Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[10percenttruth]

^ this

New guys are timid because leadership discourages aggressiveness. The push is always to make the conservative decision. Sq leadership isn't held accountable for mission failure, so that shit never rolls downhill. You've all heard this mantra in its various forms;

"Safety first, mission always"

"Whenever you make a decision, imagine my face in the HUD, and if you can explain it to me..."

"Be conservative"

"Don't be afraid to cnx as the A/C"

Most communities tend to be very insulated from the ground dudes we support & never see the ramifications of these decisions. Combine that with the rampant CYA attitude in today's Air Force & you have a Petri dish for breeding timidity.

[tac airlifter]

^ this

New guys are timid because leadership discourages aggressiveness. The push is always to make the conservative decision. Sq leadership isn't held accountable for mission failure, so that shit never rolls downhill. You've all heard this mantra in its various forms.......

Combine that with the rampant CYA attitude in today's Air Force & you have a Petri dish for breeding timidity.

Valid points and I understand the new guy mentality and don't blame them--- I blame their bosses and a system incapable of picking the right bosses. Like I said: combat success/failure is not connected to career success/failure. If that could be fixed a lot of the rest would work itself out naturally. And yes, most communities are insulated from the ground user. But realize you can pick up a phone anytime and call them post mission just to ask "how could we improve?" Not doing that is on you, not your leadership and is part of that whole assertiveness thing I was talking about. I can blame bosses and systems all day long but ultimately you must ask what you have the power to fix, and focus efforts accordingly. I can't fix the system. I can teach a new AC to pick up the phone, call the user and harness that innate desire to excel that got you into a rated slot to start with.

[SVFR]

IIRC, ACP can't be more than $25K/year per the latest signed budget/authorization act

Congressional mandates never stopped them in the past.

[Skitzo]

Valid points and I understand the new guy mentality and don't blame them--- I blame their bosses and a system incapable of picking the right bosses. Like I said: combat success/failure is not connected to career success/failure. If that could be fixed a lot of the rest would work itself out naturally. And yes, most communities are insulated from the ground user. But realize you can pick up a phone anytime and call them post mission just to ask "how could we improve?" Not doing that is on you, not your leadership and is part of that whole assertiveness thing I was talking about. I can blame bosses and systems all day long but ultimately you must ask what you have the power to fix, and focus efforts accordingly. I can't fix the system. I can teach a new AC to pick up the phone, call the user and harness that innate desire to excel that got you into a rated slot to start with.

Spot on. Your previous post was great too.

And when we aren't taking the risks we should we are usually taking risks we shouldn't. It's like we have no accurate barometer of risk anymore if we ever did.

Edited June 5, 2013 by Skitzo

[Fuzz]

In a risk adverse culture it's hard because no one knows what is ok and what is isn't especially the new guys or the guys that have grown up in this system and are now instructors. Nobody has a baseline to measure it off of.

[Vetter]

There is also a double standard that exists. The chosen ones can do anything without scrutiny while the unchosen are looked at under a microscope. I've clearly never been a chosen one, but after a deployment where I saw vastly different standards enforced, I couldn't take it anymore.

[epsilon]

There is also a double standard that exists. The chosen ones can do anything without scrutiny while the unchosen are looked at under a microscope. I've clearly never been a chosen one, but after a deployment where I saw vastly different standards enforced, I couldn't take it anymore.

This is standard in every fighter squadron I've been in. Unfortunate.

[slackline]

This is standard in every fighter squadron I've been in. Unfortunate.

I feel pretty lucky in that case because while that definitely exists in Rescue, I feel like it has been minimal. For the most part, at least as of two years ago when last operational, it was known who we're the workers and who were the ones who avoided it.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

[di1630]

Back on topic, apparently the ACP is now ARI Aviation Retention Incentive according to a bro who called the phone number. Maybe this means they actually did rework details.

[ViperStud]

At this point I've gotta figure the only reason it's been held up this long is because there ARE changes. It would be stupid for such a delay if nothing were changing at all. Almost as stupid as cutting people then stop-lossing them a year or two later. Our leadership is above that kind of buffoonery.

Edited June 7, 2013 by ViperStud

[Day Man]

maybe this is a loophole to offer more than the 25k per ACP?

/glass half full of bourbon

[Butters]

maybe this is a loophole to offer more than the 25k per ACP?

