Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[Rusty Pipes]

Yes. What's more absurd is considering current 11f manning vs cockpits/future MWSs, limited releases for school (because of too few 11Fs), that you will fill a desk for 9 consecutive years. After a few years, I'm getting used to this PCS thing and the uncertainty involved.

Holy shlt, he's right! Almost as bad as signing up for service for 11+ years right out of college, except now I get paid like a doctor.

No one is silly enough to find anything new in your rant. We are well aware of the uncertainty in military service - 9 year commitment or one VML cycle. As always, the decision is made based on family/personal reasons. The extra money can pay for a couple college degrees, give momma the kitchen she wants, or buy a couple years worth of cheap booze/fast women. Only a few examples of personal reasons and the money is in the decision matrix.

Hmmm... let's see, we had a CSAF and a SecAF fired because they thought F-22s were more important than UAVs. We have current UAV pilots bailing ASAFP when their ADSC is up (anecdotal, but 5 of 8 guys in my UPT class in 38s who ended up 11F got stuck in UAVs and all 5 are no longer on AD pulling chalks the first day they could). We have a POTUS who has no interest in being anywhere near the Middle East, but sure does love putting hellfire's up the asses of bad guys who live there. Guys who fly planes with 3 or more engines are not only making the owners of ALL ATP's and Higher Power wonder why everyone is talking about a bad economy... they are also making their MAF Sq CC's lives miserable by dropping papers before they can get to the first vowel of the words "Creech or Cannon". Yeah, if I were you I'd be betting on those orders to Eglin for F-35 school instead of a UAV after signing that paperwork... good luck with that! BTW... those who are now eligible for the bonus started UPT just months after 9/11. If you told all those who spent a year or two as an 11F and ended up non-vol'd to Creech for the next 6-9 yrs that was going to happen do you think they would have all been jumping at the chance to take that pilot slot? You're right, nobody knows what will happen in the next few years... but I'll bet you $225,000 that you won't hear the CSAF or AFPC anytime soon saying, "Thank God that mess is over... F-22s and F-35s for everyone!!!"

Edited June 26, 2013 by Rusty Pipes

[scoobs]

Hmmm... let's see, we had a CSAF and a SecAF fired because they thought F-22s were more important than UAVs. We have current UAV pilots bailing ASAFP when their ADSC is up (anecdotal, but 5 of 8 guys in my UPT class in 38s who ended up 11F got stuck in UAVs and all 5 are no longer on AD pulling chalks the first day they could). We have a POTUS who has no interest in being anywhere near the Middle East, but sure does love putting hellfire's up the asses of bad guys who live there. Guys who fly planes with 3 or more engines are not only making the owners of ALL ATP's and Higher Power wonder why everyone is talking about a bad economy... they are also making their MAF Sq CC's lives miserable by dropping papers before they can get to the first vowel of the words "Creech or Cannon". Yeah, if I were you I'd be betting on those orders to Eglin for F-35 school instead of a UAV after signing that paperwork... good luck with that! BTW... those who are now eligible for the bonus started UPT just months after 9/11. If you told all those who spent a year or two as an 11F and ended up non-vol'd to Creech for the next 6-9 yrs that was going to happen do you think they would have all been jumping at the chance to take that pilot slot? You're right, nobody knows what will happen in the next few years... but I'll bet you $225,000 that you won't hear the CSAF or AFPC anytime soon saying, "Thank God that mess is over... F-22s and F-35s for everyone!!!"

Wow, someone is not happy with the decisions made in life. Can't wait to see your post on flightinfo after your furlough from United in a few years.

[Day Man]

scoobs, ssshhhh.

[BFM this]

I remember asking as a new capt, why we couldn't have enoug tx seats to get everyone back from white jets, ALO, staff, etc. I was told that we couldn't have all of those Majors and LTCs coming back because there weren't enough jobs for them in a flying squadron.

Funny, it seems as though Creech has a much different perspective on that issue.

[Champ Kind]

Scoobs, list credentials or shut the fuck up.

[Magellan]

I remember asking as a new capt, why we couldn't have enoug tx seats to get everyone back from white jets, ALO, staff, etc. I was told that we couldn't have all of those Majors and LTCs coming back because there weren't enough jobs for them in a flying squadron.

Funny, it seems as though Creech has a much different perspective on that issue.

