Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[AlifBaa]

If I am at the 14 year point.. and decide to go RPA, does this $35000 apply to me?  If not, what would I get as a RPA dude?

The law says:

(3) FIXING BONUS AMOUNT.—Upon acceptance by the Secretary concerned of the written agreement required by subsection (d), the total amount of the bonus to be paid under the agreement shall be fixed. 

I'm no lawyer, but I believe that means you'd have to enter a new agreement.  However, I think the second agreement could run concurrently with the original.  For example, it could require you to serve some amount of time in an RPA.  If this bill gets passed, the key is to read the PDSM and ask AFPC if you're confused.  I asked them a question this last year when I extended my bonus and got a pretty complete answer from the guy who handles the bonuses for AFPC.  

[TnkrToad]

... the overall pilot loss rate was 61.7%, with almost 71% of eligible mobility pilots leaving (if I'm reading that right). This also leaves the mobility pilot force the youngest out of all the types. What could possibly go wrong?

No doubt in my mind that the mobility pilot community is hurting, and the evidence is in the ACP reports.

It’s difficult to comprehend why the 20 YAS option wasn’t offered to 11Ms until last FY. Maybe if rated managers had acknowledged the clearly pending train wreck in the 11M community years ago, there might be some experience at the wing level and below, and we might have enough 11Ms remain on active duty long enough to be picky about future senior mobility leaders.

Read below for the long version. Not saying other communities aren’t equally screwed, but rather sticking with what I know:

- The 11M community alone has, over the past 3 years, lost 600 pilots/year (to all causes—retirements, separations, promotion to O-6, etc.)

- 

 About 250 of the above were 11Ms who either retired or were promoted to O-6

--- The majority of the remaining 350 were experienced aviators with 12-19 yrs commissioned service (folks who might have stayed if not offered TERA and/or were offered 20 YAS option)

- I’ll be very generous and estimate that the AF is producing 400 11Ms/yr (my guess is it’s closer to 300-350, maybe even less after discounting those lost to 11U billets)

Bottom line, the Air Force is losing 11Ms at least 50% faster than they’re replacing them, and those highly experienced folks who left are being backfilled with dudes who are being crushed by undermanning, a dearth of experienced pilots in the squadrons, the threat of RPA nonvols, etc.

The Air Force’s apparent response, as indicated by congressional rulemaking, is to further incentivize folks to pursue RPA assignments.

It’ll take some very inspired leadership to pull the 11M community through the next several years, but the stats don’t bode well in this respect, either. Optimistically, about 60 11M O-5s will meet the O-6 board in the zone at the next board. The Air Force has promoted 43 11Ms per year (on average, over the past 3 years) to O-6. At a 45% IPZ promotion rate, that’ll yield just 27 new 11-M O-6s . . . which will mean that the few 11Ms promoted to O-6 will be all the more stretched thin, with ever-fewer graybeard O-5 11M types in wings/groups/squadrons to back them up. The 12M community has shrunk so significantly that they can’t help as much with filling OSS/other billets in lieu of 11Ms like they used to during years past. The ensuing inevitable clown show in the mobility community—due to senior leaders and their staffs being overworked—will provide all the more incentive for young 11Ms to get out at the earliest opportunity, thus perpetuating the cycle.

Meanwhile, the Air Force fiddles with the soup du jour (RPAs), while the overall pilot community burns. The 11M community, if 11F take rates and discussion all over this forum are any indication, isn’t the only one suffering from a lack of foresight from rated force managers.

TT

[TnkrToad]

TL;DR

TT, here's the video of the AF trying to figure out the ACP:  Totally aims in the wrong direction, gets in his own way, only gets 45% of the water in his mouth, but exhales "ahhh" and smiles with glee anyway.    .....holy shit man, don't overthink it. 

 

Copy. I figured the short version--"11Ms are being driven into the ground by rated force managers and the senior leaders dumb enough to listen to them"--didn't cut it. The video works though. 

