Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[BFM this]

On 6/11/2017 at 11:21 AM, sqwatch said:

So it's about the money?
 

It's not just about the money.  Money is in line with the rest of the issues plaguing this job.  Money is just the easiest, most tangible, identifiable symptom of a broader malaise.  My thesis is this: if there was a way to graph other QoL (home and work) indicators, they would roughly correlate. 

We are paid substantially less than we were roughly twenty years ago, in two specific categories:

1) Flight pay

2) ACP

Both of those pays have remained stagnant to inflation for over two decades.  $1k / $35k doesn't nearly cover the spread.  If those two pays were at least adjusted for inflation, the remaining issues would at least change in perspective.  But until that happens, we are essentially negotiating low cost items.  Pushing sleeves up?  Ancillary duties?  Fewer/clickable CBTs?  These are just low/no cost gimmes.

[nsplayr]

Captain Goldfein's > 6 year ACIP tier paid $650 per month in 1990 while he was flying Vipers at Shaw. That's exactly the same as it pays for Captain Bagadonuts today in 2017.

Until now-General Goldfein can secure an ACIP of at least $1,216 for that same tier today, the Air Force and Congress are kidding themselves when they say they're trying hard to retain mission-critical aviators. Welcome to America, dollars are a sign of what we value, and we're valued a lot less as an aviator than our predecessors were in 1990. 27 years of purchasing power lost due to inflation is a real bitch when you actually stop and think about it.

Increasing the bonus $10K per year? ACIP staying the same unless I missed the memo on that one? Good luck with that gentlemen.

Edited June 15, 2017 by nsplayr

[Jathor]

3 hours ago, sling-it-17 said:

Yes in regards to its the quickest way to show real appreciation and possibly signal real change is coming. It will "buy" some time while the other initiatives are being fixed. Its not QOL/QOS fixes OR a better bonus, but this is how some try to frame the argument. I want big blue to show how valued aviators are and also fix the squadron/ops issues (but this one will take some time to see). But to someone's point earlier, it is very clear they are trying to do the bare minimum to just get over the min retention metric they are trying to hit. Crazy talk to get too many people willing to stay in!!! Cant have that! But with the current environment it actually is crazy to think that we would come close to have pilots wanting to stay in over the min retention level needed. In my squadron, of a lot of guys coming up on the decision (20-30 Majors) , I would say 10-15% are saying they are staying in. I hear some saying maybe a 1 yr bonus concurrent with their PCS ADSC. THAT'S IT. My advice is to everyone to not take the 5-9 yr bonus because (take the 1-2 with the option of a re-up bonus), the AF is going to have to come to the table with more in the next 2-3 yrs bc this is weak and has not even caught up to inflation---- if your wanting/willing to stay in that is! 

Money is not everything, I agree--but last time I checked pilots aren't jumping ship to make pennies in 3 yrs with the airlines....more to the tune of 150-200k a yr. Money will always be in the equation when people have families to think about. Especially when they have already served their country for 12 years.

Don't forget that that reup will come with its own ADSC.  Early eligible found that out the hard way this year.  Sign up early you can get renegotiate, but it adds an extra year of service commitment without the extra year of pay.  5 years at $25k = $125k.  5 years at $30k + an extra one year service commitment without extra pay comes out to an amazing $25k per year.  They got us good.  Dirty pool AF.

Edited June 15, 2017 by Jathor

[xaarman]

Speaking of general discontent, what's the latest in the RPA world? 2014-2015 there was talk of the massive 18X exodus, how are they doing? 

Did the extra cash buy them morale? Did going from 65 to 60 CAPs solve the work load? There was all the talk, but haven't heard much in the last year+.

Edited June 15, 2017 by xaarman

[MooseAg03]

That's because the FTU is cranking out RPA pilots like mad. Our manning right now is as healthy as it has ever been on the pilot side. Alpha tour guys are being let go back to their MWS. We'll see over the next year when the 18Xers start hitting the end of their commitment how many stay. I know of 2 who took the bonus and one of those was prior rated.


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[Termy]

I honestly think some of this has to do with the age of the people making these decisions. It is very difficult for people to place inflation into real context. I've had the following conversation with my dad:

"Sierra Nevada is $14 a 12 pack?! That's so expensive!"

