Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[RTB]

8 minutes ago, flyusaf83 said:

Getting chiefed for having your hands in your jacket pockets when being forced to do a FOD walk at 0700L, 7 hours after my flight landed, when it's 10 F outside (recently happened to me).

That is so fucked up on so many levels.  

[Guardian]

That is so ed up on so many levels.  

What did you do when you got chiefed?


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[RTB]

Just now, Guardian said:

What did you do when you got chiefed?


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strange question.  Unrelated to my comment.

I was saying that it's fucked up that the dude got chiefed.  It's fucked up that he was forced to do a FOD walk at 0700 after landing at midnight.  It's fucked up that pilots were mandated to participate in the FOD walk in the first place.  It's fucked up that his leadership didn't tell him to just go home because he just landed. 

But to answer your question, my reaction to getting chiefed varied based on the situation, the alleged infraction, and my general attitude at the time of said chiefing.  The unfortunate practice of Chiefing didn't really gain much traction in my neck of the woods until I was an FGO.  Usually, I responded with something like "Fantastic, thanks for letting me know!" and then carried on about my business.  

[Gazmo]

We are our own best enemy. As aircrew, it'd be safe to say 96.69% of us are Type-A, workaholic, do what it takes to get shit done (while adhering to tech order and regulatory guidance) kinda people. It's pretty much what got us here. There is no other option, but to get the job done no matter what the cost (sanity, family life, off time, etc) no matter what time of day. It's in our culture and most of you've probably been in long enough to realize this, but the standard we're held to in the USAF and the stardard we maintain no matter what the cost is nearly unmatched by any other community in the service. You can remember that and take pride in that every time you get up in the morning and slap your wings on a fresh bag. Not everyone can do what we do. Some have tried and a lot have failed, which pissed me off when comm weenies want to wear wings to be part of the winged club. off! I don't care what job you do in the military, but do it like your life or someone elses life depends on it like we have to. Like Mx has to. Like AFE has to. Whether it's weapons on target, gas in the air, cargo over a drop zone or the gammut of other fine flying missions we have in the service, we maintain a standard. A very high one and it's taken for granted by leadership. It becomes the norm and we're expected to eat shit and like it. Yeah, there are other communities that have it as bad or worse. I believe it and I don't discount their misery. Everyone has a voice. If you want a chang, you pretty much have three options. You can talk with your feet (there is nothing wrong with this if that is your decision). You can take the bonus, stay and do everything in your power to try to change things for the better. This, unfortunately takes a lot of drive that at this point, most of us don't have. I believe this duty needs to be taken on by our young CGO's. Unfortunately this is the only thing they know. Lastly, take the bonus, stay and STFU. Bitching about things on here, to your wife, in the squadron bar (if you're still allowed to have one) or on the road in front of the young'ns does nothing (although it is nice to vent). We are a crippling force if we get our voices heard in mass. People are walking. That is a very effective tool for gettings things changed. Leadership has no choice. You can make shit roll up hill if you push hard enough.

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[BFM this]

[Guardian]

Olson Johnson: [after Gabby Johnson's speech] Now who can argue with that? I think we're all indebted to Gabby Johnson for clearly stating what needed to be said. I'm particulary glad that these lovely children were here today to hear that speech. Not only was it authentic frontier gibberish, it expressed a courage little seen in this day and age.
[townspeople murmur and nod in approval]
Olson Johnson: What are we made of? Our fathers came across the prairies, fought Indians, fought drought, fought locusts, fought Dix... remember when Richard Dix came in here and tried to take over this town? Well, we didn't give up then, and by gum, we're not going to give up now! Go big blue!


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[Ram]

The greatest movie of all time.  Harrumph!

[Guest No2bonus]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/air-force-pay-pilots-bonus-incentives-to-stay-in-uniform-2017-3

I read in this forum that 1-2 year bonuses would be a great idea. This article talks about the AF considering the idea. 

"Grosso told the House subcommittee members that the branch was also considering one- and two-year extension deals for pilots, in addition to the current five- and nine-year extensions on offer."

[Warrior]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/air-force-pay-pilots-bonus-incentives-to-stay-in-uniform-2017-3

I read in this forum that 1-2 year bonuses would be a great idea. This article talks about the AF considering the idea. 

"Grosso told the House subcommittee members that the branch was also considering one- and two-year extension deals for pilots, in addition to the current five- and nine-year extensions on offer."

Did you just like your own post?

[argo]

32 minutes ago, Warrior said:

Did you just like your own post?