- BTW, I'm sure the $35k bonus for RPA drivers is totally going to make a difference by convincing the eleven FY16 initial eligible RPA pilots who didn't already take the early bonus to stay on active duty 

TT

[17D_guy]

 

- The 11M community alone has, over the past 3 years, lost 600 pilots/year (to all causes—retirements, separations, promotion to O-6, etc.)

 

I can't tell you how much I enjoy reading that promotion to O-6 is a loss of a pilot.  Sad state of affairs.

[MooseAg03]

I'm sure the extra $35k for RPAs will make a huge difference. Especially when you can take your form 8 across the hall and be hired to do the same job without the active duty bullshit for significantly more money.

[AlifBaa]

^ Agreed.  

When we're giving physicians up to $100,000 annual bonuses, it's hard for the CSAF to argue he can't compete on pay.  What's even wackier is the AF is paying the contractors a profit on the pay we supposedly can't gather for uniformed members!

The deal with the all volunteer military is that you have to pay what the market will bear.  The AF has figured that out in other contexts.  Leadership isn't even trying to solve the problem.

[Duck]

Bottom line, pay is nice but not a single one of you joined the military for the pay. For most, pay will not be the reason people leave. I truly believe we have the best job in the world and being a glorified aerial bus driver shouldn't be able to compete. However with the toxic leadership, the piss poor people management, deployed empire building to prop up the next generation of "combat" generals, and the general apathy from the Air Force makes this decision easy for most. Throwing money at the problem is not going to buy loyalty, but merely keep some fence sitters in for a little while longer.

Just my $.02.

[BFM this]

Throwing money at the problem is not going to buy loyalty, but merely keep some fence sitters in for a little while longer.

Just my $.02.

Are you loath to make a decision? We value your indecisiveness. Here, here's another $10k/yr to help you feel good about undervaluing your life choices.

[NKAWTG]

No doubt in my mind that the mobility pilot community is hurting, and the evidence is in the ACP reports.

 

It’s difficult to comprehend why the 20 YAS option wasn’t offered to 11Ms until last FY. Maybe if rated managers had acknowledged the clearly pending train wreck in the 11M community years ago, there might be some experience at the wing level and below, and we might have enough 11Ms remain on active duty long enough to be picky about future senior mobility leaders.

 

Read below for the long version. Not saying other communities aren’t equally screwed, but rather sticking with what I know:

 

- The 11M community alone has, over the past 3 years, lost 600 pilots/year (to all causes—retirements, separations, promotion to O-6, etc.)

 

- 

 

About 250 of the above were 11Ms who either retired or were promoted to O-6

 

--- The majority of the remaining 350 were experienced aviators with 12-19 yrs commissioned service (folks who might have stayed if not offered TERA and/or were offered 20 YAS option)

 

- I’ll be very generous and estimate that the AF is producing 400 11Ms/yr (my guess is it’s closer to 300-350, maybe even less after discounting those lost to 11U billets)

 

Bottom line, the Air Force is losing 11Ms at least 50% faster than they’re replacing them, and those highly experienced folks who left are being backfilled with dudes who are being crushed by undermanning, a dearth of experienced pilots in the squadrons, the threat of RPA nonvols, etc.

 

The Air Force’s apparent response, as indicated by congressional rulemaking, is to further incentivize folks to pursue RPA assignments.

 

It’ll take some very inspired leadership to pull the 11M community through the next several years, but the stats don’t bode well in this respect, either. Optimistically, about 60 11M O-5s will meet the O-6 board in the zone at the next board. The Air Force has promoted 43 11Ms per year (on average, over the past 3 years) to O-6. At a 45% IPZ promotion rate, that’ll yield just 27 new 11-M O-6s . . . which will mean that the few 11Ms promoted to O-6 will be all the more stretched thin, with ever-fewer graybeard O-5 11M types in wings/groups/squadrons to back them up. The 12M community has shrunk so significantly that they can’t help as much with filling OSS/other billets in lieu of 11Ms like they used to during years past. The ensuing inevitable clown show in the mobility community—due to senior leaders and their staffs being overworked—will provide all the more incentive for young 11Ms to get out at the earliest opportunity, thus perpetuating the cycle.

