Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[hatedont]

5 hours ago, flyusaf83 said:

Nice to see a GO that at least somewhat gets it.  Now let's find one that not only targets how we do orders, but goes after SAPR, fire extinguisher training, LGBTQ awareness training, endless commanders calls, UA monitor duty, etc.

Here is a new one at my base.  We have to have a cop with an M-4 at the jet whenever we have a static display for some asinine reason.  Well, our SF now say they don't have the manning for that.  The solution? Send aircrew through M-4 training and have us guard our own jets as an additional duty.

I shit you not. 

Pilots will guard your own planes. And I will need you to come in on Sunday night to fuel your own jets for Monday too.

Airmen will cook their own meals in the chow hall. 

All janitorial duties will fall upon the squadrons.

And send me 2 more of your best execs.

Expect Stop Loss Monday.

Have a great weekend. That is all. 

Signed Col P. Ennis Sackrider

Edited May 20, 2017 by hatedont

[flyusaf83]

32 minutes ago, hatedont said:

Pilots will guard your own planes. And I will need you to come in on Sunday night to fuel your own jets for Monday too.

Airmen will cook their own meals in the chow hall. 

All janitorial duties will fall upon the squadrons.

And send me 2 more of your best execs.

That is all. 

Signed Col P. Ennis Sackrider

What bothers me the most about having aircrew guard our own jets is that it's a clear admission that the policy of guarding jets with weapons is unnecessary. If it were necessary, you wouldn't ask someone with no combat or police training to do it.  You would have SF do it. 

But do we change the policy? Nope. We just add another additional duty for aircrew, because that's the type of easy and gutless call that Air Force leaders make.  

 

Edited May 20, 2017 by flyusaf83

[17D_guy]

6 hours ago, DirtyFlightSuit said:

Sorry to break it to you but Gen Nowland does not get it, he proved that a few weeks ago at Randolph during his retention briefing.

Elaborate?  Or was this the brief spoken about with someone from A3?

[hatedont]

4 hours ago, flyusaf83 said:

If it were necessary, you wouldn't ask someone with no combat or police training to do it.  

Does combat hours count? Most members in SF probably never left the wire even if they did deploy.

[DirtyFlightSuit]

11 hours ago, 17D_guy said:

Elaborate?  Or was this the brief spoken about with someone from A3?

The very same brief, he arrived and made it clear with his lengthy introduction that our issue is that we the pilot force are unaware of all the great "initiatives" that are being undertaken that have made our lives amazing and we are all angry because we are simply ignorant of these great things.  He actually believed we gave two shits about things big daddy Air Force was "looking at", or "worked on" as opposed to any thing even remotely concrete. Even worse (in my opinion) his biggest plea for help beyond a very honest "we need you" was his appeal to our patriotism.  I'm sorry that me signing up for 10 years was not patriotic enough for you.  Even worse that some how our political military engagement should make us want to continue to serve because dropping "150 bombs a day", as if we haven't been heavily engaged for the last +16 years without any end in sight is going to appeal to my sense of duty. 

When he was finally asked questions his first response was to lash back angrily, when he was shot down for that and the room essentially went hostile on him he showed his ignorance of many of larger issues being faced.  Even worse from my point of view was his response to anything he remotely agreed on was "well we will look at that." Followed by explaining to us all how that won't change because the bureaucracy will protect its bloat (in reference to reducing worthless deployment tasking's), or that he has tried and failed to make changes.  Real inspiring that the machine is to big to change. 

But it is okay, he told us to stop signing our OPRs because no one ever gets feed back because you know that'll end well for any one. 

 

[Homestar]

Reminds me of the A/TA pilot shortage seminar at last year's convention.

[Guardian]

Like I told you guys earlier fingers goldfien is a self interested douche bag that is so far from getting it that I almost (read almost) wish for the days of schwartzy back. Scratch that. But fingers. (Read buttFingers) is purposely ignorant and not willingly ready to accept blame. Nothing will change for the better until he is gone. Why do you think he was promoted to four star so quickly. Because he is great at towing the line. He should just go enjoy retirement with his failure of an general eagle pilot brother.


