Fighter Aircrew Conditioning Test (FACT) info

[blake]

That's what we were told at the start of UPT. Evidently they are only now realizing this test has no bearing on how well you pull Gs. Typical AF.

Do you know what the new requirements are?

[mp5g]

Word is this test is being changed/done away with. Any truth to this?

It's different at every UPT base, from what I've been told. At CAFB, we are now doing a FACP, which is just an assessment. The assessment consists of 3-5 reps of your max deadlift weight, followed by a 5 minute plank, followed by two 300 meter sprints (down and back on a basketball court, w/ a 4 minute break in between each set).

Looks like we are the guinea pigs for a potential new test somewhere down the line. Again, this was at CAFB. Anywhere else and YMMV.

[blake]

I'll be at CAFB so that is just the info I was looking for!

[AZwildcat]

I think it would better to test a student's ability to sit there, STFU, and accept instruction and criticism with humility and not quibble. interrupt, and otherwise highlight themselves in a negative way.

[spaceman]

The assessment consists of 3-5 reps of your max deadlift weight, followed by a 5 minute plank, followed by two 300 meter sprints (down and back on a basketball court, w/ a 4 minute break in between each set).

5 minute plank?! That seems kind of hard. I've done it for like 2 minutes and I didn't think it was very easy! I'll have to see if I can do it for 5 minutes, just out of curiosity if anything.

[BQZip01]

It's different at every UPT base, from what I've been told.

Now people with minimal aerospace physiology training are coming up with random assessments...and it's inconsistent too...

At CAFB, we are now doing a FACP, which is just an assessment. The assessment consists of 3-5 reps of your max deadlift weight...

Uh...isn't that basically impossible? Your "max deadlift weight" is the maximum you can perform a single time. Clarification requested. Is this on some sort of chart based upon your weight?

Looks like we are the guinea pigs for a potential new test somewhere down the line. Again, this was at CAFB. Anywhere else and YMMV.

AD standard when starting a new program: Ready, Fire, Aim!

[billy pilgrim]

5 minute plank?! That seems kind of hard. I've done it for like 2 minutes and I didn't think it was very easy! I'll have to see if I can do it for 5 minutes, just out of curiosity if anything.

Haha - sounds like you missed out on being a four degree. All those keg stands and coeds distracted you from becoming a front leaning rest prodigy! I will take a strengthened core over "social skills" and "fun" any day...

I don't know what "the plank" has to do with g tolerance - which seems to be more highly correlated with being short, overweight and smoking.

[mp5g]

Uh...isn't that basically impossible? Your "max deadlift weight" is the maximum you can perform a single time. Clarification requested. Is this on some sort of chart based upon your weight?

So, from what me and the other studs could gather, since the deadlift is such a difficult exercise to do correctly, they want you to do 3-5 reps of a lower weight, that they then extrapolate via a formula for your one rep max. I guess they don't want you to injure yourself doing too much weight for a real "one-rep" max.

I don't know what "the plank" has to do with g tolerance - which seems to be more highly correlated with being short, overweight and smoking.

Planks work core, and a little back. Since most of your G-strain maneuver comes from Legs, Core, and Butt, they are assessing those particular areas with the exercises (as well as your anaerobic/aerobic condition with the sprints). Therefore, low time on the planks = shitty core and more work needed to strengthen that particular area.

[spaceman]

Haha - sounds like you missed out on being a four degree. All those keg stands and coeds distracted you from becoming a front leaning rest prodigy! I will take a strengthened core over "social skills" and "fun" any day...

I don't know what "the plank" has to do with g tolerance - which seems to be more highly correlated with being short, overweight and smoking.

Please tell me you're being sarcastic!

Planks work core, and a little back. Since most of your G-strain maneuver comes from Legs, Core, and Butt, they are assessing those particular areas with the exercises (as well as your anaerobic/aerobic condition with the sprints). Therefore, low time on the planks = shitty core and more work needed to strengthen that particular area.

It makes sense to me that a plank is more relevent to G-tolerance than arm curls or whatever, but doing it for 5 minutes is still not easy! I can max my pushups on the Army PT test (and the AF's), and I don't think I could hold a plank for 5 minutes. Not that you really need abs of steel to max the situps...

[Guest]

...two 300 meter sprints (down and back on a basketball court, w/ a 4 minute break in between each set).

Wait, what?

[spaceman]

Wait, what?

Maybe it's down and back 5.357 times? Seems easy enough.

[Swanee]

Does the AF really have a problem with guys not able to get through centrifuge training to the extent that they have to come up with some type of fitness test? In the Navy/Marine world we do the 7.5g profile, but I haven't heard of anyone who couldn't muscle their way through it.

