Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[flyusaf83]

If they did this, with guaranteed O-5 (unless there are major negative indicators), no non-flying deployments, no additional duties, and $50k yr bonus, I'd stay in.

So I won't be staying in.

[cragspider]

1 hour ago, HU&W said:

AMC/CC is looking at implementing a fly-only track.  Probably capped at O-5 and 20 years.  4-5 year PCS cycle.  Flying only.

 

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/07/30/air-force-gets-creative-to-tackle-pilot-shortage.html

Kinda late for this idea. How long have we been saying do something like this and get laughed at? Oh and it's still up to Lt Gen Grosso to help approve this so that's a nope not going to happen. Let's just keep passing over our pilots and keep on pulling harder back on the stick as the pilot manning continues to increase the graveyard spiral that we are currently in. 

[sling-it-17]

Yea I agree in the recent article general everheart talked about "trying" to do some of the things we have been talking about for decades. I read a 1989 ACSC paper about pilot retention that was pretty hilarious. But the things he offered were short of what needs to be done. One example is the shift from 2-3 yrs to 3-4 yrs. That's nothing! How about 5-7 yrs at the same base? That's a real change. I was at my previous base 4 yrs, so how is this a big change?? I truly feel they are not full into the change mindset yet. Because if they were the second Gen grosso told the congressional committee on CSPAN in may that the AF was over 1500 pilots short and getting shorter the other branches generals would have been excused and the rest of the hour would have been spent on real talk not talking points....2019 is my decision year and I'm really amazed of how much talk is happening but nothing in the flying Sqs really are changing. But time will tell. Leadership doesn't need to be stingy right now on any front. More CSS troops, more bonus, more time on station, and less non flying deployments for pilots. Or the exodus will continue. CNN: Airlines are projecting hiring 5800 new pilots per year for the next 20 years.....

[flyguy595]

Here is the bottom line for me. Take my bonus and give me a non-deploying, scheduling master, DTS ninja, ADLS signing, RAP assuring  e-2 at the 25-30k you try to sell me and I'll stay. I'll have all of my OPR's written and my little queep monster doing the extra crap the AF says their going to give the css I haven't seen. I'll be a proficient IP and spend all my time teaching co pilot chucklenuts to be a better pilot instead of SABC and writing my own medals I don't care about. Then I'll stay...maybe.

I don't care to promote or line my pockets, I want to stay and serve but the military makes it hard to serve and feel accomplished at the job you spend years training to do, so guard?

[Chuck17]

2 hours ago, sling-it-17 said:

... and I'm really amazed of how much talk is happening but nothing in the flying Sqs really are changing. But time will tell. 

Little (if anything) will change until the crisis is deepened to the point of systemic failure - THAT is the only time systems change. Everything that's been done until now is prelude. Either we are in for a true departure from the norm, or the storm will be weathered and we will maintain the course. That's not pessimism, that's history.

Either the "old science" works, or we come up with new solutions to solve the problem, and that becomes the new way of doing business.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Structure_of_Scientific_Revolutions

Chuck

 

[Guest]

Any word on the take rates yet? 2 months to go...

[ViperStud]

34 minutes ago, ihtfp06 said:

Any word on the take rates yet? 2 months to go...

With two months to go, aren't we technically closer to the release than we are the end of the sign-up window?  Sad state of affairs when you're dealing with a "crisis" and only have the bonus sign-up window open ~1/3 of the FY.

[cragspider]

1 hour ago, ViperStud said:

With two months to go, aren't we technically closer to the release than we are the end of the sign-up window?  Sad state of affairs when you're dealing with a "crisis" and only have the bonus sign-up window open ~1/3 of the FY.

You mean we are almost 9 months out from the release of the FY18 announcement and 11 months out from the date you can sign up.  You are correct though when they can't even get the bonus out on time to get guys to stay. Gee I wonder why people aren't taking the bonus? Maybe we don't even take them seriously anymore when they aren't trying to get guys to stay in longer. 

[Dogs-N-Guns]

They moved where they post the numbers, but you can still look them up with a CAC. It looks to be a little worse than last year, but the numbers are padded with the early-signers. Since there is no early option for FY17, the real effects probably won't be seen until FY18.

