Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[Jaded]

On 1/12/2017 at 7:28 PM, CrateOfThunder said:

I did a quick search and found the question posted, but not really answered...

Are VRAD (voluntary return to active duty) 11Fs ACP eligible? Apparently there are some unfilled 3 year orders available, but the VRAD AFI doesn't seem to address it directly. Thanks!

No.

[TnkrToad]

Bump--

       It's been 4 months since the FY closed out, but AFPC still has yet to post the FY16 Rated Retention Report. I have no way of knowing if this is due to ignorance, incompetence, or concern about publishing bad news. Observations:

- The early take rate for the FY17 eligibles was 28.4% (233/820). I reckon this covers all the IDE selects, folks in AF-sponsored Masters & Ph.D. programs, etc.--i.e., folks who were bound to stay in anyway

  -- These are overall stats; the 11F & 11B communities are pretty darn bad--19.7% early takers for fighters & 22.4% early takers for bombers. These stats pretty much match the early take rates from the prior FY, though

- We're a third of the way into the new FY, but I haven't heard anybody griping about Big Blue's delay in implementing this FY's policy

-- The lack of concern/discussion on this forum seems like a pretty clear negative indicator of interest in taking the bonus

After all the AF senior leaders' public handwringing over pilot shortages, it'll be interesting to see how much this FY's ACP offering changes.

TT

[ClearedHot]

There are some mitigating factors in that the PBR is VERY delayed and might not be submitted for another 60-90 days (typically the RMD is out by now.  With approval not likely until the summer it adds to the confusion.

Regardless, they are fucked...

Edited January 31, 2017 by ClearedHot

[TnkrToad]

2 hours ago, ClearedHot said:

There are some mitigating factors in the the PBR is VERY delayed and might not be submitted for another 60-90 days (typically the RMD is out by now.  With approval not likely until the summer it adds to the confusion.

Regardless, they are fucked...

Ouch. Confusion and delay are exactly what Big Blue needs to avoid when it comes to pilot retention initiatives; appreciate the insight.

[Guest]

There are plenty of things to blame on Air Force leadership, but pay and benefits are not one of them. That is squarely on Congress.  The reason the bonus didn't go up this year (FY2017) to 60k or even 48k was because Congress didn't approve it in the NDAA. The House wanted 60k, the Senate didn't want any increase at all past 25k. The compromise was an increase to 35k, which was already authorized for RPA pilots, but not other pilots. 
 

I think Air Force leadership is wholly to blame for the bonus not climbing more. Our previous CSAF didn't accurately convey the gravity of the pilot shortage to the Senate. As such, it's reasonable that they wouldn't get behind the House version of the bill.


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[ClearedHot]

11 minutes ago, BeerMan said:

A large number of Senators and Congressmen won't even entertain a meeting with a General unless they are a 4-star, and even then it depends on the individual Congressional member and the 4-star's job (COCOM, Service Chief) and what impact they have on the member's state.

Absolute truth....sickeningly true.

During my two sentences in the building my trips to the Hill were the least favorite experiences because of the inept and generally "what can you do for me and my district" attitude.  We repeatedly tried to explain complex issues that needed attention, serious thought, action and funding now to prevent future catastrophes.  More often than not the staffers (you rarely get to the elected official), looked at you with a blank stare.  McCain was one of the worst, anytime the Air Force proposed a basing action, regardless of where it was, he wanted to know why that function, unit, aircraft wasn't being moved to Arizona.

I feel like I need a shower just remembering it.

[tac airlifter]

8 hours ago, BeerMan said:

Although you may feel that "Our previous CSAF didn't accurately convey the gravity of the pilot shortage to the Senate" I'm here to tell you that I don't think that is true. 

What is your reasoning for thinking otherwise?

BeerMan

 

Good insights, thanks for the post.  However, when the former CSAF was directly asked about morale, his answer was pretty darn good.  In truth, it is not good and was not when he said those words, and he frankly should have known that.  Consequently, a lot of folks "feel" he was inaccurate in his representation of the gravity of challenges facing our force.

Im sure your observations are correct about D.C., and I'm sure the CSAF does a lot of things behind the scenes that we'll never know about.  Certainty the folks who worked for him were filled with a protective zealotry in every conversation.

 But in life, we get judged by what people see, even if they don't have the full picture.  It's unfair, but nonetheless is it true.  And what I saw from that CSAF was someone almost out the door, with nothing to lose politically that still stuck to how he felt instead of what the statistical indicators said.  He was incredibly fake in my single meeting with him, although I know that is anecdotal.  He literally lost and never acted on the hugely important QOL survey he told us to take.  His legacy, in my opinion, is one of talking a big game and failing to play with the heart we needed.  When I contrast his behavior with the line guys flying and fighting, it saddens me that he didn't appear to attack his job with the same selfless vigor I see from the the average mid career mid-strat IP.

[Gazmo]

Well on the upside to a pilot shortage, we just gave Iran a formal pee-pee smacking for their ongoing shenanigans...

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[Dogs-N-Guns]

myPers just updated the ARP page. FY2017 program expected release mid to late spring 2017.

[mcbush]

So probably June then, which is 9 months into the FY (not that it'll likely make much difference)

[icohftb]

For those people who are on the bonus, then get twice passed over, and refuse continuation, are they forced to separate? If so, how does the air force handle the bonus paid?