 

Meanwhile, the Air Force fiddles with the soup du jour (RPAs), while the overall pilot community burns. The 11M community, if 11F take rates and discussion all over this forum are any indication, isn’t the only one suffering from a lack of foresight from rated force managers.

 

 

TT

 

I know this anecdotal instead of numbers, but in my tanker squadron we've got more Lt Cols than Lts. We were all kicked off various staffs and sent back flying the line again.  I've been in units where the only Lt Col was the commander, and we have 3 in the squadron, and 4 more farmed out to wing and group jobs, in a CAF wing.  Our biggest gap seems to be the senior Captains, which I believe we have 1 or 2. 

Until they have a hard time filling IDE and SDE slots, I can't see how things are going to change retention-wise.  You will always have more then enough people who want to fly planes for a living.  The hard part is keeping them flying airplanes and not spending 96.9% of their time on DTS, MICT, 2 below PRFs, SAPR, Christmas party planning, and fire extinguisher CBTs. 

 

[TnkrToad]

I know this anecdotal instead of numbers, but in my tanker squadron we've got more Lt Cols than Lts. We were all kicked off various staffs and sent back flying the line again.  I've been in units where the only Lt Col was the commander, and we have 3 in the squadron, and 4 more farmed out to wing and group jobs, in a CAF wing.  Our biggest gap seems to be the senior Captains, which I believe we have 1 or 2. 

Until they have a hard time filling IDE and SDE slots, I can't see how things are going to change retention-wise.  You will always have more then enough people who want to fly planes for a living.  The hard part is keeping them flying airplanes and not spending 96.9% of their time on DTS, MICT, 2 below PRFs, SAPR, Christmas party planning, and fire extinguisher CBTs. 

 

Dude, as you noted, I'm going off of overall numbers from the final ACP report and personal experience which both indicate the Air Force is way short on O-5 mobility types. I'm not a personnelist, so take my rantings for what they're worth.

Good on you and your peers for getting back to flying billets as you approach retirement eligibility.

The numbers I've found simply don't support anything remotely close to an overage of senior 11Ms. There are, for instance, only 65 Lt Cols with 19 yrs service filling 11M billets right now--across the entire Air Force, in all mobility aircraft types. That doesn't seem to equate to excess capacity. I suspect, but have no way to verify, that the relative overmanning of O-5s at your location is due purely to your being in a CAF wing. I can only think of a couple places with an active duty tanker sq at a CAF base, and both are significant deviations from the MAF norm in multiple ways. Cynically, I see the circumstance at your base as an underhanded way to backfill 11F billets at your base at the expense of the tanker squadron:  

- The Air Force is short (verifiably so) of 11Fs

- Recognizing an opportunity, AFPC sends O-5 11Ms to the tanker sq, knowing that many of them will get farmed out to the group/wing (and likely not the most promotable jobs), thus sparing 11Fs to fly the line and/or fill group/wing staff jobs that matter and will get them promoted

- Sending all you experienced O-5 11Ms to the squadron (even though that's not where many of you are really working) means that, at least according to AFPC, you have more than enough experience in the squadron (you already have 7 O-5s "in the squadron") so you thus don't really need any more senior O-3 or O-4 types. Of course, 11M O-4s hardly exist if current take rates are any indication: most are in school, on staff, or deployed to buttkrakistan, so asking for more of them is a fool's errand; and the senior O-3s are likely stuck at Altus 

I'm not at a tanker base and it's entirely possible I'm reading the numbers all wrong--maybe the MAF community is awash in greybeard Lt Col types. I'd love to hear from someone at McConnell or Fairchild as to their current experience mix. 

Bringing this back to the ACP discussion, I suspect the crew mix at tanker wings will indicate that force shaping has been less than successful for the 11M community, and tankers in particular.

TT

[pawnman]

 

 

I didn't join strictly for the pay, but I also didn't sign up to do this stuff for free.

Edited November 8, 2015 by pawnman

[Duck]

Completely agree with you. Just like in business, it is cheaper to take care of your people all along the way than trying to bribe people to stay with you after the damage has been done.

