Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[General Chang]

And when the AADs were masked they didn't see them either... but the Sq CC's knew and were ranking the guys with AAD's above anyone who didn't have one so it didn't matter if the board saw it or not, results were pre-determined.

Man, you are cynical! I'm sorry, but stop messing with people's minds. It's just not right.

No CC worth his salt would hold this against someone. I'm not saying they're not out there, but for the sake of the young guys reading these blogs, either you are the most unfortunate son-of-a-gun to see all of these horrible things during your AF career (reference, um, nearly everything you post), or most CCs out there aren't nearly as evil as you think they are. For heaven's sake, Rusty...

[HeloDude]

Man, you are cynical! I'm sorry, but stop messing with people's minds. It's just not right.

No CC worth his salt would hold this against someone. I'm not saying they're not out there, but for the sake of the young guys reading these blogs, either you are the most unfortunate son-of-a-gun to see all of these horrible things during your AF career (reference, um, nearly everything you post), or most CCs out there aren't nearly as evil as you think they are. For heaven's sake, Rusty...

Apparently you aren't familiar with what happened in the 90's with regards to this issue...

[Liquid]

And when the AADs were masked they didn't see them either... but the Sq CC's knew and were ranking the guys with AAD's above anyone who didn't have one so it didn't matter if the board saw it or not, results were pre-determined.

I saw this happen. For all of those who were told it wasn't important and that AAD would be masked at the board (as well as the "don't do correspondence when you are a select" Practice Bleeding Memo) the message was "don't believe the shitbags when they tell you something doesn't matter." I really hope CSAF pulls this one off correctly by masking AAD at the board, and prohibiting it as a discriminator for anything that doesn't specifically require it. But you might as well get an AAD, it is cheap and easy, like Vetter.

[Rusty Pipes]

Man, you are cynical! I'm sorry, but stop messing with people's minds. It's just not right.

No CC worth his salt would hold this against someone. I'm not saying they're not out there, but for the sake of the young guys reading these blogs, either you are the most unfortunate son-of-a-gun to see all of these horrible things during your AF career (reference, um, nearly everything you post), or most CCs out there aren't nearly as evil as you think they are. For heaven's sake, Rusty...

Chang... we are most definitely not in the same Air Force. This has noting to do with good vs bad Commanders, it has to do with a mindset at the O-6 level and above that isn't going to change anytime soon. I am extremely cynical when it comes to sweeping changes even made from the CSAF that involve a complete mindset change of every Commander below him. Years ago as a young OG Exec I sat in a rack and stack meeting as a fly on the wall for an upcoming O-4 board back when the AAD was masked. The very specific guidance was that the AAD was to be masked and not considered or even seen by the Wing CC... when the rack and stack was complete and pushed up from the 4 flying Sq CCs and the OG/CC there was not a single individual without an AAD ranked above anyone who had one (and it was an openly discussed discriminator). My immediate "lesson learned/mentorship" passed to every co-pilot I flew with was no matter what anyone said about AADs or SOS in correspondence from that point out not being required (including the Sq CC) was just get it done because it was being used as a discriminator even if they said it wasn't.

I've had several terrible Commanders and I've had several fantastic Commanders. One of the best Commanders I ever had was my last OG/CC who told me countless times sitting in his office shooting the shit at the end of the day how much of an incredible waste of time and effort it was for us to be getting useless AADs and doing PME in correspondence and said it was certainly taking away from us being better pilots... but his rack and stack was the same as the OG/CC above because if it wasn't his folks couldn't compete with the rest of their AF peers. That is the stage that has been set over the past 10 yrs and it probably won't be changing anytime soon. You call it cynical, I call it reality. He thought it was bullshit, but guess what... he knew everyone who had their AAD complete, their PME complete (and when they completed them) and yes, whether they signed the bonus or not. I know this because I was the one who had to get all of that info for him and put it on a nice little excel sheet by year group.

