Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[Homestar]

The bonus basically doubled when they created the option to extend to 20 YAS. Making the payment $50k/year would effectively quadruple it from what it was two years ago.

But I get the sentiment.

[Guardian]

Didn't it use to be a bonus to 25 years or a 15 year bonus though?

[ThreeHoler]

Here is what y'all are missing: they finally admitted the target is retaining 65% of uncommitted pilots. They don't need all of you to take $35K. They don't want all of you to take $35K. They want the 10% they didn't get last year and the % they won't get this year.

The 15 year bonus you are probably thinking of is the CSB part of the CSB/REDUX retirement option. It is still out there and separate from the ACP. If you take the one time $30K bonus at 15 years, you will be paying for it until the day you die...leaving about $400K in retirement on the table.

Somehow the second half of my reply got cut off.

[Homestar]

2 hours ago, Guardian said:

Didn't it use to be a bonus to 25 years or a 15 year bonus though?

Bonuses pre-2000s may have been like that. Before my time. But today if you sign the bonus you could get up to 9 payments of $25k before taxes. That's $100k more than someone that signed the bonus in 2012. But, as we've all seen, not even that had been enough to slow the outflow. 

[Herk Driver]

Didn't it use to be a bonus to 25 years or a 15 year bonus though?

No. As with all things though it depends. The bonus in the 90's was much less generous and was only a 5 year deal. Somewhere along in the early 2000's it went to 25k and there were a few years that had an option to go to 20 and 25 YAS, IIRC. That was only for a few years.

You have seen the last couple of years where they have targeted certain groups with options beyond the 5 year bonus.

I can't give you the specific years that each of these was offered and I'm sure I missed a few but it all depends.

BL is that the bonus has stayed relatively flat for many years. It has only "doubled" for a corresponding double number of additional years of service. 35k is an attempt to at least reset for inflation. This is too little and too late.

[TnkrToad]

2 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

Here is what y'all are missing: they finally admitted the target is retaining 65% of uncommitted pilots. They don't need all of you to take $35K. They don't want all of you to take $35K. They want the 10% they didn't get last year and the % they won't get this year.

The bottom line is a failure to meet retention targets equates to a current (and to a greater extent future) leadership crisis. 

Big Blue will have the people it needs to fill cockpits, due to the 10-yr commitment. Line flyers will get crushed by the opstempo, but that's mostly a reality of fighting global wars, in an Air Force that the President/Congress are willing to adequately fund. Failure to meet retention targets means there won't be enough people with aviation backgrounds to fill staffs/serve as commanders/go to school/etc. Low ACP take rates equate to low pilot retention, which means flying sq/ccs, og/ccs, and on up are picked based on the best of who bothered to stay in. It further means those leaders are being advised by staffers who (1) are the best of those who didn't make the command cut line, and (2) aren't vitally needed in flying units.

If the Air Force fails to meet its ACP take rate targets, expect to see progressively worse decisions from our leaders. The great leaders who stay in--and there are many--will be overworked & likely burn out. The not as great ones, who in prior years would never have made the cut for command, will do the best they can...but again, their actions won't be as awesome as those of prior generations. The decisions they make, and the way their policies are implemented, will be made all the worse, because they'll get their advice from less-capable staff dudes (garbage in/garbage out) . . . and even if leaders' decisions are awesome, they'll be counting on less-capable lower-level commanders and staffers to carry out their policies. 

In my mind, the ACP take rate is a good way of gauging the likely quality of future Air Force leaders. Judging by last year, and the stats thus far this year, the outlook ain't all that great. Here's to hoping AF leaders will do everything they can to fix what is within their spans of control. Contrary to JQP's typical line of argument, though, I think Presidential/Congressional policy can be blamed for a substantial part of the current crisis. 

TT

[Gazmo]

"Hey USAF! 1998 called. They want their pilot retention tools back!".

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[TnkrToad]

48 minutes ago, Gazmo said:

"Hey USAF! 1998 called. They want their pilot retention tools back!".

Umm, not sure what you're getting at:

- 72k officers/363k total in the USAF to share the workload (vs. 61k officers/307k total now)? 

