Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[TnkrToad]

Hmmm...interesting policy suggestion...see, you guys can come up with stuff that reaches the Pentagon!

While I probably would have signed a 15 year commitment, I see cadets today who aren't going to UPT. When I ask why, the 10 year commitment gets a lot of comments. It's not huge numbers, but it is surprising (to me anyway). Oddly, many of them have flying experience and enjoy flying, just don't want to be AF pilots.

GC--Funny, I always thought honesty was the best policy . . .

Try this:

- Post current "Red Line/Blue Line" charts that show overages/shortages of pilots by year group, broken down by AFSC—11F, 11M, etc.

-- You're making policy decisions (ARP/VSP/RIF/SERB/Palace Chase/promo board dates and rates) based on these numbers anyway--what's the harm in posting?

-- You'll in fact get better buy-in, not only in this forum, but across Big Blue, since folks will see the rational basis for the policy decisions you're making . . . this, of course, assumes that policies rationally correlate with the data you post (which is a stretch, I’ll admit)

- Shape--and publicly discuss the rationale for--promotion rates, ARP, SERB, based on this data

-- If there truly is a glut of FGOs (I suspect the glut is in the 20+ yrs of service crowd, not the 16-20 (at least in the pilot force--due to A1 "pilot bathtub" tomfoolery for the mid-90s year groups), then SERB those guys. They’ve already reached retirement age, they are by definition redundant, so what’s the harm? Likewise, for undermanned AFSCs provide bonuses for the year groups that are short.

--- Folks will get it if you show them the facts. Given the poor policy decisions in the past, "trust us, we know what we're doing" is going to fall flat

Best part is the problem will self-correct over time. Folks in overage year groups/AFSCs will either preemptively get out or steel themselves for the possibility/likelihood of being passed over—and hence will be unlikely to complain when the inevitable happens. Those in SUPT will compete all the more rigorously to get into shortage pilot career fields, knowing that promotions and financial incentives will surely follow.

You wanna get USAFA cadets motivated to fly? Show them, through words, actions and statistics that they’ve got bright futures ahead of them:

- Due to shortages of 11Fs in younger year groups, those who do end up getting a fighter stand a great chance of staying in the cockpit for a long time (due to shortages, hard to justify releasing to staff). If Big Blue is smart, higher promo rates and bonuses must surely follow . . . dudes get the best of both worlds—rage around the skies and get paid handsomely to do it—what’s not to love?

- Folks in overmanned AFSCs will know that Big Blue will rationally choose to let them Palace Chase to fix the imbalance. If they suck, they’ll perhaps be motivated to work a bit harder, knowing that RIF/being passed over hangs over their heads if not enough get out on their own

If cadets felt they could count on A1 to be rational, now would be an awesome time to go to SUPT.

[Recut]

IMO, quit feeding the troll.

[Duck]

Or just don't screw up things the first time and you won't have anything to fix. Technique only.

[Beaver]

It's funny that dudes feel the need to engage with people that are demonstrably worse at their jobs.

Sent from my KFTT using Tapatalk HD

[billy pilgrim]

A majority of USAFA cadets that I flew a few weeks ago are doing Contracting, Scientist, etc just to do 5-years and punch.

I've heard stuff along those lines, specifically 50 slots went unfilled at USAFA last year. If that's true it's pretty sad.

Big blue has somehow made the opportunity to fly some of the most extraordinary aircraft on the planet not worth everything that goes along with it. I think a figure like this is much more telling than retention stats.

On that note though - what would you tell a cadet who asked you what he thought he or she should do? It's worked out awesome for some here on BO, marginal for the majority and terrible for a few. (TAMI 21 anyone?)

I am not jaded, and I currently really enjoy my work but I've seen enough to know that there's no way in hell I will be signing anything that will increase my ADSC past what it currently is. The bottom line is that life is far too short to gamble $2,000 a month on potentially getting stuck in a job that makes you miserable. If AFPC had a better track record I might feel differently.

Just my $.02.

[Vprdrvr69]

Hmmm...another great suggestion, Jaded! You guys are on a roll!!

Hey F-16 guy with the sexist handle- you got any other good ones before I report in on Monday?

Exactly how is 69 sexist? Really? If done right, 69 is a great time between two consenting adults. Please define sexist and tell me how the hell you categorize 69 with that? Perhaps you're just upset because you really lack insight about what i speak of; maybe you were deprived and picked on just a little too much. It's too bad for you. I wish booger-eaters had got more action so that we could focus on problem solving instead of blaming a number for sexual crimes. The $hit that gets you guys upset is truly mind boggling.

No more feeding for you.

[HossHarris]

Exactly how is 69 sexist? Really? If done right, 69 is a great time between two consenting adults. Please define sexist and tell me how the hell you categorize 69 with that? Perhaps you're just upset because you really lack insight about what i speak of; maybe you were deprived and picked on just a little too much. It's too bad for you. I wish booger-eaters had got more action so that we could focus on problem solving instead of blaming a number for sexual crimes. The $hit that gets you guys upset is truly mind boggling.

No more feeding for you.

It's classic knee-jerk over compensation.

Rather than focus on the few bad apples, or illegal sexual assault, or even just inappropriate sexual conduct the management (as demonstrated by recent posts) has WAY overshot and wants to crush anything that is even vaguely related to sexuality at all.

Welcome to institutional compulsory über-prudishness everyone. Next few years ought to be awesome.