Most of them have $$ in their eyes looking at the jobs they can get after they add UAV experience to their resume when they hit the 20 year point.

[Rusty Pipes]

Wow, someone is not happy with the decisions made in life. Can't wait to see your post on flightinfo after your furlough from United in a few years.

Ha! I've actually lucked out so far and you have no idea what my story is, but I have seen WAY too many great dudes who have checked every box, played the game and been good little Airmen only to get a size 15 boot in the junk from Big Blue for their troubles. Good luck to all those guys who decide to take them up on the offer... I really hope it works out the way you hope it will for you and your family. Just saying don't be surprised when Lucy pulls away the football again!

Edited June 26, 2013 by Rusty Pipes

[BFM this]

Most of them have $$ in their eyes looking at the jobs they can get after they add UAV experience to their resume when they hit the 20 year point.

Occasionally, yes, but predominantly, no.

My point was that the AF has no qualms about throwing manning and rank planning out the window to suit its needs.

[sqwatch]

If you told all those who spent a year or two as an 11F and ended up non-vol'd to Creech for the next 6-9 yrs that was going to happen do you think they would have all been jumping at the chance to take that pilot slot?

11Fs don't go there any more, and if they're there and haven't re-cat'ed, they fill flying 11F billets

... F-22s and F-35s for everyone!!!"

Nope, just for 11f guys. The rest closed that door by choosing a different path in life or couldn't make it through the multiple weed-out programs.

Ha! I've actually lucked out so far and you have no idea what my story is

Hard to believe when...

:flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff:

Thanks Big Blue!!! Can't wait to see you scramble when all the AMC guys bail on you in the next year or two!!! If they could have had their shit together and just kept the bonus the same as it was then I could have signed it 6+ months ago when my ADSC was up... but since they are complete morons I am now past 16 yrs (late rated) and just lost $125K!!! What does 16 yrs as of 30 Sept have to do with anything??? We had 5 late rated or prior enlisted guys in my UPT class who are all still in flying now. The 3 prior enlisted have 20 yrs in already (or within a few months)... all 3 said they were going to sign the bonus if they could... all 3 have already told me since just this afternoon they will be putting in their separation paperwork tomorrow. Leave it to Big Blue to ###### up something this simple!!!

Back on track. Before someone blindly signs up for the bonus purely for the money, or stomps out the door because so many "great dudes" were given the shaft, I hope they rationally weigh the pros and cons of staying in the service. It's different for everyone.

[Rusty Pipes]

11Fs don't go there any more, and if they're there and haven't re-cat'ed, they fill flying 11F billets

Pretty sure I said guys who were there for 6 to 9 years, so "any more" has nothing to do with it...

Nope, just for 11f guys. The rest closed that door by choosing a different path in life or couldn't make it through the multiple weed-out programs.

My mistake... "F-22s, F-35s, KC-10s, C-17s for everyone!" You completely missed the point...

Hard to believe when...

Yup... can still say I've lucked out so far considering I know a few dozen guys who were non-continued or RIF'd in the past year or two, but still stand by my :flipoff: to Big Blue for not getting their shit together and taking away the option of guys in this position to take a Bonus if they wanted it by not releasing the FY13 Bonus until 9 months into the year and then coming up with an arbitrary date of 30 Sept for eligibility. Do they want to keep pilots or not? Showing the guys that they want to keep for another 9 years that they have no problem giving the middle digit to guys who have been in for 15-16 yrs should tell you something... depending on how much Kool Aid you have drank.

Maybe you should enlighten us with your vast experience prior to trolling here! Sounds like you have a Change of Command to plan or Christmas Party to volunteer for...

Edited June 27, 2013 by Rusty Pipes

[Danny Noonin]

...but still stand by my :flipoff: to Big Blue for not getting their shit together and taking away the option of guys in this position to take a Bonus if they wanted it by not releasing the FY13 Bonus until 9 months into the year and then coming up with an arbitrary date of 30 Sept for eligibility. Do they want to keep pilots or not? Showing the guys that they want to keep for another 9 years that they have no problem giving the middle digit to guys who have been in for 15-16 yrs should tell you something... depending on how much Kool Aid you have drank.