/glass half full of bourbon

Or they changed the name so guys that already took the bonus can get the rest till 20 YAS. Got my last payment in 2011 and still have 4 years left. I have nothing against money so I will take a 25K per year 3 year bonus to stay doing what I was already going to stay doing....

[Dupe]

Maybe the AF realizes that it would be insulting to furlough one class of employees while offering a bonus to another class...

[ViperStud]

Actually it's more difficult to shit out a 2K hour flight examiner than it is a squadron UPC or secretary. The military is forced to pay people by grade/time so incentives are the only way to retain people with skill sets that are actually in demand. It's not about being fair and telling everyone they're special, nor should it be. And I'm dating a GS who is scheduled to be furloughed so I have an incentive to call BS. It's not BS.

[Herk Driver]

maybe this is a loophole to offer more than the 25k per ACP?

/glass half full of bourbon

The maximum amount of ACP is set by Congress.

[xaarman]

I think what he's saying is that by changing the name from ACP to something else, it signifies a different set of rules that allows the AF to offer higher than 25k/year.

[C-21.Pilot]

Talked to more folks "in leadership positions" here at Randolph. Expected to release "very soon" -- amounts and years are all going up.

Again, was told by another source (i.e AFPC dude) that a 7 yr, 35K bonus is expected along with the 5 yr @ 25K....I obviously am holding out hope to the rumors, and expect this to be completely inaccurate.

EDIT - there was no talk of it being re-named, we all just said "the bonus" and it was understood what we were talking about.

We'll see....

Edited June 8, 2013 by C-21.Pilot

[Herk Driver]

I got what he is saying...I also get that I doubt the CSAF is willing to take anymore beatings on the Hill for trying to do things without full disclosure to Congress.

You do realize what we (the USAF) are known as in the Congress, right?

[ThreeHoler]

You do realize what we (the USAF) are known as in the Congress, right?

The United States Air Force?

[C-21.Pilot]

Nope. Haven't you heard - we are all rapists!

And the crowds rejoice....

[Herk Driver]

Liars. Because we typically try to find a way to creatively re-create legislation to meet our desires.

I cannot find anything definitive in the 2013 NDAA for maximum amounts on ACP, however, I doubt after all the work that the CSAF has done trying to restore credibilitythat he would approve a change to the name and try to skirt the rules on the NDAA to add additional money to the bonus program.

If the NDAA authorizes more than the $25K that it has in the past, then no big deal. But, unless it does, I doubt you will see many changes. Still searching the document to see if there are any words on increased max amounts.

Edited June 8, 2013 by Herk Driver

[Learjetter]

Got an under-the-tentflap peek at some recent red line/blue line charts. If you believe them, only 11F/11S/11H would be eligible.

Translation: those are the only communities with shortages/predicted shortages....to FY30. That begs a question: will we see a MAF "feet-on-the-ramp" policy? (For you younguns: FOTR=non-bonus takers are immediately grounded and sent to command posts/current ops/XP/staff, etc)

More good news: instead of buying more aircraft/flying hours, or increasing UPT production, expect a reduction in crew ratios...which will instantly create a surplus of pilots free to go to staffs or other non-flying gigs.

Also: reposting: read your ACP contract carefully and understand it before you sign. It obligates You to stay in and serve (it does NOT obligate the AF to keep you flying or even in a rated position).

Good luck, fellas.

[Butters]

Translation: those are the only communities with shortages/predicted shortages....to FY30. That begs a question: will we see a MAF "feet-on-the-ramp" policy? (For you younguns: FOTR=non-bonus takers are immediately grounded and sent to command posts/current ops/XP/staff, etc)

So how does this work exactly? You are saying everyone who does not take the bonus is going to get the wing staff jobs that get them promoted and the guys that take the bonus will be line flyers and will not get promoted due to lack of Wing Strats, jobs, ect. Then the guys that got promoted will get out and the guys that didn't will get kicked out... How does that fix anything?

[matmacwc]

I've talked to old dudes on AD that remember boots on the ramp, not a happy time. I think they also called these dudes BENT (Bonus Eligible Not Taken). I heard that this applies to all 7 day opt dudes as well, no flying for a LONG time before you can get out.

[Learjetter]

Matmacwc: you answered your own question quite well. I'll elaborate: FOTR/BENT dudes stop flying. They don't stop working. Because they're BENT, they DON'T get strats or job titles that lead to strats. Wing exec still flies. Chief of tactics flies...because if THOSE guys decline the bonus, they stop working those jobs, and go help XP plan the next ORI.