"uh dad. Do the math on what beer cost 20 years ago"

thinks......

"you're right. Bargain "

[FlyinGrunt]

We'll see who puts their money where their math is at KCVS, but the stated intentions thus far point to a manning cliff on the 18X side.

It's all words until they actually drop papers though.

[sqwatch]

It's not just about the money.  Money is in line with the rest of the issues plaguing this job.  Money is just the easiest, most tangible, identifiable symptom of a broader malaise.  My thesis is this: if there was a way to graph other QoL (home and work) indicators, they would roughly correlate. 
We are paid substantially less than we were roughly twenty years ago, in two specific categories:
1) Flight pay
2) ACP
Both of those pays have remained stagnant to inflation for over two decades.  $1k / $35k doesn't nearly cover the spread.  If those two pays were at least adjusted for inflation, the remaining issues would at least change in perspective.  But until that happens, we are essentially negotiating low cost items.  Pushing sleeves up?  Ancillary duties?  Fewer/clickable CBTs?  These are just low/no cost gimmes.

So it's mostly about the money and kinda about the cbts?

I say this tongue in cheek. I find in my later years that QOL has a huge dollar value for me, but i believe a lot of the frustration here and in the rated community in general is an assumption that we are underpaid for our service. I generally agree that assumption is correct in the market place right now (hooray capitalism). Where I disagree is that the military is obligated to pay us more. Also, i try to keep in perspective that i make more than most of my classmates from college.

The idea of windfall profit sharing sounds awesome. Working 12 days a month sounds orgasmic. Getting furloughed and having to withdraw from my savings sounds as bad as an oral transmission of the rash around BQZip's mom's hoo-ha.

Try not to shit on those who stick around for the stability of a paycheck- they may or may not be the lucky ones should the economy go to shit. After all, they still get to act out their childhood fantasies every time they go JFS start 2, and still have enough in the bank to binge order from amazon.


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[raimius]

Fix the QoL issues and people will not demand massive pay increases (so long as people have a "comfortable" upper-middle class base pay).  You'll still lose people looking for better pay, but probably not at an unsustainable level.

OR

Compete with the airlines for pay.  You'll still lose people looking for QoL, but maybe you'll get sustainable numbers.

OR

Fix both and actually have a surplus of pilots (...and unicorns might shower you with pots of gold...)

[Goblin]

OR
Fix both and actually have a surplus of pilots (...and unicorns might shower you with pots of gold...)

Just in time for another VSP/RIF!

[akang2006]

I hear some ANG AGRs received a bonus plan via email. Anyone care to share? I'd love to see some details (unless it will give the Soviets the competitive advantage in pilot retention).

[herkbum]

I hear some ANG AGRs received a bonus plan via email. Anyone care to share? I'd love to see some details (unless it will give the Soviets the competitive advantage in pilot retention).

Will send once I dig up email


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[Prozac]

On 6/15/2017 at 10:36 AM, raimius said:

Fix the QoL issues and people will not demand massive pay increases (so long as people have a "comfortable" upper-middle class base pay).  You'll still lose people looking for better pay, but probably not at an unsustainable level.

OR

Compete with the airlines for pay.  You'll still lose people looking for QoL, but maybe you'll get sustainable numbers.

OR

Fix both and actually have a surplus of pilots (...and unicorns might shower you with pots of gold...)

So....golden unicorn showers?

 

 

[Termy]

I have a question:

Why is there a tafms restriction for Afrc but not for the ANG?

Id ask Afrc myself but they didn't put a single way to contact anyone on the message. 

[Smokin]

On 6/14/2017 at 8:43 PM, Jathor said:

Don't forget that that reup will come with its own ADSC.  Early eligible found that out the hard way this year.  Sign up early you can get renegotiate, but it adds an extra year of service commitment without the extra year of pay.  5 years at $25k = $125k.  5 years at $30k + an extra one year service commitment without extra pay comes out to an amazing $25k per year.  They got us good.  Dirty pool AF.

