMS - ABU, BDU, DCU, OLIVE DRAB (OD) GREEN FLIGHT SUIT AND DESERT TAN FLIGHT SUIT. DESERT TAN BOOTS ARE ALSO AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR WITH THE ABU,UNTIL THE MANDATORY WEAR DATE OF NOV 2011.

Thanks for doing your part to remain flexible and not require folks to spend a lot of money that they don't need to.

[FourFans]

Scarves are stupid...but if they want to say "be in uniform", they can. Until they change the reg to say the scarf is not a part of the uniform, they have that right. I'll buy that (i'll just choose to be out of uniform and accept the consequence when I get hammered for it). But I'm in the military, and, when I need to, I can shut up and color...that's what militaries are supposed to do best.

However this is what concerned me the most about that whole thing:

Each of your commanders have expressed concern about the potential financial impact of asking members to buy new T-shirts to be in compliance with this more restrictive wing policy. I have acknowledged their concern; however, my expectation is by Monday all ### OG members on station will be in compliance.

Translated: I hear you but I don't care. Me looking good in front of my superiors is more important than enabling my people and setting them up for success not failure. If they can't afford it, well that's their problem. I hear your concern but I don't give a shit. Look out for me and do what I tell you to because I out-rank you and you have to obey me...so do it.

Any Baseops senior leadership lurkers please hear this loud and clear:

HORRIBLE LEADERSHIP IS 100% OF WHAT IS WRONG IN THE AIR FORCE TODAY!

I couldn't give two shits if the paperwork is done right. Honestly...it's paperwork, it'll get done right eventually. Give me a Sq/CC and Gp/CC and a Wg/CC who is a leader.

Who can get in the jet and lead me into combat.

Who can inspire and lead from the front.

Who is willing to kick some teeth in to get the a Sq/Gp/Wg in shape and ready to do it's mission.

Who values quality over quantity...and is willing to fire douchbags if they need to be fired.

Who understands that being in the military and flying airplanes is risky...and is willing to take some risks to make sure that our military is the best prepared on the planet.

Most importantly, give me leader who knows that people are what make the US military amazing...not regs, not inspections, not equipment, not numbers, not networks, not cyberspace, no uniforms, not safety. People.

Please...give us a leaders. I can't take another douchbag manager.

FourFans

[Stiffler]

But later that day he came into the squadron a couple of times just to see if someone called the area to attention.

Thank GOD for the guard. I havent done this since pilot training.

[Hacker]

HORRIBLE LEADERSHIP IS 100% OF WHAT IS WRONG IN THE AIR FORCE TODAY!

I couldn't give two shits if the paperwork is done right. Honestly...it's paperwork, it'll get done right eventually. Give me a Sq/CC and Gp/CC and a Wg/CC who is a leader.

Who can get in the jet and lead me into combat.

Who can inspire and lead from the front.

Who is willing to kick some teeth in to get the a Sq/Gp/Wg in shape and ready to do it's mission.

Who values quality over quantity...and is willing to fire douchbags if they need to be fired.

Who understands that being in the military and flying airplanes is risky...and is willing to take some risks to make sure that our military is the best prepared on the planet.

Most importantly, give me leader who knows that people are what make the US military amazing...not regs, not inspections, not equipment, not numbers, not networks, not cyberspace, no uniforms, not safety. People.

Please...give us a leaders. I can't take another douchbag manager.

Needed to be quoted for posterity.

Great, great f*cking post.

[HerkDerka]

Well said FF.

HD

[ColoradoAviator]

3. ALL PERSONNEL ARE REMINDED THAT WE ARE IN A MULTI-YEAR TRANSITION FROM THE BDU/DCU TO THE ABU. FLEXIBILITY ON THE PART OF ALL PERSONNEL WILL ALLOW CONTINUED FOCUS ON OUTFITTING WARFIGHTERS, WHILE OTHER DISTRIBUTION PLAN DYNAMICS ARE PUT IN PLACE. THESE INCLUDE INITIAL ISSUE OF THE ABU TO BASIC MILITARY TRAINEES AND LIMITED AVAILABILITY IN AAFES OUTLETS.

6. ABU SAGE GREEN BOOTS ARE AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR WITH ALL UTILITY UNIFORMS - ABU, BDU, DCU, OLIVE DRAB (OD) GREEN FLIGHT SUIT AND DESERT TAN FLIGHT SUIT. DESERT TAN BOOTS ARE ALSO AUTHORIZED FOR WEAR WITH THE ABU,UNTIL THE MANDATORY WEAR DATE OF NOV 2011.

Thanks for doing your part to remain flexible and not require folks to spend a lot of money that they don't need to.

HD, would you mind providing the source for this information? I could use it the next time somebody gives me sh*t because I am wearing green boots with a green flight suit [aesthetics debate aside].

[Stiffler]

HD, would you mind providing the source for this information? I could use it the next time somebody gives me sh*t because I am wearing green boots with a green flight suit [aesthetics debate aside].

If you are wearing those boots with your flight suit as a choice, you are gay

[B*D*A]

No shit. He stopped a 4-ship brief mid-motherhood to tell the flight lead to please roll down his sleeves.

