Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[snoopyeast]

1 hour ago, BFM this said:

I already put money down on our new swimming pool 

Jelly of the Month club for you.

[Kenny Powers]

Jelly of the Month club for you.

It's the gift that keeps on giving...

 

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[Duck]

I've said it before, I'll say it again. Congress doesn't trust the AF to be good managers of money. (Ironic...)


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[Guardian]

Yea, it's definitely the fault of a few random captains that the AF undervalues pilots.  I'm sure congress was just about to give us 60$k annual bonuses till those guys ed it up...

Sorry. Didn't mean to blame those guys. Just congress for latching on to that message instead of the other messages they were delivering. Poor choice of words on my part.


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[Smokin]

I don't blame those dudes for voicing their opinions, but they probably could have framed the argument better.  If money doesn't matter then why is the bonus thread on page 139?  If money doesn't matter, then why do all the airline guys talk about how much money they can make and all the AD guys ease drop whenever the conversation comes up?

[Champ Kind]

Maybe those guys had made up their minds at that point and no amount of money could have swayed them.

[daynightindicator]

I don't blame those dudes for voicing their opinions, but they probably could have framed the argument better.  If money doesn't matter then why is the bonus thread on page 139?  If money doesn't matter, then why do all the airline guys talk about how much money they can make and all the AD guys ease drop whenever the conversation comes up?

They (at least half of them) were briefed beforehand that harping on the bonus would be a non starter with Sen Cotton. He already thought $25K was more than enough and he is stuck on the "service before self" mantra. They were advised (but not directed) that it might waste their valuable time with him if they went in guns blazing on the bonus.


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[ViperMan]

30 minutes ago, daynightindicator said:

They (at least half of them) were briefed beforehand that harping on the bonus would be a non starter with Sen Cotton. He already thought $25K was more than enough and he is stuck on the "service before self" mantra. They were advised (but not directed) that it might waste their valuable time with him if they went in guns blazing on the bonus.

 

I can think of no better way to get to valid lessons learned than to skip the shot val, quarter back a root cause, and then chalk it up to a couple of execution errors. Sounds like a winning formula.

Too bad it sounds like the Senator wasted some valuable time with those flying the line by putting up the lane bumpers before hand. I just wonder who it was who "briefed" them as to what the man was open and/or not open to hearing. Was it congressional staffers or AF people?

Fvck it. Dark visor down. Banzai.

ETA: I'm convinced the strategy is to buckle down, attempt to weather the storm, avoid setting a (high) bonus precedent, and hope for the best.

Edited June 30, 2017 by ViperMan

[daynightindicator]

I can think of no better way to get to valid lessons learned than to skip the shot val, quarter back a root cause, and then chalk it up to a couple of execution errors. Sounds like a winning formula.
Too bad it sounds like the Senator wasted some valuable time with those flying the line by putting up the lane bumpers before hand. I just wonder who it was who "briefed" them as to what the man was open and/or not open to hearing. Was it congressional staffers or AF people?
Fvck it. Dark visor down. Banzai.

HAF/A3 rep and SAF/LL

Both really good dudes. They weren't trying to dissuade the pilots from anything, just relaying the background on the situation and trying to give them some IPOE.


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[ViperMan]

2 minutes ago, daynightindicator said:

 

HAF/A3 rep and SAF/LL

Both really good dudes. They weren't trying to dissuade the pilots from anything, just relaying the background on the situation and trying to give them some IPOE.


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So I guess they must have talked with the congressional staffers beforehand?

[daynightindicator]

So I guess they must have talked with the congressional staffers beforehand?

That's the impression I got. The negotiations over the bonus and retention issue have been going for a while. SAF/LL handles interaction with congressional staff, and they work closely with HAF on that stuff.

Personally I wouldn't want to roll into a meeting with congress without a little intel on who I was talking to and what they already knew.


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[ViperMan]

14 minutes ago, daynightindicator said:

That's the impression I got. The negotiations over the bonus and retention issue have been going for a while. SAF/LL handles interaction with congressional staff, and they work closely with HAF on that stuff.

Personally I wouldn't want to roll into a meeting with congress without a little intel on who I was talking to and what they already knew.

I agree in principle, and also would want to walk in informed. I just think it begs the question "why"? i.e. Why do you need to speak to guys flying the line to "get the ground truth", but put certain "truths" off limits?

The only thing I can think of is it was just an information gathering session to support pre-conceived conclusions for a (unknown to us) course of action that has already been mapped out. Kind of like my technique for completing ACSC papers - which we all know are bull shit: here's what I think, now I just need to find a couple of quotes that will support that...and, box checked, on to what I really care about.

Makes me think these pilots were used.

Edited June 30, 2017 by ViperMan

[Smokin]

16 minutes ago, ViperMan said:

The only thing I can think of is it was just an information gathering session to support pre-conceived conclusions for a (unknown to us) course of action that has already been mapped out. Kind of like my technique for completing ACSC papers - which we all know are bull shit: here's what I think, now I just need to find a couple of quotes that will support that...and, box checked, on to what I really care about.

Makes me think these pilots were used.

ACSC might actually be the best analogy yet to big blue's, an apparently Congress' approach...  'I don't care what the facts are, I don't care about getting to the bottom of the cause, I don't really want to even be talking about this.  What is the absolute fastest way to make it look like I care, make it look like I did my research, but really just get a passing grade so I can move on.'

