osulax05 Posted July 14, 2017 Posted July 14, 2017 Data point: House version of the FY18 that passed today authorizes bonus increase to $50K. I imagine that will quickly get squashed in the Senate.
billy pilgrim Posted July 15, 2017 Posted July 15, 2017 Just wanted to confirm that the shorter bonuses are not being offered to uncommitted types? My UPT ADSC expired last year and I didn't take the bonus. Never got an email from AFPC and it looked like the email sent to a friend who's ADSC expires this year is worded so that I wouldn't be included. Any data on this?
Motofalcon Posted July 15, 2017 Posted July 15, 2017 2 minutes ago, billy pilgrim said: Just wanted to confirm that the shorter bonuses are not being offered to uncommitted types? My UPT ADSC expired last year and I didn't take the bonus. Never got an email from AFPC and it looked like the email sent to a friend who's ADSC expires this year is worded so that I wouldn't be included. Any data on this? That is true. The FY17 bonus only had one category of eligible pilots - initial eligible, i.e. your UPT ADSC expired in FY2017. No early eligibles, and anyone who had taken a previous bonus (not an early taker, but an actual previous bonus) was not eligible to renegotiate.
the g-man Posted July 15, 2017 Posted July 15, 2017 (edited) On 6/29/2017 at 10:31 PM, ihtfp06 said: It was mentioned in the AvB announcement: "The Air Force is also looking at additional monetary incentives for aviation, especially those targeted at mid-career aviators. The fiscal 2017 NDAA provided authorization to increase Aviation Incentive Pay, commonly known as monthly flight pay, which the service plans to increase this summer." Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk I finally went and did some digging on this... It's a load of shit quite frankly... https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-114publ328/pdf/PLAW-114publ328.pdf On PDF page 161 of this document (the FY 2017 NDAA) you will find this text Quote SEC. 616. AVIATION INCENTIVE PAY AND BONUS MATTERS. (a) MAXIMUM INCENTIVE PAY AND BONUS AMOUNTS.—Paragraph (1) of section 334(c) of title 37, United States Code, is amended by striking subparagraphs (A) and (B) and inserting the following new subparagraphs: ‘‘(A) aviation incentive pay under subsection (a) shall be paid at a monthly rate not to exceed $1,000 per month; and ‘‘(B) an aviation bonus under subsection (b) may not exceed $35,000 for each 12-month period of obligated service agreed to under subsection (d).’’. So what does this mean? Well here you find what they amended: https://uscode.house.gov/download/annualhistoricalarchives/pdf/2012/2012usc37.pdf On PDF page 123 you will find this text: Quote (1) MAXIMUM AMOUNT.—The Secretary concerned shall determine the amount of a bonus or incentive pay to be paid under this section, except that— (A) aviation incentive pay under subsection (a) shall be paid at a monthly rate, not to exceed $850 per month; and (B) an aviation bonus under subsection (b) may not exceed $25,000 for each 12-month period of obligated service agreed to under subsection (d). Earlier in Title 37 there is a table that lists the ACIP rates as you find them in the DFAS pay charts, the max is $840. So all they did in the 2017 NDAA is up that max allowed rate $150. Peanuts. $150 more authorized on a piece of US code that has not been touched since 1989. Now the House just passed HR 2810 which you will find no mention of ACIP, however in this bill they did increase max bonus to $50k. Bottom line; what's the deal here? Do military aviators not have a good lobby or advocate in DC? It seems the MOAA is more concerned with retirees than people on active duty. Have we had our heads in the clouds (literally and figuratively) for too long that we have been afraid to bring up the compensation issue as part of the grander pilot retention program? Why has nobody been paying attention to this facet of being a military aviator? What do we need to do to bring attention to this issue? It's my belief that if you hook them up early, combined with a bonus at the end of their commitment aviators may be less fed up and ready to punch at the 10 y 1 d after getting those wings. Edited July 15, 2017 by the g-man 4
Orbit Posted July 15, 2017 Posted July 15, 2017 3 hours ago, the g-man said: Bottom line; what's the deal here? Do military aviators not have a good lobby or advocate in DC? It seems the MOAA is more concerned with retirees than people on active duty. I agree, and the AFA seems to never even address any of these issues at all when a large percentage of their membership is directly impacted by this. I guess we don't pay the big bucks like the defense contractors to waste time lobbying.