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[DirtyFlightSuit]

Can't say any thing about Fingers, but was remarking mostly on Gen Nowland and some ones comment about how "he gets it" and how he doesn't get it.

[Guardian]

So we are unpatriotic less than one percent of our country for stepping up in the first place and serving?


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[17D_guy]

1 hour ago, DirtyFlightSuit said:

Followed by explaining to us all how that won't change because the bureaucracy will protect its bloat...Real inspiring that the machine is to big to change. 

But it is okay, he told us to stop signing our OPRs because no one ever gets feed back because you know that'll end well for any one. 

 

I love the dichotomy of these 2 statements.  Thanks for the re-cap.

[Duck]

Typical AF... it's OUR fault retention is so low. WE aren't patriotic enough. Fvck them. They created this $hit and I am happy to watch the whole damn thing burn.

The AF screwed up when they went from 6 year to eventually 10 year commitments. At 6-8 years, a typical pilot is finishing up his second tour. The AF had to make sure to retain pilots their whole career. The 10 year has bred laziness and lack of critical thought on how to keep people after their 10 year sentence is up. The AFs strategy hasn't even been "take care of dudes when they are 7-day opt eligible", but instead their strategy is "we don't negotiate with terrorists". Lol what a joke. They all get what they deserve. I only wish the @sshats responsible would be held accountable. People need to be lined up and shot for this $hit show.




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[pilotguy]

I think they should get rid of the bonus at the end of UPT ADSC. Instead they should enact a rule that allows pilots to fully retire after 15 years (basically 3 years after UPT ADSC expires)

I'd give 3 more years to get a full retirement. 8 no, but 3 would make people think.  Puts a typical dude at age 38 when they get out with a full retirement.  Bet the "take rate" doubles...

It would at least buy them some time.

[DirtyFlightSuit]

39 minutes ago, pilotguy said:

I think they should get rid of the bonus at the end of UPT ADSC. Instead they should enact a rule that allows pilots to fully retire after 15 years (basically 3 years after UPT ADSC expires)

I'd give 3 more years to get a full retirement. 8 no, but 3 would make people think.  Puts a typical dude at age 38 when they get out with a full retirement.  Bet the "take rate" doubles...

It would at least buy them some time.

The problem isn't lack of a good idea, or any idea for that matter.  The problem is complete inaction.  Aside from an almost worthless list of additional duties being eliminated, a paltry bonus increase, and the ability to roll up sleeves there has been no actual steps taken to attempt and solve this problem.  Gen Nowland repeated over and over their 27 initiatives they are "working" on, and even if they were great ideas they don't matter because they are not yet implemented.  They need change yesterday,even a year from now is way too late for my year group and those around me that will have already set their vector on getting out. 

[pilotguy]

5 minutes ago, DirtyFlightSuit said:

The problem isn't lack of a good idea, or any idea for that matter.  The problem is complete inaction.  Aside from an almost worthless list of additional duties being eliminated, a paltry bonus increase, and the ability to roll up sleeves there has been no actual steps taken to attempt and solve this problem.  Gen Nowland repeated over and over their 27 initiatives they are "working" on, and even if they were great ideas they don't matter because they are not yet implemented.  They need change yesterday,even a year from now is way too late for my year group and those around me that will have already set their vector on getting out. 

Totally agreed here

[FlyinGrunt]

I was trying to think of a concise way to explain the reasoning of folks like me to "leadership" the other day, esp wrt voting with one's feet.  Here's what I came up with: "At this point, I am thoroughly convinced that I do more for my fellow pilots and the organization as a loss to be felt than a contribution to be made."

I don't know if that sounds accurate for any of y'all, and I do not think that Big Blue will actually feel my loss one iota.  But when that statement is applied collectively to the huge number of us that I believe feel this way, I think it captures the situation quite well.