Edited July 31, 2017 by Dogs-N-Guns
spelling

[Guest]

They moved where they post the numbers, but you can still look them up with a CAC. It looks to be a little worse than last year, but the numbers are padded with the early-signers. Since there is no early option for FY17, the real effects probably won't be seen until FY18.

Are the 1, 2, 5, 9, and 13 yr options broken out or all lumped together?

[Dogs-N-Guns]

 

1 hour ago, ihtfp06 said:

Are the 1, 2, 5, 9, and 13 yr options broken out or all lumped together?

Two categories, Long (>5 years) and Short. There are roughly and equal number of both for the FY17 contracts, but those numbers combined are dwarfed by the early-signers. With less than 70 days in FY17, it doesn't appear that the new bonus had any effect, unless people are just waiting for the last minute.

[Mojo]

15 hours ago, Dogs-N-Guns said:

 

Two categories, Long (>5 years) and Short. There are roughly and equal number of both for the FY17 contracts, but those numbers combined are dwarfed by the early-signers. With less than 70 days in FY17, it doesn't appear that the new bonus had any effect, unless people are just waiting for the last minute.

Over 75% of the total Long contracts are from the Early Enrollees who signed contracts in FY16 and are now getting screwed.  This is from the BBP from HAF/A1P on the "Bonus Shenanigans" the Early Enrollees face:
"FY16 program, as approved, didn't mention that additional service was required to renegotiate. The governing statute and DoDI at the time did not specifically authorize renegotiation even though the AF approved that provision in the FY16 program."

[ThreeHoler]

On 7/30/2017 at 2:37 PM, HU&W said:

AMC/CC is looking at implementing a fly-only track.  Probably capped at O-5 and 20 years.  4-5 year PCS cycle.  Flying only.

 

https://www.military.com/daily-news/2017/07/30/air-force-gets-creative-to-tackle-pilot-shortage.html

If you read it critically, nothing changes. "Maybe make O-5." "3-4 years" when they are already supposed to be that. "Dream sheet final assignment" when we have to fill out an ADP every time we're on the VML.

Smoke and mirrors, fellas...or better "same shit, different day." Move along.

[Duck]

3 hours ago, ThreeHoler said:

If you read it critically, nothing changes. "Maybe make O-5." "3-4 years" when they are already supposed to be that. "Dream sheet final assignment" when we have to fill out an ADP every time we're on the VML.

Smoke and mirrors, fellas...or better "same shit, different day." Move along.

I'm glad you said that because the way I read it I came to the same conclusion. "okay so basically nothing changes except for the fact that you have said that you are changing something". A lot of "Ifs, Maybes and Looking intos".

[Lord Ratner]

It's a shit idea. So we're going to create a system where you have to decide early in your career that you want to be a leader and do a bunch of non flying stuff to get there? How is that different from the current system where you decide early in your career that you want to be a leader and do a bunch of non flying stuff to get there?

I don't trust a pilot who wants to be a general when they are still a copilot/wingman. I see no reason to codify our shitty system of early identification with a policy letter.

I want to see the exact opposite. Promotion boards will only consider the past 3-5 years of service. Create a system where if a good pilot realizes late in her career she has a knack for leading and a desire to make a difference, she isn't shackled by her decision to focus on tactical proficiency and combat hours as a young Captain

[sqwatch]

Why is it so frowned upon to want to be a leader? Why is it assumed that if you do want to go in that path, you're a back stabbing knob bobber?

 

[Snooter]

10 hours ago, Lord Ratner said:

I don't trust a pilot who wants to be a general when they are still a copilot/wingman. I see no reason to codify our shitty system of early identification with a policy letter.

But Lord help you if you want to be an airline pilot following your commitment.  

[Karl Hungus]

1 hour ago, sqwatch said:

Why is it so frowned upon to want to be a leader? Why is it assumed that if you do want to go in that path, you're a back stabbing knob bobber?