[lazlo]

It is true, at CAFB we took the first round of the new test, which wasn't graded b/c they don't have any numbers to compare it to. They used some "Olympic deadlift interpolation" to come up with your max rep. Fking retarded. I personally have never done a deadlift before, and know that a "shuttle run" does not correlate to my g-tolerance. Another case of missing the mark.

[Kenny Powers]

It would be pretty easy to extrapolate your 1 rep max using data from your 3-5 rep max. Meatheads have had this figured out for decades. 3 rep max puts you somewhere around 85% of your 1 rep max. Doesn't have to be rocket science, since its all relative anyway (everyone will be held to the same standard if they pursue it), so it doesn't matter how accurate it is, as long as it's standard across the board.

I think this is awesome. The deadlift is probably the single best exercise to determine pure strength and those who hate it do so because they suck at it. Like all things in the gym, most people spend time working on their favorite exercises, while the areas you suck at the most are typically left behind.

Show me a guy that can deadlift 2X his weight and I will show you a guy who didn't become strong by doing bicep curls, leg curls, etc.. Same guy will be able to plank for days, even if he has never done a plank before.

Edited June 6, 2012 by Kenny Powers

[mp5g]

It makes sense to me that a plank is more relevent to G-tolerance than arm curls or whatever, but doing it for 5 minutes is still not easy! I can max my pushups on the Army PT test (and the AF's), and I don't think I could hold a plank for 5 minutes. Not that you really need abs of steel to max the situps...

They started with a 3 minute plank, but in the initial classes everyone was passing that bar, so they moved it up to 5 minutes. It's not saying you have to hit 5 minutes, but they didn't want everyone to get to the max number. I heard rumblings, and who knows if they're true or not, that planks may increase again to around 8 minutes. Any person who can plank for 8 minutes, correctly, is a beast.

Wait, what?

Noted. It's down and back 6 times each sprint.

[HeyWatchThis]

It would be pretty easy to extrapolate your 1 rep max using data from your 3-5 rep max. Meatheads have had this figured out for decades. 3 rep max puts you somewhere around 85% of your 1 rep max. Doesn't have to be rocket science, since its all relative anyway (everyone will be held to the same standard if they pursue it), so it doesn't matter how accurate it is, as long as it's standard across the board.

I think this is awesome. The deadlift is probably the single best exercise to determine pure strength and those who hate it do so because they suck at it. Like all things in the gym, most people spend time working on their favorite exercises, while the areas you suck at the most are typically left behind.

Show me a guy that can deadlift 2X his weight and I will show you a guy who didn't become strong by doing bicep curls, leg curls, etc.. Same guy will be able to plank for days, even if he has never done a plank before.

Sure, if you have proper coaching for the oly lifts but you know the Air Force is going to have some ridiculously structured approach thats a civilian, who has probably never done a dead lift read a paragraph on "proper form" for a dead lift and then tell them to have at it......

This is a retarded idea to have a bunch of kids, 90% of whom have probably NEVER done a proper deadlift, much less, max it, perform the test with their potential dream job on the line. This is going to do wonders for the contracted physical therapists we now utilize....

And FYI, I get it, the complex lifts are great, but isolation movements combined with complex movements will maximize both hypertrophy and strength.....not just doing one or the other all the time.....

Edited June 6, 2012 by MattS

[Kenny Powers]

This is a retarded idea to have a bunch of kids, 90% of whom have probably NEVER done a proper deadlift, much less, max it, perform the test with their potential dream job on the line. This is going to do wonders for the contracted physical therapists we now utilize....

And FYI, I get it, the complex lifts are great, but isolation movements combined with complex movements will maximize both hypertrophy and strength.....not just doing one or the other all the time.....

Thats a good point, how do they even know where to start with people who have never done them? Start with light weight, work your way up, and then its up to the individual to call it quits at a specific weight?

I think the injury thing is seriously overinflated. Infact, I believe most people use it as a reason not to do the lifts. People who get injured are typically people who beat themselves down in the gym, overtrain, then go in and try to pull something heavy.

I get what you are saying about hypertrophy, but keep in mind training for hypertrophy typically nets good physique results but poor performance/strenght/functional results. Seems like pilots would be performance driven. Hypertrophy does not neccessarily lead to strength, but strength always leads to hypertrophy.

[mp5g]

Thats a good point, how do they even know where to start with people who have never done them? Start with light weight, work your way up, and then its up to the individual to call it quits at a specific weight?