pawnman Posted July 15, 2017 Posted July 15, 2017 8 hours ago, the g-man said: I finally went and did some digging on this... It's a load of shit quite frankly... https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/PLAW-114publ328/pdf/PLAW-114publ328.pdf On PDF page 161 of this document (the FY 2017 NDAA) you will find this text So what does this mean? Well here you find what they amended: https://uscode.house.gov/download/annualhistoricalarchives/pdf/2012/2012usc37.pdf On PDF page 123 you will find this text: Earlier in Title 37 there is a table that lists the ACIP rates as you find them in the DFAS pay charts, the max is $840. So all they did in the 2017 NDAA is up that max allowed rate $150. Peanuts. $150 more authorized on a piece of US code that has not been touched since 1989. Now the House just passed HR 2810 which you will find no mention of ACIP, however in this bill they did increase max bonus to $50k. Bottom line; what's the deal here? Do military aviators not have a good lobby or advocate in DC? It seems the MOAA is more concerned with retirees than people on active duty. Have we had our heads in the clouds (literally and figuratively) for too long that we have been afraid to bring up the compensation issue as part of the grander pilot retention program? Why has nobody been paying attention to this facet of being a military aviator? What do we need to do to bring attention to this issue? It's my belief that if you hook them up early, combined with a bonus at the end of their commitment aviators may be less fed up and ready to punch at the 10 y 1 d after getting those wings. Turns out, we're a minority of the military. I can't really blame MOAA and AFA for not spending their political capital on this specific issue, though. They're probably burning a lot more calories battling against Sen McCain's attempts to take away BAH from married military couples.
Steve C Posted July 21, 2017 Posted July 21, 2017 Asking for a friend... Let's say you're an O5 with 20 years of service and you'd like to retire but you have another 18 months ADSC for the bonus. Can you drop paperwork, pay back the unused portion of the bonus and retire? I know a couple bros got out of about 6 months of a PCS ADSC but I haven't seen anyone press-to-test the bonus ADSC yet. Just thought I'd ask all you barracks lawyers out there if there are any special considerations once you are retirement eligible that I'm not aware of.
tac airlifter Posted July 21, 2017 Posted July 21, 2017 (edited) 6 hours ago, Steve C said: Asking for a friend... Let's say you're an O5 with 20 years of service and you'd like to retire but you have another 18 months ADSC for the bonus. Can you drop paperwork, pay back the unused portion of the bonus and retire? I've tried (at 14 years in, not 20), was told I'd need CC's concurrence to submit my request higher. Unfortunately I don't have details on step 2 because I never made it past step 1. Edited July 21, 2017 by tac airlifter
ViperStud Posted July 21, 2017 Posted July 21, 2017 I don't have personal experience but I've seen this play out 2 times with AD dudes and more with Guard dudes. For the AD guys, in both cases the bonus commitment was a no-shit ADSC. Both got hit with deployments in their last 18 months, one a 179 and the other a 365. Both had a bonus commitment that took them ~1 year past 20 and tried to retire at 20. The few guard dudes I know curtailed their AGR tours and paid back the bonus. Not to lecture, but we all knew the risks when we signed/passed on the AD bonus. What did you think was gonna happen? A long track record of AD bending people over and all of a sudden they change their act? Go Guard. 2
Steve C Posted July 21, 2017 Posted July 21, 2017 12 minutes ago, ViperStud said: Not to lecture, but we all knew the risks when we signed/passed on the AD bonus. What did you think was gonna happen? A long track record of AD bending people over and all of a sudden they change their act? 100% valid. And just to be clear, life is good in my corner of the AF and I fully intend to serve out my ADSC, possibly even longer. The issue is aging parents and in-laws. They are holding up ok now, but it's clear that they will need additional assistance before too long. I suppose that's pretty standard for most folks at this point.
Duck Posted July 21, 2017 Posted July 21, 2017 I had a buddy even try to Palace Chase his Bonus ADSC. I don't know the full details but since he is still on AD, I guess he was denied.Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums
ViperStud Posted July 21, 2017 Posted July 21, 2017 1 hour ago, Steve C said: 100% valid. And just to be clear, life is good in my corner of the AF and I fully intend to serve out my ADSC, possibly even longer. The issue is aging parents and in-laws. They are holding up ok now, but it's clear that they will need additional assistance before too long. I suppose that's pretty standard for most folks at this point. I understand, and that was a big factor in my decision to get out. I'm now anchored with the immediate family and in-laws within a 2.5 hour radius. I'm not defending AD per se, but a contract is a fvcking contract and I knew the possibilities ahead...so I said no.