I heard the horror stories of the 90s from all the old guys when I first came in, I saw the lines around the corner at the MPF for the first VSP, I saw the 157 get booted at 15 yrs with non-continuation (several were good friends of mine), I saw the complete disaster of the last VSP/RIF where we kicked out some fantastic pilots just to be "fair" to other AFSCs because we are all equal and like everyone else I am sitting back and watching the current fiasco of Force Shaping where the rules are actually changing several times a day to the point where even the folks at AFPC who are running the thing don't know what is going on... forgive me for not having great trust in the system right now just because some Troll (read Chang) is coming on here telling the passengers on the Titanic to just go back to their rooms and don't worry about the little chunks of ice on the deck! This has nothing to do with good Commanders and bad Commanders... I have plenty of good friends who are sitting Sq CCs right now and they are pulling their hair out over this mess. As Liquid said, I really hope the CSAF can pull this off correctly... but even if the Boss told every co-pilot in my Sq to their face that getting an AAD wasn't required; they'd all know they need to get it done anyway because we've all seen this movie before and the ending doesn't change. We have an actual leader as a Chief right now... hopefully some of the other GOs and O-6s start to follow his example. Most of the guys out there just want to be inspired... its been a while!

Edited January 29, 2014 by Rusty Pipes

[Karl Hungus]

I really hope CSAF pulls this one off correctly by masking AAD at the board, and prohibiting it as a discriminator for anything that doesn't specifically require it.

So WTF is taking him so long? It's not like this concern is new, people have been talking about this stupidity for the past decade.

[Homestar]

... it is cheap and easy, like Vetter.

Just as an aside, Vetter may be "cheap and easy" but on BODN all "cheap and easy" references should more properly be directed at BQZip's mom.

[Liquid]

Just as an aside, Vetter may be "cheap and easy" but on BODN all "cheap and easy" references should more properly be directed at BQZip's mom.

Rookie mistake...won't happen again.

[C-21.Pilot]

Rookie mistake...won't happen again.

2Lt? A1C? You just outed yourself….

[sqwatch]

Chang... we are most definitely not in the same Air Force. This has noting to do with good vs bad Commanders, it has to do with a mindset at the O-6 level and above that isn't going to change anytime soon. I am extremely cynical when it comes to sweeping changes even made from the CSAF that involve a complete mindset change of every Commander below him. Years ago as a young OG Exec I sat in a rack and stack meeting as a fly on the wall for an upcoming O-4 board back when the AAD was masked. The very specific guidance was that the AAD was to be masked and not considered or even seen by the Wing CC... when the rack and stack was complete and pushed up from the 4 flying Sq CCs and the OG/CC there was not a single individual without an AAD ranked above anyone who had one (and it was an openly discussed discriminator). My immediate "lesson learned/mentorship" passed to every co-pilot I flew with was no matter what anyone said about AADs or SOS in correspondence from that point out not being required (including the Sq CC) was just get it done because it was being used as a discriminator even if they said it wasn't.

I've had several terrible Commanders and I've had several fantastic Commanders. One of the best Commanders I ever had was my last OG/CC who told me countless times sitting in his office shooting the shit at the end of the day how much of an incredible waste of time and effort it was for us to be getting useless AADs and doing PME in correspondence and said it was certainly taking away from us being better pilots... but his rack and stack was the same as the OG/CC above because if it wasn't his folks couldn't compete with the rest of their AF peers. That is the stage that has been set over the past 10 yrs and it probably won't be changing anytime soon. You call it cynical, I call it reality. He thought it was bullshit, but guess what... he knew everyone who had their AAD complete, their PME complete (and when they completed them) and yes, whether they signed the bonus or not. I know this because I was the one who had to get all of that info for him and put it on a nice little excel sheet by year group.