Just like Facebook, gotta look cool in front of all these cool guys lol

[BADFNZ]

40 minutes ago, Warrior said:

Did you just like your own post?

I fixed the glitch,

[Guest No2bonus]

3 hours ago, Warrior said:

Did you just like your own post?

Initially, I did fall asleep with my phone in my hand after popping a pain killer (DNIF). I won't post and do meds again. 

I think a shot from the base ops bar of alcohol (once clear of DNIF) or a ketchup, mustard, and soy sauce mixture will help make amends due to my negligence I hope. 

Break Break

You guys think the one to two year extensions will occur? I turned the bonus down and AFPC tried to tell me the bonus may be lower if I become eligible again. I didn't bite. All of my buddies flying for major airlines told me not to take the money. I am glad I listened and I definitely referenced some great information in this forum prior to making my decision. I would gladly accept a one to two year extension so I fall within my retirement window of 3 1/2 years. Asking me for 5 years is too much.

Edited April 5, 2017 by No2bonus

[Guest No2bonus]

14 minutes ago, gearpig said:

Has AFPC always attempted to "sell" the bonus to eligibles? Given the current state of things, it's sounds as if they're using deceptive salesmen practices by threatening you with a lower bonus in the future.

In all honesty, the individual sending me the emails seemed like his office is under some pressure. The AF in general is feeling the pressure to retain aviators. Not to mention he is in a one man deep shop from what I believe. He kept ccing some lady on all of our email exchanges. I assume it was his boss. I didn't give them a reason why I said no to the bonus. 

[xaarman]

https://www.c-span.org/video/?426158-1/military-officials-explain-reasons-behind-pilot-shortage&start=1672

 

The raw footage, Lt Gen Grosso says the 1-2 year obligations is for the USAF to regain credibility in the squadron as a "try it and see all the positive changes we're making"/revitalizing the squadron per CSAF direction.

I watched the whole thing, some interesting points... there's no proof that pilots taking the bonus were going to stay in anyways, but 96% of the people who don't take the bonus separate. Also, this quip:

Starts at 25:59 -
OKAY, I PARTICULARLY WANTED TO TALK ABOUT NON-MONETARY INDUCEMENTS. AND I NOTED THAT IN THE REPORT, THERE WAS A REFERENCE MADE TO 260 DAYS AWAY DURING DEPLOYMENT FOR SOME OF THESE AVIATORS AND 110 DAYS AWAY EVEN WHEN YOU ARE ON HOME TEMP RARE DUTY. THOSE ARE LONG STRETCHES AWAY. AND IN YOUR ACTUAL STATEMENT, GENERAL GROSSO, THERE'S A CHART HERE THAT SHOWS, ACTUALLY THE RANKING OF THE RULE OF CIVILIAN JOBS IS MUCH LOWER THAN ADDITIONAL DUTIES WHICH WAS AT 37% AND MAINTAINING WORK/LIFE BALANCE AND MEETING FAMILY COMMITMENTS WHICH WAS AT 31%. ABILITY OF CIVILIAN JOBS WAS AT 24%. SO I THINK THE LURE OF COMMERCIAL AIRLINE JOBS WHILE IT DOES HAVE SOME ALLURE, I THINK ADDRESSING THOSE TOP TWO WOULD BE SIGNIFICANT SO TO EACH OF YOU, I WOULD LIKE TO ASK THE QUESTION IN A MINUTE AND 36. WHAT IF ANYTHING YOU ARE DOING TO TRYING TO ADDRESS THE NON-MONETARY ISSUES. 
 

So in another forum, there's a debate of would people really be leaving if airlines didn't pay so well. Who knows, but Lt Gen Grosso said there is a direct correlation between airline hiring and pilot retention.

Edited April 5, 2017 by xaarman

[Gazmo]

If all things were equal and the airlines paid the same exact salary as what you could make on Active Duty or as an AGR in the ANG/AFRC, we'd still see people bailing. I would still not hesitate to make the jump. I'm an ART and I can live comfortably on less than what I make now. The ultimate ability to make near $300,000 per year to work 10 days per month is icing on the cake.

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[Ram]

The military retention problem will end as soon as our entire defense establishment shows senior CGOs and junior FGOs that it cares about ONE THING ONLY:

WINNING.

 

I'm talking everything from MWS selection, development, fielding, and utilization.  All the personnel woes.  Training for combat in a way that matters, and recognizing those who do well.  Executing our mission in ways which is meaningful, in conflicts chosen smartly / fought smartly / with an end state actually in mind (and attainable).