They broke us up into 3 groups (Beginner, Intermediate, and Advanced). Beginner's were people who never deadlifted before and started with the bar (no shit). Intermediate was someone who had done one maybe once or twice and they started out with 15-20 lbs on each side (can't remember, wasn't in that group). Advanced were people who had been exposed to deadlifts and we started out with 35's on each side.

The first set, everyone did 5 reps to show that they could demonstrate proper form. After that initial set, the weight was increased each lift by a set amount (in the Advanced group, we increased 30 lbs each set; can't speak about the other groups). When you approached for your next lift at the new weight, if the weight felt good for you during your one rep, then you would re-rack and move up an additional 30 lbs the following lift.

At some point you would tell the assessment group that you were ready to do your 3-5 max. For me, I lifted one rep at 285, and then moved up to 315. Before I started my lift, I told them that this set would be my go set because I didn't think I'd be able to do more than 3-5 reps in correct form.

So yes, it is up to the person lifting to call it quits. Fair for people who have never deadlifted in their life? Probably not, but maybe if this becomes the new FACT, during your in-processing to UPT they can let you know what the FACT will entail and you'll be able to stop by the base gym and have a trainer teach you the correct form. On the other hand, this is the AF, and sometimes, good sense doesn't make sense at all.

[aspec]

Aerospace phys. just needs to accept the fact that trying to determine a persons g-tolerance with a weight lifting test is pointless and drop the FACT altogether. Replacing a worthless program with another worthless program doesn't fix anything. I'm sure someone will get promoted though.

[Cap-10]

We gave an incentive ride to Priest Holmes (yes, the KC running back).

He didn't G-LOC, but after the canopy popped, he didn't get out of the plane for 30 minutes (NSTFS)...said his legs wouldn't work.

Before that flight, I bet he was dead lifting 690lbs and could plank for 69 minutes.

Cheers,

Cap-10

[Danger41]

I can deadlift over 400 pounds and have a very strong core. I've maxed every FACT I've ever taken and workout 6 days a week, but my g tolerance has always sucked. I know guys whose only workout regimen is walking from their car to buffalo wild wings and back who have no problem at all. A gym rat does not a g monster make. I agree with aspec 100%.

[Kenny Powers]

I can deadlift over 400 pounds and have a very strong core. I've maxed every FACT I've ever taken and workout 6 days a week, but my g tolerance has always sucked. I know guys whose only workout regimen is walking from their car to buffalo wild wings and back who have no problem at all. A gym rat does not a g monster make. I agree with aspec 100%.

Im not argueing that there is any relationship between the two. Simply stating that a deadlift is a better indicator of ones ability to use multiple muscles in the body to achieve a specific goal than the 69 isolated muscle movements.

You would think there has to be some emperical evidence that suggest some type of positive correlation between ones physical abilities and their corresponding g tolerance . There is some reason why the test is given. Surely this isn't completely mindless waste of time and resources. Whether or not it's clearly understood at this point is the question.

There is also the genetic difference to consider. The guy walking from his car to BWW's might have hit the genetic jackpot without realizing it and can perform better regardless of his workout regime because of it.

Edited June 7, 2012 by Kenny Powers

[Day Man]

I can deadlift over 400 pounds and have a very strong core. I've maxed every FACT I've ever taken and workout 6 days a week, but my g tolerance has always sucked. I know guys whose only workout regimen is walking from their car to buffalo wild wings and back who have no problem at all. A gym rat does not a g monster make. I agree with aspec 100%.

"I play real sports. Not trying to be the best at exercising."— Kenny Powers

[HossHarris]

You would think there has to be some emperical evidence that suggest some type of positive correlation between ones physical abilities and their corresponding g tolerance . There is some reason why the test is given. Surely this isn't completely mindless waste of time and resources.

There is not.

Because there IS a reason doesn't make it a good reason.

Has the air force taught you nothing? Mindless wastes of time and resources are the hardest AF policies to kill.

[BQZip01]

So, from what me and the other studs could gather, since the deadlift is such a difficult exercise to do correctly, they want you to do 3-5 reps of a lower weight, that they then extrapolate via a formula for your one rep max. I guess they don't want you to injure yourself doing too much weight for a real "one-rep" max.

Yeah...we used to do that AF-wide with a VO2 max test on a ergocycle. I'm sure a few folks here might remember it. The best part was that the VO2 max was a GREAT test and was perfect in every way. They basically did the same thing and extrapolated how well you'd do on an actual run. Thank goodness no one had problems with it... [/sarcasm]

Edit: stupidity

Edited June 7, 2012 by BQZip01