Wow dude. I didn't know there were forearm nazis on AD who weren't spacers.....awesome...just awesome.

[Herk Driver]

HD, would you mind providing the source for this information? I could use it the next time somebody gives me sh*t because I am wearing green boots with a green flight suit [aesthetics debate aside].

I can put it here if need be, but you can go to the AF Portal, use the search function (search: uniform), and the first link that appears will take you to a page full of uniform crap. On the left side, you will find Offical messages. Click on ABU Wear Policy message (Sep 07). I have the original somewhere that does not have the couple of edited/blacked out areas, but can't find it right now.

I'm surprised this guy didn't try to make the wear of the ABU mandatory or something.

[itsokimapilot]

HD, would you mind providing the source for this information? I could use it the next time somebody gives me sh*t because I am wearing green boots with a green flight suit [aesthetics debate aside].

I'm thinking they aren't giving you sh*t over a regulation. I agree with Stiffler,

[disgruntledemployee]

Don't bet on MG Scott taking our side. I asked him point blank many years ago on why I can't wear a tab that simple says, "C-130." His answer, "I don't like them and since I'm in charge, you won't wear them," or something close to those remarks. But then again, he didn't make the crew dogs wear scarves either.

Out

[bfargin]

Man, you guys are bumming me out. There were times when I was in that I thought we had some petty stupid rules but man the Spang and McGuire guys take the cake in the stupid petty rules category. I'd wear what I want and wait to see how hot it got. We used to wear Red/Green SAC patches during the month of December. Guard and other non-approved patches anytime we went TDY and sometimes when I was home station just for fun. On alert we had all kinds of (unofficial, rude and sometimes crude) patches we would wear for the week.

I wish the SQ CCs would man up as well and tell the boss he is full of crap (diplomatically of course).

Edited July 27, 2008 by bfargin

[ClearedHot]

Man, you guys are bumming me out. There were times when I was in that I thought we had some petty stupid rules but man the Spang and McGuire guys take the cake in the stupid petty rules category. I'd wear what I want and wait to see how hot it got. We used to wear Red/Green SAC patches during the month of December. Guard and other non-approved patches anytime we went TDY and sometimes when I was home station just for fun. On alert we had all kinds of (unofficial, rude and sometimes crude) patches we would wear for the week.

I wish the SQ CCs would man up as well and tell the boss he is full of crap (diplomatically of course).

Maybe they have...

[JarheadBoom]

1. It's amazing to me that I didn't hear about this officially (and I was just there Friday). I guess that's one of the bennies of being in "the other Wing" on the base.

2. I thought this was from the same person who was responsible for this... but I was wrong.

I feel bad for the AD guys & gals...

[Guest AlphaSigOU]

True. The guidance is that you can wear your Friday patches while in the Squadron, but must change your patches if you go to the BX, Commissary, post office, MPF (wait, we don't have one of those anymore), etc. His big pet peeve is pilots who roll up their sleeves and people who don't salute his car when he drives by. No shit. He stopped a 4-ship brief mid-motherhood to tell the flight lead to please roll down his sleeves. Then a couple weeks later he grounded a pilot whose flight suit was too "wrinkled." He stops anytime someone doesn't salute his car, and not only corrects them, but corrects ANY senior officer or NCO in the vicinity on why they didn't correct the junior. It's totally out of control.

My question to him is about all the ridiculously overweight Airmen strolling around base. If you're such a fanatic enforcer of uniform regs, what about all these Airmen with more rolls than a bakery??? Aren't they "out of uniform?"

Or a better question: Why is this the single focus of our leadership when they are so many other problems at Spang? Any number of people routinely screw the pooch on processing paperwork, missing appointments, lying, losing vital information, not having a clue how to do their job, or otherwise hindering the mission and making life here miserable. His one and only message since taking command is that they'll never hear a fvcking word about their job performance (or lack thereof) from him as long as they polish their boots and salute his car.

We don't have targeting pods. Our DOC statement is a complete joke. We can't upgrade dudes because of an insane lack of jets and IP's. Our maintenance needs 4+ hours to turn a jet. I would rather get repeatedly kicked in the junk than try to in or out-process this base. The exercises we put on here are a clown show; nearly 3/4 of the base doesn't even participate or know they're happening. I'm not CMR because I'm out of 9mm currency and the base is out of ammo. Ok, ok, KIO. I could go on forever. None of this matters. Everything will be ok as long as no one on base sees me wearing a nametag that says "HOSS" on it on Fridays.

Man, that sucks... Spang has returned to the days of 'Spang Quentin Federal Penitentiary'. I thought I left that over 20 years ago! The 'inmates' are about to riot...

<-- former 'Mosel Disposal' hash-slinger and 'Stalag 177' inhabitant.

[Crog]

The best question in this whole thread.....to paraphrase: "Why are they so fixated on this minor issue when so many other real problems exist?"

Simply, they are either unable or unwilling to address the real problems, make real changes, but instead choose to spin their wheels waiting for the next promotion, next assignment and praying every night that they can get through to the next PCS without a career ending incident.