[ThreeHoler]

For those people who are on the bonus, then get twice passed over, and refuse continuation, are they forced to separate? If so, how does the air force handle the bonus paid?

It is in the reg. You pay it back for any unserved time...at the full rate.

Sure, you got $18,750 due to the tax of 25% but you owe the full $25,000 back (if you don't serve the year, i.e. Get out the day after getting paid your latest installment).

[icohftb]

And then I suppose you have to amend your taxes? Also any idea how much time they give you to pay it back?

[Oldtanker]

https://www.stripes.com/air-force-chief-seeks-to-lower-commercial-flight-hour-requirement-1.452920

CSAF taking the side of minimum wage  paying regionals to fight 1500 hour rule.  

[Swizzle]

Why the F' don't they just add TSP matching to any AFSC 11X or 12X or Aviation bonus payment used for TSP....the services are allowed to match....

It'd be a small upfront payment from Mother Blue for a possibly big benefit for aviators later when we're old and deaf from flying her planes.

 

[TMILL]

Why the F' don't they just add TSP matching to any AFSC 11X or 12X or Aviation bonus payment used for TSP....the services are allowed to match....
It'd be a small upfront payment from Mother Blue for a possibly big benefit for aviators later when we're old and deaf from flying her planes.
 

That's valid. I would love to get matching contributions. Would pay dividends on the far end.


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[ViperMan]

4 hours ago, Swizzle said:

Why the F' don't they just add TSP matching to any AFSC 11X or 12X or Aviation bonus payment used for TSP....the services are allowed to match....

It'd be a small upfront payment from Mother Blue for a possibly big benefit for aviators later when we're old and deaf from flying her planes.

Because then they could never take it away.

[flyusaf83]

I'm curious... how much would the bonus have to be to keep you in, assuming the institutional problems of the AF don't get any better? 

For me, in my current community, it would have to be in the neighborhood of $75k/yr for 8 yrs and half of that as a lump sum. 

That could change. However, I have a suspicion that if the AF wants to simply throw money at this problem, they'll have to really open the checkbook.

[Fuzz]

They're going to have to open it up before the commitment is up if they want people take the bonus to stay. 10 years of BS and then they dangle some money in front of you to put up with 5 more. People have long made up their minds by the time that point comes along in their career. Increasing flight pay might help make the 10 year ADSC a little more palatable by the end of it. 

[Spartacus]

2 hours ago, flyusaf83 said:

I'm curious... how much would the bonus have to be to keep you in, assuming the institutional problems of the AF don't get any better? 

For me, in my current community, it would have to be in the neighborhood of $75k/yr for 8 yrs and half of that as a lump sum. 

That could change. However, I have a suspicion that if the AF wants to simply throw money at this problem, they'll have to really open the checkbook.

I was told by a very high ranking officer about two weeks before the NDAA came out that the bonus would be $48K. That might have kept me around. If they would have made $60K happen I most likely would not be leaving. 

It's not about the money for me, but how much I think the Air Force values me. When I hear $60K, then $48K and then finally $35K ends up being the number right after a senior officer tells me different that sends a message. Either they don't value us enough to open their wallets, or they can't get the dollar amount higher even with a major retention problem. In either case I got the message loud and clear and I feel that I've made the right decision to leave.

[ThreeHoler]

I was told by a very high ranking officer about two weeks before the NDAA came out that the bonus would be $48K. That might have kept me around. If they would have made $60K happen I most likely would not be leaving. 
It's not about the money for me, but how much I think the Air Force values me. When I hear $60K, then $48K and then finally $35K ends up being the number right after a senior officer tells me different that sends a message. Either they don't value us enough to open their wallets, or they can't get the dollar amount higher even with a major retention problem. In either case I got the message loud and clear and I feel that I've made the right decision to leave.

I heard similar from someone high up at HAF. If you read the Senate markup you'll see that the Senate shot down the $48K because they didn't believe there was a retention problem.

[Kiloalpha]

15 minutes ago, ThreeHoler said:

I heard similar from someone high up at HAF. If you read the Senate markup you'll see that the Senate shot down the $48K because they didn't believe there was a retention problem.

 

This. Senators don't care about the true manning state, nor is any self serving GO/O-6 going to tell them the sky is falling. Fiddling... while Rome is burning.

[ViperMan]

If it was X-dollars pegged to inflation/pay raises, meaning they recognize its value decreases as other pays increase, I would have taken that as a signal that they realized there was a systematic issue with the bonus of the last 25 years - as it is, I don't really any positive signals being sent with the current suggested bonus levels.

[Gazmo]

This. Senators don't care about the true manning state, nor is any self serving GO/O-6 going to tell them the sky is falling. Fiddling... while Rome is burning.

If it ain't bringing billions of dollars worth of business to the states these Senators represent, they don't care about it.

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[di1630]

I just made a spreadsheet of staying until 28 years (my current bonus expiring at 20 Yas) as an O-5 or getting out at 20 and working for my "desired" airline which has much lower pay but based where I wish to live.

The USAF would have to extend my current $25K just to compete.

Add in 12 days a month off and no threats of 6 mos away/365....no brainer

My magic number is I'd consider staying for $60k without deployment exemptions/homesteading.

$45k with some stability measures.




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