ThreeHoler Posted July 21, 2017 Posted July 21, 2017 Only guy I know to get out of his bonus ADSC was passed over 2x for O-5 and had a bonus ADSC to 21 years. They made him retire at 20 and he didn't get the full final payment. 1
Duck Posted July 21, 2017 Posted July 21, 2017 Only guy I know to get out of his bonus ADSC was passed over 2x for O-5 and had a bonus ADSC to 21 years. They made him retire at 20 and he didn't get the full final payment. That's a great point. I actually know of a guy who signed up for the 10 year bonus and was twice passed over for O-5 so he was out around the 15-16 yearish point.Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums
Guest Posted July 21, 2017 Posted July 21, 2017 So what happens if your ADSC takes you to 21, but you fail your 4th PT test in 2 years right after getting to 20?Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
HossHarris Posted July 21, 2017 Posted July 21, 2017 Your commander recommends release and the board retains you and you waste a bunch of time and have to dust off the service dress. Then they find a sweet 365 for you. That is, of course, assuming "they" are aware of the pilot shortage. 1
Duck Posted July 22, 2017 Posted July 22, 2017 So what happens if your ADSC takes you to 21, but you fail your 4th PT test in 2 years right after getting to 20?Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkAbout 2 years ago the wording of the PT AFI changed ever so slightly. Whereas it used to be an almost auto-separation, now the ball is more in the Commanders best judgement. My guess is using this technique wouldn't get you what you wanted.Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums
panchbarnes Posted July 22, 2017 Posted July 22, 2017 4+ PT failures even if you have 20+ yrs TIS will result in a separation action. You'll have to ask for a retirement waiver with AFPC to receive retirement benefits.
Duck Posted July 22, 2017 Posted July 22, 2017 4+ PT failures even if you have 20+ yrs TIS will result in a separation action. You'll have to ask for a retirement waiver with AFPC to receive retirement benefits.That's interesting because the PT AFI has that separation is an OPTIONAL action after 4+ failures (Table 14.1), but then later says that it is MANDATORY to separate after 4+ failures. Anyone want to push to test to see which one is correct?Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums
panchbarnes Posted July 22, 2017 Posted July 22, 2017 52 minutes ago, Duck said: Anyone want to push to test to see which one is correct? Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums Mandatory wins... 1
Sprkt69 Posted July 22, 2017 Posted July 22, 2017 14 hours ago, Steve C said: 100% valid. And just to be clear, life is good in my corner of the AF and I fully intend to serve out my ADSC, possibly even longer. The issue is aging parents and in-laws. They are holding up ok now, but it's clear that they will need additional assistance before too long. I suppose that's pretty standard for most folks at this point. This is exactly why I went Guard and that was the best decision I could have ever made.
HossHarris Posted July 22, 2017 Posted July 22, 2017 16 hours ago, Duck said: That's interesting because the PT AFI has that separation is an OPTIONAL action after 4+ failures (Table 14.1), but then later says that it is MANDATORY to separate after 4+ failures. Anyone want to push to test to see which one is correct? Sent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums E vs O?
Guest Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 It was discussed before in this thread, but any updates to if our monthly flight pay is going to increase this summer? https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/1202627/air-force-announces-significant-changes-to-aviation-bonus-program/
di1630 Posted July 23, 2017 Posted July 23, 2017 It was discussed before in this thread, but any updates to if our monthly flight pay is going to increase this summer? https://www.af.mil/News/Article-Display/Article/1202627/air-force-announces-significant-changes-to-aviation-bonus-program/Rumor is possibly in Oct for the new FYSent from my iPhone using Baseops Network Forums
HU&W Posted July 30, 2017 Posted July 30, 2017 AMC/CC is looking at implementing a fly-only track. Probably capped at O-5 and 20 years. 4-5 year PCS cycle. Flying only. https://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/07/30/air-force-gets-creative-to-tackle-pilot-shortage.html 1
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