[Air V]

They could easily win a few points by making the flight pay increase retroactive for the fiscal year. It'd be a nice little bonus without any commitment required. It would show that maybe they do care an ounce without needing something in return. Should be doable since Congress gave them the OK on the increase prior to FY17.

(it won't happen)

[FourFans]

 

They (at least half of them) were briefed beforehand that harping on the bonus would be a non starter with Sen Cotton. He already thought $25K was more than enough and he is stuck on the "service before self" mantra. They were advised (but not directed) that it might waste their valuable time with him if they went in guns blazing on the bonus.

 

 

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Service bias bleeding through during Cotton's second career.

 

Non-flying army officers in general do not like USAF pilots. Too much hair product perhaps...or perhaps it has to do with life outlook and freedom. Pilots have the airlines to look forward to (I cringe at typing that...I will deeply miss tactical flying), while ground dwelling Army officers get to look forward to being a civilian in the Army staff they just left.

 

Working with the Army has taught me that they embrace the service first mentality at an epic level. Asking for more money would be hypocrisy to them.

 

 

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[ImNotARobot]

2 hours ago, FourFans130 said:

Pilots have the airlines to look forward to (I cringe at typing that...I will deeply miss tactical flying)

Cringe at what exactly? Getting paid more money than you can spend while having half the month at home?

[daynightindicator]

I agree in principle, and also would want to walk in informed. I just think it begs the question "why"? i.e. Why do you need to speak to guys flying the line to "get the ground truth", but put certain "truths" off limits?
The only thing I can think of is it was just an information gathering session to support pre-conceived conclusions for a (unknown to us) course of action that has already been mapped out. Kind of like my technique for completing ACSC papers - which we all know are bull shit: here's what I think, now I just need to find a couple of quotes that will support that...and, box checked, on to what I really care about.
Makes me think these pilots were used.

Actually, the impetus for the meeting was a letter from an active duty pilot constituent of Cotton's. The writer suggested Cotton should get the pulse of the guys on the line, because he felt that message was getting filtered by the time it made it to the GO level. Cotton contacted SAF and asked for the meeting.


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[cragspider]

5 hours ago, ImNotARobot said:

Cringe at what exactly? Getting paid more money than you can spend while having half the month at home?

I think Four Fans is saying that he will miss the tactical flying.  That is what most of us will miss. 

[ImNotARobot]

54 minutes ago, cragspider said:

I think Four Fans is saying that he will miss the tactical flying.  That is what most of us will miss. 

I...get it.

The second half of an AD AF career is filled mostly with the opposite of what the Peter Pan line flyer wants. I say again, the solution to never growing up, flying the line, having the freedom to live where you want, go to an airline, NOT go to an airline, get paid, potentially even find happiness, etc lies in the ARC. The ARC certainly has its warts, but chief among its many advantages is the ability to say NO. And being a member of the ARC doesn't have to be a life sentence. Stay (in most cases) as long as you want. It can serve as a transition lily pad to stabilize the family while other big life pieces fall into place. 

It's tough to see the truth of the entire landscape when peering through jail bars, wrapped in an AD welfare blanket and handcuffed to a AF commitment. I know why the caged bird sings, Crag. And I'm sure glad I didn't let the AF steamroll my escape tunnel behind that Rita Hayworth poster.

[LookieRookie]

The AF capitulated to pressure. The AvB PSDM was changed today and now early takers still have the additional year, but they get paid for it if they renegotiate it.

 

"Aviators will be paid for the additional year of commitment at the renegotiated annual contract amount."

[17D_guy]

7 hours ago, LookieRookie said:

The AF capitulated to pressure. The AvB PSDM was changed today and now early takers still have the additional year, but they get paid for it if they renegotiate it.

 

"Aviators will be paid for the additional year of commitment at the renegotiated annual contract amount."

How. Hard. Was. That.

Holy shit.

[Guest]

16 hours ago, LookieRookie said:

The AF capitulated to pressure. The AvB PSDM was changed today and now early takers still have the additional year, but they get paid for it if they renegotiate it.

 

"Aviators will be paid for the additional year of commitment at the renegotiated annual contract amount."

Just shows how powerful a tool SM is. I doubt the early takers story would have had the visibility it had 10, 15 years ago. Nothing like a dose of bad press for an organization to do the right thing. 

 

Right thing: I say I am hurting for pilots, so let me not quibble with such a small bone the early takers are growling about and give them the extra $$$.

[Wing Sweep]

On 6/27/2017 at 8:19 PM, g2s said:

I took the one year bonus, $30k. Paid in two installments: 25+5.

First installment paid today: $18.75k, so taxed at a 25% rate.  Second install should arrive in the next few weeks.

18 months left before I hit 20 years, so it was a no-brainer. 

From submitting my app to the first chunk of money in the bank was 21 days. 

5k installment (minus 25% tax) paid today, two weeks after the first installment. 

35 days to receive both installments (21+14) from the day I hit submit. 

Edited July 12, 2017 by g2s

[Lord Ratner]

5k installment (minus 25% tax) paid today, two weeks after the first installment. 
35 days to receive both installments (21+14) from the day I hit submit. 

Hell yeah! Nice to see an actual good deal

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[Guardian]

Wish they would get rid of the arrears thing. That really sucks.


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