All I am saying is it would be much cheaper in the long run for the Air Force to work on retaining people (I.e. Fixing the problems) when they are at the five year point of your career than putting all its cards into the bonus being the deciding factor.

It's like a long term girlfriend who has cheated and lied again and again saying I've changed take me back when you go to break up with her. I mean yeah the sex is sometimes pretty good but you can definitely get it other places without the drama.

Boom drop the mic...

[Duck]

All that to add, I am all for the bonus being 100k a year for those that stay in. You guys seriously deserve it with all the Air Force puts you through.

[Karl Hungus]

 

 

All that to add, I am all for the bonus being 100k a year for those that stay in. You guys seriously deserve it with all the Air Force puts you through.

 

General consensus amongst my peers is $50k a year, after taxes.  About $4k a month, versus the $1.5k a month now. 

Won't happen, of course.  We'll see stop loss before it moves beyond the inflation-correcting $35k/year. 

[ThreeHoler]

Only non-Reserve flyer O-5s around my base are Sq/CCs and two of four Sq/DOs, the Wg/IG, one random Sq ADO, one Reservist on AD, one MX Sq/CC, and the OG/CD. O-4s are pretty light too.

[ComingLeft]

I'd love to hear from someone at McConnell or Fairchild as to their current experience mix. 

Bringing this back to the ACP discussion, I suspect the crew mix at tanker wings will indicate that force shaping has been less than successful for the 11M community, and tankers in particular.

TT

Force shaping gutted the third assignment guys. You have a few true tanker guys, who returned from staff, but many O-4/5s are crossflow. They are good to have around but they lack the certainty in gk. Most defer to the second assignment Captain IPs because their gk is outdated or forgotten.

This manifests in copilots who are not ready for upgrade, Q3's, and where did you learn that moments. Many IPs flying the line are young.

[TnkrToad]

Force shaping gutted the third assignment guys. You have a few true tanker guys, who returned from staff, but many O-4/5s are crossflow. They are good to have around but they lack the certainty in gk. Most defer to the second assignment Captain IPs because their gk is outdated or forgotten.

This manifests in copilots who are not ready for upgrade, Q3's, and where did you learn that moments. Many IPs flying the line are young.

Only non-Reserve flyer O-5s around my base are Sq/CCs and two of four Sq/DOs, the Wg/IG, one random Sq ADO, one Reservist on AD, one MX Sq/CC, and the OG/CD. O-4s are pretty light too.

Thanks for the insight, guys . . . and there you go, folks--the results of misapplied rated force management. 

TT

[Jughead]

If not, what would I get as a RPA dude?

A kick in the groin coupled with feelings of desperation, abandonment, and hopelessness, if I've been reading this board correctly....

[pcola]

Expect 2016 ARP details mid-late next week

[icohftb]

Expect 2016 ARP details mid-late next week

if true wouldnt that be significantly earlier than the last 2 years? I thought they typically released the info late spring or summer timeframe.

[pcola]

if true wouldnt that be significantly earlier than the last 2 years? I thought they typically released the info late spring or summer timeframe.

Yes, I think you're right about that. I was surprised when I saw the email from the ARP program manager that said they were working to release the 2016 ARP guidelines o/a 8 Dec. I guess we'll see.

Could be a sign that there's more emphasis on the bonus this year than previous due to low take rates?? IDK.

[HU&W]

 

Yes, I think you're right about that. I was surprised when I saw the email from the ARP program manager that said they were working to release the 2016 ARP guidelines o/a 8 Dec. I guess we'll see.

 

Could be a sign that there's more emphasis on the bonus this year than previous due to low take rates?? IDK.

Could also be due to the changes in RPA ARP and the need to implement them quickly.

[BFM this]

If I'm reading the FY16 implementation message right, the requirement for less than 16YAS is gone.

...and still, no.

[Ram]

How bout a summary?

[BFM this]

Didn't see any other changes from last year. Early enrollment still offered, $25k/yr for either 5 years or up to 9 to get 20. Just getting the email (as I'm prior E) threw me off.