I realize you got left out and it sucks. But the bonus is a management tool. Seems to me that most guys with 16+ years have incentive enough to stay for another 4 years...a likely seven figure retirement package, sts. Some guys may get out at that point, but not many. So I can see why they would not offer the bonus to dudes that far along. I actually think it's a smart management decision considering limited resources to throw at the problem. I say that while also fully acknowledging that it sucks for guys in your position.

If you or anyone else is so pissed off at the AF that you would get out at 16+ years then go for it. But let the emotions settle and do some serious thinking before you do, since you'll be leaving an enormous amount of retirement money/benefits on the table. One more assignment and you'll get paid to breathe for the rest of your life. That's better than any bonus.

[Magellan]

Sounds like you have a Change of Command to plan or Christmas Party to volunteer for...

Way to anchor your argument!

Dude the lowest common denominator officer/pilot in any community 11F, 11M, and God forbid I mention 18x will probably stay in regardless of the bonus, because the rules are simple and the pay is decent. Some of the best and brightest will choose to exit the service because of how poorly the Air Force does/did X, Y, Z, and in their situation they feel they are better off on the outside. That said most of the ones I have talked are simply too proud to admit they regret it when they see their old buddies getting retirement checks 10 years later because they stuck with it, but their body language tells the true story with a few notable exceptions. Now what their wives and kids have to say about them getting out is another matter. This is simply an incentive the Air Force uses to target a specific demographic that might be on the fence about staying in for the long haul or punching. It is a BONUS for those lucky enough to be eligible not an ENTITLEMENT for everyone blessed enough to make it through pilot training.

edit: changed to to too for the grammar police.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Magellan

[matmacwc]

Hmmm... let's see, we had a CSAF and a SecAF fired because they thought F-22s were more important than UAVs. We have current UAV pilots bailing ASAFP when their ADSC is up (anecdotal, but 5 of 8 guys in my UPT class in 38s who ended up 11F got stuck in UAVs and all 5 are no longer on AD pulling chalks the first day they could). We have a POTUS who has no interest in being anywhere near the Middle East, but sure does love putting hellfire's up the asses of bad guys who live there. Guys who fly planes with 3 or more engines are not only making the owners of ALL ATP's and Higher Power wonder why everyone is talking about a bad economy... they are also making their MAF Sq CC's lives miserable by dropping papers before they can get to the first vowel of the words "Creech or Cannon". Yeah, if I were you I'd be betting on those orders to Eglin for F-35 school instead of a UAV after signing that paperwork... good luck with that! BTW... those who are now eligible for the bonus started UPT just months after 9/11. If you told all those who spent a year or two as an 11F and ended up non-vol'd to Creech for the next 6-9 yrs that was going to happen do you think they would have all been jumping at the chance to take that pilot slot? You're right, nobody knows what will happen in the next few years... but I'll bet you $225,000 that you won't hear the CSAF or AFPC anytime soon saying, "Thank God that mess is over... F-22s and F-35s for everyone!!!"

I know dudes that have lost their assignments to F-35s at Eglin due to the sequester, not IPUG complete due to grounding? Then you are not eligible for your assignment. You Butters types can argue the other way, but things aren't good for the majority. You think three/four ops to ops is good? Have fun with you 14 hours days, there is another side and some dudes will take advantage, and they should.

[Butters]

Way to anchor your argument!

Dude the lowest common denominator officer/pilot in any community 11F, 11M, and God forbid I mention 18x will probably stay in regardless of the bonus, because the rules are simple and the pay is decent. Some of the best and brightest will choose to exit the service because of how poorly the Air Force does/did X, Y, Z, and in their situation they feel they are better off on the outside. That said most of the ones I have talked are simply too proud to admit they regret it when they see their old buddies getting retirement checks 10 years later because they stuck with it, but their body language tells the true story with a few notable exceptions. Now what their wives and kids have to say about them getting out is another matter. This is simply an incentive the Air Force uses to target a specific demographic that might be on the fence about staying in for the long haul or punching. It is a BONUS for those lucky enough to be eligible not an ENTITLEMENT for everyone blessed enough to make it through pilot training.

edit: changed to to too for the grammar police.

You are still missing several commas and you seem to have a problem with run-on sentences. So, what happened to the 7 year 35K bonus the Bro network predicted? When does the hiring boom start?