[pawnman]

I don't understand how stop loss would actually be implemented. What do you do, stop loss all pilots until their O5 look and then kick out a bunch of majors? It seems like stop loss only works as a temporary measure while you create a long term fix. What's the long term fix in this case? 15 year ADSCs?

5-year ADSCs for a PCS.

[pcola]

Somebody delete pawnman's post ^^ before anybody gets any bright fuckin ideas.

[StoleIt]

5-year ADSCs for a PCS.

[Skitzo]

Oh here's another one. Increase the ADSC for the TX course for anyone returning from RPAs or from AFSOC back to ACC. If that ever happens.

[Scooter14]

Warrant officers. Just sayin'.

[TarHeelPilot]

Increase ADSC by one day each time the following occurs:

1) eat at the base Burger King

2) Shop at the Commissary/BX

Decrease ADSC by one day:

1) Purchase a meal at the "Club"

[Gravedigger]

Under those conditions, my ADSC would have changed by 0 days.

[Butters]

Under those conditions, my ADSC would have changed by 0 days.

That would mean you eat 2 meals a day at the club. Way to support the club system!!!!

[sputnik]

I've heard stuff along those lines, specifically 50 slots went unfilled at USAFA last year. If that's true it's pretty sad.

Big blue has somehow made the opportunity to fly some of the most extraordinary aircraft on the planet not worth everything that goes along with it. I think a figure like this is much more telling than retention stats.

On that note though - what would you tell a cadet who asked you what he thought he or she should do? It's worked out awesome for some here on BO, marginal for the majority and terrible for a few. (TAMI 21 anyone?)

I've read the 50 slots number a few times, but never anywhere remotely official so I'm not sure I believe it. Generally there are about as many slots as people who want them.

There seems to be a feeling among cadets that being an AF pilot isn't fun. And/or worth the 10 year commit. The issue has become a concern institutionally, it's a big part of why the powered flight program exists. They are also adding more airmanship programs. For example, as in days of old everyone will take at least a few glider rides. Everyone will get a few T53 rides, etc.

Total aside, but I recently came across an old program, they used to have T33s (and later 37s I believe) over at Pete so that cadets could go fly during their free periods. That would've rocked.

[Hacker]

Hey F-16 guy with the sexist handle

This is exactly the problem right here: someone who thinks that a reference to anything sexual is "sexist".

Suggest you go pick up a dictionary and look that word up, then go back and reassess if "69" is what it describes.

This is as asinine as the slide I saw recently at the sexual assault stand down that said:

Anything offensive = sexual assault = UCMJ violation

[BigE]

This is exactly the problem right here: someone who thinks that a reference to anything sexual is "sexist".

Suggest you go pick up a dictionary and look that word up, then go back and reassess if "69" is what it describes.

This is as asinine as the slide I saw recently at the sexual assault stand down that said:

Anything offensive = sexual assault = UCMJ violation

Shack

[ThreeHoler]

Not sure of the # of eligibles for this year's program, but there are already well over 200 ARP applications submitted.

[Rusty Pipes]

Not sure of the # of eligibles for this year's program, but there are already well over 200 ARP applications submitted.

Were those mostly submitted at the MPF on the outbound PCS or did most just wait until they got to Maxwell to put their paperwork in?

[AnimalMother]

Oh here's another one. Increase the ADSC for the TX course for anyone returning from RPAs or from AFSOC back to ACC. If that ever happens.

That would apply to what? 1, maybe 2 guys that I know of. AFSOC is a selfish child.

"If that happens"? Still holding on to hope are we? Just let it go bro, let it go.

[ThreeHoler]

Were those mostly submitted at the MPF on the outbound PCS or did most just wait until they got to Maxwell to put their paperwork in?

Don't know. Sorry. Only what I heard from a bro who talked to the ARP dude today. We should see the Jul take rate in a few weeks.

[Rusty Pipes]

Don't know. Sorry. Only what I heard from a bro who talked to the ARP dude today. We should see the Jul take rate in a few weeks.

Sarcasm detector INOP. I have several buds who signed up for the Bonus already... every one of them is in the middle of a PCS to School. I don't know anyone that I have talked to yet that has signed that isn't a School guy. So, with the half dozen or so that I can speak about, the AF has essentially paid $125K to a bunch of guys who had every intention of staying in the AF anyway. On the other hand, I know at least twice as many (mostly 11M and a few 11F and RPA types) who have said there is NFW they are signing and either recently dropped papers or are waiting to get orders to drop papers. It will be interesting to see the take rates, but you know they will NEVER break out how many guys sign that are going to School.

You can bet anything on the fact that if the take rate is low that they will blame it on the fact that it was released so late. I'm sure they would have got a few more if it was released last Fall like it should have been, but in reality it will just be upper management burying their heads in the sand and not admitting they actually have a problem.

[Vprdrvr69]

That would apply to what? 1, maybe 2 guys that I know of. AFSOC is a selfish child.

"If that happens"? Still holding on to hope are we? Just let it go bro, let it go.

So true, every last word!

[General Chang]

Rusty,

If the take rate is lower than last year, you are correct & hit the nail on the head, it is because of the late release. Nothing has demonstrably changed from last year EXCEPT the very late release.

Again, you won't be able to see the true effect of the -11F increase until next year, when the numbers will go up no matter when the release occurs, because 11Fs will not get out of the Air Force until the bonus info is released.

Expect same bonus next year- increase for -11Fs only.