 

MAKE US WIN AGAIN AND WE WILL WORK FOR FREE.  I WANT TO PLAY FOR A WINNING TEAM, but more importantly, I WANT TO PLAY FOR A TEAM THAT CARES ABOUT WINNING.

 

Seriously, it's that simple.

[Champ Kind]

Initially, I did fall asleep with my phone in my hand after popping a pain killer (DNIF). I won't post and do meds again. 
I think a shot from the base ops bar of alcohol (once clear of DNIF) or a ketchup, mustard, and soy sauce mixture will help make amends due to my negligence I hope. 
Break Break
You guys think the one to two year extensions will occur? I turned the bonus down and AFPC tried to tell me the bonus may be lower if I become eligible again. I didn't bite. All of my buddies flying for major airlines told me not to take the money. I am glad I listened and I definitely referenced some great information in this forum prior to making my decision. I would gladly accept a one to two year extension so I fall within my retirement window of 3 1/2 years. Asking me for 5 years is too much.

The bonus amount being lower if offered again after the FY of your ADSC expiration isn't new. The last couple of years the "Uncommitted eligible" bonus was a decent chunk less than the standard ARP. $15K/year for five years versus $25K/year for 5 years or to 20 YAS.

[Guest]

6 hours ago, Ram said:

The military retention problem will end as soon as our entire defense establishment shows senior CGOs and junior FGOs that it cares about ONE THING ONLY:

WINNING.

 

I'm talking everything from MWS selection, development, fielding, and utilization.  All the personnel woes.  Training for combat in a way that matters, and recognizing those who do well.  Executing our mission in ways which is meaningful, in conflicts chosen smartly / fought smartly / with an end state actually in mind (and attainable).

 

MAKE US WIN AGAIN AND WE WILL WORK FOR FREE.  I WANT TO PLAY FOR A WINNING TEAM, but more importantly, I WANT TO PLAY FOR A TEAM THAT CARES ABOUT WINNING.

 

Seriously, it's that simple.

I hear what you are saying (choir member), but when was the last time we won (I.e. "Chosen smartly...end state actually in mind")?

 

[Gazmo]

WWII...

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[Guest]

10 minutes ago, Gazmo said:WWII...

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Then the AF is proper focked!

[Ram]

27 minutes ago, 1111 said:

I hear what you are saying (choir member), but when was the last time we won (I.e. "Chosen smartly...end state actually in mind")?

 

Gulf War I is a pretty good starting point.

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, Ram said:

Gulf War I is a pretty good starting point.

That equals to 26 years of LOSING!

[Gazmo]

That equals to 26 years of LOSING!

Yeah well our goals during Desert Storm were pretty clearly defined and of course we had Gen. H. Norman Schwarzkopf. We also hadn't spent the previous 16 yrs wasting money, resources and time in that shit hole before we went over and handed Saddam his own ass in less than 6 weeks.

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[Guest No2bonus]

8 hours ago, Ram said:

The military retention problem will end as soon as our entire defense establishment shows senior CGOs and junior FGOs that it cares about ONE THING ONLY:

WINNING.

 

I'm talking everything from MWS selection, development, fielding, and utilization.  All the personnel woes.  Training for combat in a way that matters, and recognizing those who do well.  Executing our mission in ways which is meaningful, in conflicts chosen smartly / fought smartly / with an end state actually in mind (and attainable).

 

MAKE US WIN AGAIN AND WE WILL WORK FOR FREE.  I WANT TO PLAY FOR A WINNING TEAM, but more importantly, I WANT TO PLAY FOR A TEAM THAT CARES ABOUT WINNING.

 

Seriously, it's that simple.

You will need to change out leadership in order to make this happen. I have noticed some of our leaders at the top are human and act like politicians. Ultimately, they do what's best for themselves in the long run. 

There was no way to win in Afghanistan. You can't blow up every Taliban member. Their sons and daughters witness their deaths which solidifies a younger generation of Taliban. 

I remember talking to a JTAC via chat while orbiting. He told me they gave food, candy, and ice cream to a bunch of kids in Afghanistan. After the goods ran out, the kids started to flick the troops off and tell them they hate Americans and love the Taliban. In my opinion, you cannot conquer an uneducated society, especially when you are viewed as an occupying force. Your ultimate demise is solidified in stone going against a society who is uneducated, born to fight, and will never surrender.

Edited April 5, 2017 by No2bonus

[matmacwc]

I think we just decided to kill them over there versus having to do it on 'Merican soil.