I just read a story about that.  I'd consider having a lawyer look over the verbiage and see if that's legit.  When I looked at the early eligible option when on active duty, it didn't say anything about extending your ADSC.  Total horseshit like that is why guys are leaving.  Telling about some of the AF leadership's true colors when they hide stuff like that in something that is supposed to increase retention.  Is the AF still confused as to why dudes are punching right and left?

[Homestar]

16 minutes ago, Smokin said:

I'd consider having a lawyer look over the verbiage...

From what I've heard on the MAF FB page the lawyers looked at the NDAA and decided that the AF had to do it this way to comply with the law Congress wrote. 

[ToyotaMC1]

Thinking about taking the 1-2 year option. Any advice? 

[ColoradoAviator]

Thinking about taking the 1-2 year option. Any advice? 

It's only good for 1 or 2 years. Don't count on the ability to sign up again for a longer duration or a higher bonus (without more strings/ADSC attached). You'll be at the mercy of the 2018/2019 program later f you so choose.


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[ToyotaMC1]

31 minutes ago, ColoradoAviator said:

 

It's only good for 1 or 2 years. Don't count on the ability to sign up again for a longer duration or a higher bonus (without more strings/ADSC attached). You'll be at the mercy of the 2018/2019 program later f you so choose.


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I'll be at my 19 year mark when the commitment runs out if I take the 2 year option.

[Jaded]

55 minutes ago, ToyotaMC1 said:

Thinking about taking the 1-2 year option. Any advice? 

Are you going to stay in regardless? Take the bonus.

Do you want to get out right now? Don't take the bonus.

If you have 17 years in, the correct answer is get an AGR job for 3 years, take the AGR bonus, retire with an AD retirement at 20 years and chaff 3 years of AD bullshit. I assume, though, that that ship has already sailed.

[Mojo]

3 hours ago, Homestar said:

From what I've heard on the MAF FB page the lawyers looked at the NDAA and decided that the AF had to do it this way to comply with the law Congress wrote. 

The JAGs at SAF/GC are the ones claiming that the early takers owe an additional one year extra to get this year's bonus. That does not mean that every lawyer agrees with that idea (l do not agree that an extra 12 months are required since that is no where in the NDAA). There's a FBI group for "early take avb action group" if anyone is interested or would like to assist. 

[ToyotaMC1]

56 minutes ago, Mojo said:

The JAGs at SAF/GC are the ones claiming that the early takers owe an additional one year extra to get this year's bonus. That does not mean that every lawyer agrees with that idea (l do not agree that an extra 12 months are required since that is no where in the NDAA). There's a FBI group for "early take avb action group" if anyone is interested or would like to assist. 

My ADSC ends on 28 June. I signed up for the bonus on MyPers today. When AFPC actually sends me the paperwork I will let you guys know whether an extra year was added or not. 

[Guest]

4 hours ago, ToyotaMC1 said:

My ADSC ends on 28 June. I signed up for the bonus on MyPers today. When AFPC actually sends me the paperwork I will let you guys know whether an extra year was added or not. 

The extra year is for those who said yes2bonus last year under the early eligible program.  Those who opted to sign up early last year at 5 or 9 years for 25K have the option now to amend their deal to the higher $ amount, but at the cost of an extra year of ADSC. 

[Homestar]

5 hours ago, ihtfp06 said:

The extra year is for those who said yes2bonus last year under the early eligible program.  Those who opted to sign up early last year at 5 or 9 years for 25K have the option now to amend their deal to the higher $ amount, but at the cost of an extra year of ADSC. 

So my understanding is that early signers will get one payment of $25k then 9 payments of $30k (for MAF pilots). Hence the additional year ADSC since they'll be getting 10 years of payments. 

Or they could stay in their current contract and receive 9 payments of $25k and get out at 20 YAS. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Homestar said:

So my understanding is that early signers will get one payment of $25k then 9 payments of $30k (for MAF pilots). Hence the additional year ADSC since they'll be getting 10 years of payments. 

Or they could stay in their current contract and receive 9 payments of $25k and get out at 20 YAS. 

The way I read the PSDM, I think it's actually one payment of $25K, 8 payments of $30K, and the last year is unpaid.  10 years of ADSC, but only 9 years of pay.