I heard the horror stories of the 90s from all the old guys when I first came in, I saw the lines around the corner at the MPF for the first VSP, I saw the 157 get booted at 15 yrs with non-continuation (several were good friends of mine), I saw the complete disaster of the last VSP/RIF where we kicked out some fantastic pilots just to be "fair" to other AFSCs because we are all equal and like everyone else I am sitting back and watching the current fiasco of Force Shaping where the rules are actually changing several times a day to the point where even the folks at AFPC who are running the thing don't know what is going on... forgive me for not having great trust in the system right now just because some Troll (read Chang) is coming on here telling the passengers on the Titanic to just go back to their rooms and don't worry about the little chunks of ice on the deck! This has nothing to do with good Commanders and bad Commanders... I have plenty of good friends who are sitting Sq CCs right now and they are pulling their hair out over this mess. As Liquid said, I really hope the CSAF can pull this off correctly... but even if the Boss told every co-pilot in my Sq to their face that getting an AAD wasn't required; they'd all know they need to get it done anyway because we've all seen this movie before and the ending doesn't change. We have an actual leader as a Chief right now... hopefully some of the other GOs and O-6s start to follow his example. Most of the guys out there just want to be inspired... its been a while!

Too many words. Did not read.

[Skitzo]

Think Liquid meant in regards to the message board...

Edit: Holy shit 1000th post. Kind of like when your car hits 100k miles... over 11 years?

Edited January 30, 2014 by Skitzo

[Flare]

Any rumors on this year's bonus yet? I became a free agent last night; every day it delays now costs me money! (hypothetically, of course....)

[Butters]

I would guess same as last year.

Edited February 20, 2014 by Butters

[HeloDude]

Any rumors on this year's bonus yet? I became a free agent last night; every day it delays now costs me money! (hypothetically, of course....)

It was passed in the budget and appropriated...so the money is there if the AF once again decides to use it. I'm in the same boat man but I have a feeling it's going to get delayed longer than usual because of the VSP/RIF BS. But you're right, for an 11F (assuming it would at least be the same as last year), the longer it takes, the more you lose since you would get it to 20. Damn bastard.

[di1630]

Anyone else get hit on taxes because the ACP put them over the limit for ROTH IRA contributions? I am not tax savvy so wondering if anyone has a good idea for avoiding the penalty.

[Striper_WSO]

Anyone else get hit on taxes because the ACP put them over the limit for ROTH IRA contributions? I am not tax savvy so wondering if anyone has a good idea for avoiding the penalty.

I think you are saying that you are over the $191K income limit (married filing jointly) for contributing to a Roth IRA. You should be able to recategorize your contributions into a traditional IRA. This may involve withdrawing the funds from your Roth to put into a traditional IRA. Call your brokerage and ask if this is available. You will lose the tax-deferred growth of these contributions obviously. There is no income limit for contributing to a traditional IRA. There are deduction limits on a traditional IRA though.

But, Congrats! You are into the neighborhood of (relatively) high earners…and the Roth wasn't intended for these folks.

Edited March 3, 2014 by Striper_WSO

[HossHarris]

And theb convert that traditional to a Roth and bobs your uncle

[jumangio]

Just heard "unofficially" that we can expect the bonus to not be available to AMC pilots this year (this tidbit was briefed at ACSC today, then backed up by a person I know at A1). Let the AF egress floodgates open!

[Rusty Pipes]

Just heard "unofficially" that we can expect the bonus to not be available to AMC pilots this year (this tidbit was briefed at ACSC today, then backed up by a person I know at A1). Let the AF egress floodgates open!

Ha... they don't need to offer a Bonus when there is Stop Loss!!! Seriously though, was the year group (11Ms) that would be eligible for ACP next year part of the VSP/RIF eligible group?

[jumangio]

Ha... they don't need to offer a Bonus when there is Stop Loss!!! Seriously though, was the year group (11Ms) that would be eligible for ACP next year part of the VSP/RIF eligible group?

The 11M group that could sign this year was/is eligible.

[Rusty Pipes]

The 11M group that could sign this year was/is eligible.

Well I guess that all the guys who are going to School and planned on staying in won't get paid to do so. Those who want to get out can try to VSP. That leaves those who are not School types, but want to stay for one reason or another and just won't get paid for it. I'm sure they will get a handful of guys who will get out because they can't get the bonus, but it solves the problem of paying people who had every intention of staying in the first place... will suck for the 11M sitting next to the 11F in Polifka with $18K less in his bank account though.

[BitteEinBit]

We always hear about take rates (I.e Air Force meeting their goal) but we never hear about numbers of eligibles who separate. I'm willing to bet the numbers who separate won't change much even without the bonus. Like RP said, most of the people who take the bonus were going to stay anyway.