[matmacwc]

You are still missing several commas and you seem to have a problem with run-on sentences. So, what happened to the 7 year 35K bonus the Bro network predicted? When does the hiring boom start?

Turns out its longer, tell us when you sign up!

[Butters]

Turns out its longer, tell us when you sign up!

Longer yes, but not as wide.... Not eligible, I am old and busted. The FY13 Bonus is for the new hotness. I took the 5 year back in ancient times.... 2006.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Butters

[matmacwc]

Longer yes, but not as wide.... Not eligible, I am old and busted. The FY13 Bonus is for the new hotness. I took the 5 year back in ancient times.... 2006.

So you are a free agent by my math

[Butters]

So you are a free agent by my math

Yes, a free agent that works a 0900 to 1300 job with a 1.5 hour lunch, 4 days a week. Customer is still happy because we answer our cell phones and emails. Then we dazzle them with airlift knowledge. 3.5 years left till 20. I have already done a real short tour so I am at the bottom of that list. I was lucky, but only because like many have said here before... I bloomed where I was planted and worked my next deployment/assignment myself, before the AF did it for me. I also had really good bosses at the right time. I am leaving at 20, not going to the airlines... I like job security.

Edited June 27, 2013 by Butters

[Karl Hungus]

If you or anyone else is so pissed off at the AF that you would get out at 16+ years then go for it. But let the emotions settle and do some serious thinking before you do, since you'll be leaving an enormous amount of retirement money/benefits on the table. One more assignment and you'll get paid to breathe for the rest of your life. That's better than any bonus.

The retirement will be changing, sooner rather than later, and definitely not for the better.

If you're going to stay or go, don't do it for theoretical money that may or may not exist.

[11F]

...Could get better, could easily get worse. 9 years is a LONG time to roll the dice that you'll still be happy with the job.

So was 10 years after pilot training. I'd say 11Fs tend to take risks...and $225k. (BTW, I totally agree with your post, RTB.)

Edited June 27, 2013 by 11F

[BFM this]

So was 10 years after pilot training. I'd say 11Fs tend to take risks...and $225k.

Nope.

After college you had no skills, no training, no marketability, no credentials. What the AF was offering was a fair market price for the commitment that it asked.

This latest iteration of the bonus is nowhere near a fair price. I am not advocating that anyone punch. But it is a gross undervaluation for anyone to consider this a good deal. Stay in, by all means. But retain the most valuable chips in your stack, at least until the pot is right.

[11F]

Nope.

After college you had no skills, no training, no marketability, no credentials. What the AF was offering was a fair market price for the commitment that it asked.

This latest iteration of the bonus is nowhere near a fair price. I am not advocating that anyone punch. But it is a gross undervaluation for anyone to consider this a good deal. Stay in, by all means. But retain the most valuable chips in your stack, at least until the pot is right.

It must be late where you are, because this didn't make sense. After college, we had a very marketable credential called a college degree. And "fair price" is all in the eyes of the beholder. Obviously, it's not fair in your opinion, but that's just an opinion of one. Apparently the USAF just needs to convince 65% that it's "fair". Time will tell, but something tells me the majority will say it is "fair" by taking the bonus.

[matmacwc]

It must be late where you are, because this didn't make sense. After college, we had a very marketable credential called a college degree. And "fair price" is all in the eyes of the beholder. Obviously, it's not fair in your opinion, but that's just an opinion of one. Apparently the USAF just needs to convince 65% that it's "fair". Time will tell, but something tells me the majority will say it is "fair" by taking the bonus.

I disagree, but I may be proved wrong.

[sqwatch]

Nope.

After college you had no skills, no training, no marketability, no credentials. What the AF was offering was a fair market price for the commitment that it asked.

This latest iteration of the bonus is nowhere near a fair price. I am not advocating that anyone punch. But it is a gross undervaluation for anyone to consider this a good deal. Stay in, by all means. But retain the most valuable chips in your stack, at least until the pot is right.

A gross undervaluation compared to what? How much should an 11f get paid with 11+ years of service? Is there a job that will pay the majority of us more than what the airforce is offering and give me a pension/healthcare? All this time I thought I was getting paid a decent salary compared to my peers, but then again I do hang out with a pretty blue collar crowd.

[Duck]

Wow. So I guess this thread is evidence that money does make the difference on whether you stay or go. Big Blue would be proud!