- "Feet on the ramp" and other coercive policies to "encourage" folks to stay on AD? 

I sure hope we don't get to the point where the take rate is the same as FY98 (28% that year). Good news is it's already a whopping 35%

TT

[Duck]

35%? Great it's just a stones throw to hit 65%!

[Gazmo]

"Hey USAF! 1998 called. They want their pilot retention tools back!".

Umm, not sure what you're getting at:

- 72k officers/363k total in the USAF to share the workload (vs. 61k officers/307k total now)? 

- "Feet on the ramp" and other coercive policies to "encourage" folks to stay on AD? 

I sure hope we don't get to the point where the take rate is the same as FY98 (28% that year). Good news is it's already a whopping 35%

TT

My point was that they didn't learn much from the past.

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[TnkrToad]

On March 5, 2016 at 11:12 PM, Gazmo said:

My point was that they didn't learn much from the past.

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But...the ACP has worked great, in the right conditions--all that's needed is for the FAA to increase the mandatory retirement age to 70, get rid of the 1,500 hour rule, and maybe have another recession or SARS-like scare.

I'm sure bumping the bonus up to $35k a year (with Congressional approval; I'm sure McCain will bend over backward to support the CSAF) will compensate for the fact none of the above is like to happen in the near term.

Cynicism aside, I don't know how the Air Force--in the near term--can unscrew about a quarter century of misguided personnel decisions. 

TT

[Guardian]

I say we add two pages worth of bullets requirements to the OPR and mandatory semi annual colonoscopies after you turn 23. And quarterly after 30. That could help solve things.

[ILoveScotch]

I know you guys are aircrew, and as aircrew, I'm fully aware that we bitch a lot.

But man, you guys REALLY bitch a lot.

I took the bonus. $155k/year is what I'd have to make on the outside to achieve the same take home pay. Is it the best job in the world? Probably not. But the airlines never appealed to me, and are full of their own pitfalls. I'm 35 years old and I make $155k/year. For a single guy, that's a lot of money. I'm fully aware a 365 has my name on it, at some point. That's fine, even more money to stash away (tax free).

The job isn't that bad. Some guys have it worse than others, sure. But at 20 years, those of us that stayed in get to retire and do what we really want to do with the rest of our lives. Not a bad deal if you ask me.

Figured I'd throw in an opinion that goes against the norm here. Bitch away...

[Jughead]

1 hour ago, Guardian said:

I say we add two pages worth of bullets requirements to the OPR and mandatory semi annual colonoscopies after you turn 23. And quarterly after 30. That could help solve things.

Shit, I was in my mid-forties by the time I retired.  What would your plan entail then--just leave the damn thing plugged in the whole time...? 

[Guardian]

If the tube fits

[Ram]

If the tube fits

Holy fuckin hell, another eagle driver classic quote about colons.

[BADFNZ]

I think Big Blue could easily fix part of the pilot retention problem by getting rid of all 365s and BS 179s.  The problem isn't the pay, it's the deployments.  When I'm not downrange, what other job is going to pay me close to $100k to fly once or twice a week, occasionally click through some CBTs about lesbian trafficking, and work on a few OPRs?  However, taking me away from my family for a year to have Afghanis try to kill me daily in a Cessna Caravan, or for 6 months to make coffee for some General at the CAOC, is not worth any amount of cash you can throw at me.  I have no issue going to war with my Sq to help kill bad guys, but when you throw in the other bullshit deployments that we're all subject to, it makes me want to punch the second I'm eligible.  Fix the miscellaneous deployments and you'll fix the retention problem.

[Guardian]

If the tube fits

Holy hell, another eagle driver classic quote about colons.

That's all you ever think about, huh Ram....colons. Ram ........colons. Hmmm. Ram colons.

And another assumption that I am an Eagle Driver......

[sqwatch]

If the tube fits

Holy hell, another eagle driver classic quote about colons.That's all you ever think about, huh Ram....colons. Ram ........colons. Hmmm. Ram colons.

And another assumption that I am an Eagle Driver......