[MooseAg03]

I was trying to think of a concise way to explain the reasoning of folks like me to "leadership" the other day, esp wrt voting with one's feet.  Here's what I came up with: "At this point, I am thoroughly convinced that I do more for my fellow pilots and the organization as a loss to be felt than a contribution to be made."
I don't know if that sounds accurate for any of y'all, and I do not think that Big Blue will actually feel my loss one iota.  But when that statement is applied collectively to the huge number of us that I believe feel this way, I think it captures the situation quite well.

I'll second that. I'm to the point of probably 7 day opting my Return to Fly assignment from RPAs because they are taking too damn long to get me out of here. I'd rather have to fly for a regional than extend my commitment at this point.


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[Bender]

I'll second that. I'm to the point of probably 7 day opting my Return to Fly assignment from RPAs because they are taking too damn long to get me out of here. I'd rather have to fly for a regional than extend my commitment at this point.
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:( The Air Force seems so ed.

Bendy


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[ViperStud]

3 hours ago, DirtyFlightSuit said:

The problem isn't lack of a good idea, or any idea for that matter.  The problem is complete inaction.

Also, and I think the bigger problem, a la Nowland:

These managers are so used to being fellated by their coattail mafia that they still think their words/promises are powerful. I really thought/hoped Welsh would be different only to see him accomplish nothing and sell out post-retirement. Dudes with birds/stars on their shoulders no longer get the benefit of the doubt. We don't care what's being "worked" because we've seen management fail sooooo much - all I believe is what I observe. So, until it actually happens, I simply know you're full of shit. 

Nowland getting up in front of everyone and trying to sell us on their "wish list" just shows that he still thinks a general's words are meaningful. Sorry dude, you guys lost that credibility a LONG time ago.    They don't recognize that yet, and won't accept it for a very long time. 

[Seriously]

On 5/20/2017 at 10:30 AM, hatedont said:

Pilots will guard your own planes. And I will need you to come in on Sunday night to fuel your own jets for Monday too.

 

 was once told by a transient guy that I had to hook up the fuel hose to the airplane because they (transient alert) weren't allowed to touch another wing's aircraft for liability reasons. I couldn't help but laugh in his face at the absurdity. 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Seriously said:

 was once told by a transient guy that I had to hook up the fuel hose to the airplane because they (transient alert) weren't allowed to touch another wing's aircraft for liability reasons. I couldn't help but laugh in his face at the absurdity. 

I've definitely had this experience before.  Fuel Truck guy at Bagram wouldn't hook up our jet (what would you say you do here???).  At Nellis, I had a fuel truck who wouldn't even drive up without having someone to marshal them in.

[Runr6730]

This thread and the "What's wrong with the AF" thread are rapidly converging.

[Guardian]

Is there a correlation?


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[MooseAg03]

This thread and the "What's wrong with the AF" thread are rapidly converging.

Maybe if they'd actually get off their asses and offer a bonus program, this thread could stay on topic.


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[Oldtanker]

27 minutes ago, MooseAg03 said:

Maybe if they'd actually get off their asses and offer a bonus program, this thread could stay on topic.


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^^ THIS   

What is the new bonus policy & when will it be released?  All talk, no action.

If pilots used bureaucracy/lack of support as an excuse, planes would never get off the ground. Why can't they get anything done in a timely manner?  

Maybe they need 5 more working groups to discuss the meeting schedule, approved acronym list & appropriate letterhead.

[ThreeHoler]

^^ THIS   
What is the new bonus policy & when will it be released?  All talk, no action.
If pilots used bureaucracy/lack of support as an excuse, planes would never get off the ground. Why can't they get anything done in a timely manner?  
Maybe they need 5 more working groups to discuss the meeting schedule, approved acronym list & appropriate letterhead.

You can't offer a new bonus on a CR. The FY17 budget needs to be approved before they can release it. Same thing happened right before sequestration.