For example, a new hard-charging OG takes over at a base I'll call "Zeromorale". Base "Z" has a 25% launch reliability, ~220+ days a year TDY rate (pre 9/11) and retains pilots past commitment about as well as a New Orleans levy holds water. He is out of his depth from Day 1, completely unqualified and unable to deal with the real problems. So, he defines the problem as: The crews are pusses/whiners! In fact, the problem is not enough tough love! Launch reliability falls, pilots punch to go work at Starbucks. The OG can't figure what happened and moves onto a retirement ceremony in which he admits his career was only possible because he sold his family out (presence of quasi-male teen with the multiple piercings in the front row at the ceremony confirms this.....).

Next problem solver arrives. He thinks that not only are the personnel of Base Zeromorale whiners, but completely undisciplined! He outlaws baseball hats in-flight, bans the use of camelbacks by MX folks who are slowly turning to leather fixing these deathtraps, and yes, makes scarf wear mandatory. He runs around in circles implementing one stupid policy after another. He keeps everyone off balance and off-focus on the real problems. Plus, this OG is better connected to like-thinkers higher up. In fact, they think this OG is the second-coming, and not just because they can see their reflection in his boots! He reports to them on all the very important problems he's fixing, they nod and accept politely. He moves on to bigger and better, but in reality continues as the running joke of the community.

How's that possible? In both cases neither OG reported that their Wing was anything other than C-1. Yep, 25-35% launch reliability for 3+ years and that Wing was (on paper) good-to-go!

The short answer is that no one above the jackass you're dealing with cares as long as they can deny they were aware of the real, "difficult to fix" problem. They just want to be able to say "Well, I was aware Col Z had a serious sleeve issue going on, but how was I to know they were fudging their bomb scores?!"

From my experience, the most ridiculous ideas (AFSO21, TQM, uniform changes, scarf/sleeves, "little books", "Combat Doc", etc...) usually coincide with the USAF at it's lowest. We're in a very expensive war, doing a poor job of redefining our mission, and if it wasn't for bad press wouldn't be in the news at all. The leadership responsible is generally ill-equipped to fix the problems and has to show how hard they are working to fix all the other "gross" issues. If we were on the upswing, the right leadership and focus wouldn't tolerate it such silliness.

I've had a couple of drinks, so I could be wrong.....

[Butters]

The short answer is that no one above the jackass you're dealing with cares as long as they can deny they were aware of the real, "difficult to fix" problem. They just want to be able to say "Well, I was aware Col Z had a serious sleeve issue going on, but how was I to know they were fudging their bomb scores?!"

Fudging numbers is what it is all about. A few years ago this transpired when a General came to visit our deployed location. I cannot say this Generals name so we will just call him "Dirt bag"

So, one of the young MX troops stands up during the Q&A portion of this little visit and says: "Hey, Dirt bag, why do base X, Y, and Z keep sending us every POS aircraft in their fleet. We are up night and day trying to get these things flying, every jet on that ramp has a write up sheet 100 pages long..."

Then Dirt bag says: "Son, I have know idea what you are talking about I a briefed daily on the MX reliability rate and it is over %90."

Young MX troop then has a bag placed over his head and is dragged outside by MX supervision and is never heard from again. I considered for a second standing up and saying: "Listen Dirt bag, you have no idea what is going on because the reliability numbers you are getting are fudged. Every time we show to a jet it is broken, and MX is trying to fix it. Since we show to the AC at XXXX prior to T/O they get it fixed and you never see that the plane had problems. You think everything is fine. Well, it is not. There is a reason we have names for every jet out there.... FU-62, Oh No - 60, Sick Thousand Six, No fly 85! Then to top it off every single time we send that POS Sick Thousand Six back home, it comes right back the next day, with the same shit wrong with it. Sir"

[Sneedro]

2. I thought this was from the same person who was responsible for this... but I was wrong.

Oh how I remember that email!! Thank you leadership, just when we though morale couldnt get any worse, you are there to show us how wrong we are!!

[sputnik]

So far I haven't been able to figure out who the OG is there. I did find the wing king....who I know from a lifetime ago and could maybe possibly almost see writing something like this. Though, to be honest, whatever else you can say about him he's too polished to ever directly put his name to something so moronic.

So, I guess you can't list names here, but can you at least give an official base link with to the McGuire OG?

By the way, congrats on Lakehurst ALZ (I'll take a link to that as well), I've been flying 11+ hour locals to hit an actual LZ, I can't believe ya'll scored one so close.

[Techsan]

Don't bet on MG Scott taking our side. I asked him point blank many years ago on why I can't wear a tab that simple says, "C-130." His answer, "I don't like them and since I'm in charge, you won't wear them," or something close to those remarks. But then again, he didn't make the crew dogs wear scarves either.

Out

The AMC/CC flys with our sq on a somewhat regular basis, and someone actually asked him about morale patches. More specifically, about wearing a patch like "C-130" or a picture of your jet. He actually said that he thought they were a good idea and went a step further to say that he would see what he could do to put that in writing.

...that was about 6 months ago, and we havent seen anything yet.