As eagle legend has it, if you say "ram colon" three times in a dark alleyway behind chipndales, he will appear.

[Gazmo]

I say we add two pages worth of bullets requirements to the OPR and mandatory semi annual colonoscopies after you turn 23. And quarterly after 30. That could help solve things.

You mean those semi-annual colonoscopies aren't mandatory now? I have to have a serious conversation with my flight doc!

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[Gazmo]

I know you guys are aircrew, and as aircrew, I'm fully aware that we bitch a lot.

But man, you guys REALLY bitch a lot.

I took the bonus. $155k/year is what I'd have to make on the outside to achieve the same take home pay. Is it the best job in the world? Probably not. But the airlines never appealed to me, and are full of their own pitfalls. I'm 35 years old and I make $155k/year. For a single guy, that's a lot of money. I'm fully aware a 365 has my name on it, at some point. That's fine, even more money to stash away (tax free).

The job isn't that bad. Some guys have it worse than others, sure. But at 20 years, those of us that stayed in get to retire and do what we really want to do with the rest of our lives. Not a bad deal if you ask me.

Figured I'd throw in an opinion that goes against the norm here. Bitch away...

It ain't all about the money. The bonus concept is flawed in that the people who take the bonus are probably the ones who have no airline pilot aspirations and would stay whether there was a pilot bonus or not. You're right. We do make a lot of money. It's everything else that's chasing people away. Let's face it. You fly less and less after taking the bonus anyway. They offer a bonus to pilots to stay to fill command/staff billets, not keep experienced aircrew. Your crew dog hayday is between 0-2 and Jr. O-4.

Your view is common for a single dude with no kids. I'm at the point in my life where I want to get paid to sit at home 16-20+ days per month and when I do work, I just want to fly an airplane that's younger than me and after I land from a 3 or 4 day trip, I want to grab my little roller bag and be able to leave the job behind me for the next 4 or 5 days.

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[ILoveScotch]

1 hour ago, Gazmo said:

It ain't all about the money. The bonus concept is flawed in that the people who take the bonus are probably the ones who have no airline pilot aspirations and would stay whether there was a pilot bonus or not. You're right. We do make a lot of money. It's everything else that's chasing people away. Let's face it. You fly less and less after taking the bonus anyway. They offer a bonus to pilots to stay to fill command/staff billets, not keep experienced aircrew. Your crew dog hayday is between 0-2 and Jr. O-4.

Your view is common for a single dude with no kids. I'm at the point in my life where I want to get paid to sit at home 16-20+ days per month and when I do work, I just want to fly an airplane that's younger than me and after I land from a 3 or 4 day trip, I want to grab my little roller bag and be able to leave the job behind me for the next 4 or 5 days.

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I can understand your point of view. I've met several pilots in my career that just like flying, whatever kind of flying it is. For me, the fun is in actually doing something with the airplane. Point A to Point B stuff is just kind of a drag, personally.

Best of luck to all of you who pull chocks and separate. Really, I think the pilot shortage is a win/win for both groups -- those that stay in and those that decide to leave.

[NKAWTG]

March ACP numbers were posted.  Slight up tick to 37% overall from 35% in February.  Last year, about 69% of the bonus takers were early signers.  If that trend holds true, then this year's take rate will end up around 42%. 

I'm curious what the air staff target is, and what the "sky is falling" number is. 

[ILoveScotch]

1 hour ago, gearpig said:

Surely you understand that you're a single guy whose chief concern is weighing the amount of paycheck dollars against the ability to fly something other than A to B.

That is not even close to the calculus that most of the people who ultimately decide to leave the AF are having to work through in their decision. Apparently, the majority of people have determined that AADs, PME, AFPC, AEFs, 365s, 179s, OPRs, PRFs, CBTs, DTS, MilPDS, vMPF, PPTs, PDFs, DOCs, XLSs, ETCs isn't worth the current amount of incentive pay or yankin' and bankin'.

Point taken. I recognize a military career can be rough on the family. To be fair though, you can't blame the Air Force for that. Nature of the business... 

[Jaded]

Um, the amount of stupidity in the air force has nothing to do with it being the "Nature of the business."