The only thing not having a bonus will change is in the way AFPC has to manage the rated force...they don't have the leverage anymore and they may actually have to plan ahead. My prediction: They will fail miserably.

[Striper_WSO]

Anyone else get hit on taxes because the ACP put them over the limit for ROTH IRA contributions? I am not tax savvy so wondering if anyone has a good idea for avoiding the penalty.

Also this from this morning's WSJ. A big STS on the whole article.

Going through the back door can pay off for high-income retirement savers.

We're talking about the backdoor route into popular Roth individual retirement accounts, which offer tax-free income in later life.

The front door into Roths is shut for many investors. Married couples earning $191,000 or more and singles earning $129,000 or more in 2014 are barred from contributing directly to Roth IRAs.

But there's a simple detour that works for many of them. They can put money into a traditional IRA—and then roll that into a Roth IRA, getting all the benefits.

More than 40% of the Silicon Valley executives working with adviser Bijan Golkar of FPC Investment Advisory Inc. in Petaluma, Calif., do this year after year, he says. Roth IRAs are "a great tool" for these clients, who are likely to be in high tax brackets even in retirement because of hefty 401(k) accounts, he says.

With a Roth IRA, contributions are made with after-tax dollars, but earnings compound without tax and can be withdrawn tax-free in retirement. With a traditional IRA, in contrast, qualifying savers get an upfront tax deduction but owe tax when money is withdrawn.

Most high earners who can't contribute directly to a Roth also can't make a deductible IRA contribution. For instance, there's no deduction if you are covered by a retirement plan at work and have 2014 income of at least $116,000 on a joint return or $70,000 as a single filer. So for those investors, a traditional IRA is ho-hum.

But high earners are still allowed to contribute to a traditional IRA, and that's the first step in the indirect route to a Roth IRA. The next step, which might occur as soon as a few days later: Convert that traditional IRA to a Roth, which is a move available to all.

There's one big caveat: This strategy works best for people who don't already have money in traditional IRAs. That's because in conversions, earnings and previously untaxed contributions in traditional IRAs are taxed—and that tax is figured based on allyour traditional IRAs, even ones you aren't converting.

For an investor who doesn't already hold traditional IRAs, creating one and then quickly converting it into a Roth IRA will cost little or nothing in tax, because after a short holding period there's likely to be little or no appreciation in the account.

But if you already have money in traditional IRAs, particularly ones for which you took a deduction, you could face a far higher tax bill on the conversion.

"That is definitely a trap that people fall into," says Jeffrey Levine, a CPA with Ed Slott & Co. in Rockville Centre, N.Y.

One possible workaround, he says, is to roll older traditional IRAs into your 401(k) plan, if the plan allows. Then converting a new IRA into a Roth will cost you taxes on only the earnings, if any, of the new account.

[epsilon]

Anyone else get hit on taxes because the ACP put them over the limit for ROTH IRA contributions? I am not tax savvy so wondering if anyone has a good idea for avoiding the penalty.

Yeah man I got hit as well. I was a couple grand above the limit for contributing to a Roth for myself and my wife. I had already put 5k in a Roth for each of us in 2013, so I had to call USAA and have those contributions converted to a traditional IRA. Not a huge deal I guess since it is only one year---but with that 50% ACP up front my agi was around 192k for 2013! I was also living overseas and am not 100% sure how cola, etc affects AGI.

[Lord Ratner]

I was also living overseas and am not 100% sure how cola, etc affects AGI.

It's an allowance, so it should have no effect.

[Majestik Møøse]

I'm willing to bet the numbers who separate won't change much even without the bonus. Like RP said, most of the people who take the bonus were going to stay anyway.

I don't know. Those sitting on the fence, trying to decide if they want to stick it out and continue doing all they can to fix their piece of the sinking ship, now will apply a ~$90-125K hit to the "continue to serve" option. What once was not entirely about money now is, and the airline copilot pay gap is comparatively smaller.

I bet AFPC feels like they just used the nuke option. What they don't see is that they used it on themselves.

Edited March 9, 2014 by Majestik Møøse