 

Why does the AF/military think it has a monopoly on "leadership"?  If anything, very little real "leading" happens in the AF- mostly just management in a leadership position.  Plenty of opportunities to "lead" outside of the AF, despite what it wants you to think.  

[Gazmo]

Yea I agree in the recent article general everheart talked about "trying" to do some of the things we have been talking about for decades. I read a 1989 ACSC paper about pilot retention that was pretty hilarious. But the things he offered were short of what needs to be done. One example is the shift from 2-3 yrs to 3-4 yrs. That's nothing! How about 5-7 yrs at the same base? That's a real change. I was at my previous base 4 yrs, so how is this a big change?? I truly feel they are not full into the change mindset yet. Because if they were the second Gen grosso told the congressional committee on CSPAN in may that the AF was over 1500 pilots short and getting shorter the other branches generals would have been excused and the rest of the hour would have been spent on real talk not talking points....2019 is my decision year and I'm really amazed of how much talk is happening but nothing in the flying Sqs really are changing. But time will tell. Leadership doesn't need to be stingy right now on any front. More CSS troops, more bonus, more time on station, and less non flying deployments for pilots. Or the exodus will continue. CNN: Airlines are projecting hiring 5800 new pilots per year for the next 20 years.....

5,800? Was that a typo? The number is a hell of a lot larger than 5,800. I had thought it was upwards of 30,000.

[nunya]

13 minutes ago, Gazmo said:

On 7/30/2017 at 8:51 PM, sling-it-17 said:

 CNN: Airlines are projecting hiring 5800 new pilots per year for the next 20 years.....

5,800? Was that a typo? The number is a hell of a lot larger than 5,800. I had thought it was upwards of 30,000.

Per year?  5,800 might be a little low if you count EVERY airline, but the big 6 are good for around 4k/yr.  Certainly nowhere near 30k/yr.

[ViperStud]

2 hours ago, sqwatch said:

Why is it so frowned upon to want to be a leader? Why is it assumed that if you do want to go in that path, you're a back stabbing knob bobber?

 

The issue isn't wanting to be a leader, its dudes bending over backwards to check boxes and play the game when they should be studying and becoming lethal in their airframe as Capts. I've seen FAIPs/wingmen burning midnight oil to finish their AAD and people climb all over each other to be the Asian Pacific Islander month POC, no shit. 

We want leaders. We don't want tools who just play the game. The best solution: change the game.

[raimius]

On 7/31/2017 at 4:43 PM, Dogs-N-Guns said:

 

Two categories, Long (>5 years) and Short. There are roughly and equal number of both for the FY17 contracts, but those numbers combined are dwarfed by the early-signers. With less than 70 days in FY17, it doesn't appear that the new bonus had any effect, unless people are just waiting for the last minute.

Well, there wasn't a lot of "wow" to it, IMO.  They didn't even correct for inflation from the last time the bonus changed.

[matmacwc]

The CAF porch page on FBook just put an update about dudes who have run out or didn't take can now take it.  Don't.

[SnapLock]

1 hour ago, matmacwc said:

The CAF porch page on FBook just put an update about dudes who have run out or didn't take can now take it.  Don't.

Yeah, no joke! Don't fall for it gents. Big Blue sure didn't care about the bonus or retention for what? The last 20 or so years. Now they are freaking out and the fact that we are all bailing is not going to make life better for those who stay. It's a trap!

[Azimuth]

22 hours ago, sqwatch said:

Why is it so frowned upon to want to be a leader? Why is it assumed that if you do want to go in that path, you're a back stabbing knob bobber?

 

It's not frowned upon.  However history has shown us in the USAF that being good in your AFSC, especially in the rated world, is sometimes synonymous with being a good leader.  Are there exceptions?  Sure.  However not being good in your AFSC, especially in the rated world, is synonymous with being a terrible leader.

If you want to be a leader as a young punk, go for it, you had just better be great in your AFSC.  It's the "well make sure you only fly once a month so you can be the OG or Wing Exec" type mentality that people are tired of.  People are tired of the less talent getting the promotions and self-describing themselves as "leaders" and Commanders.  The talent right now is leaving the USAF.  The people who are less talented and/or too close to retirement are the ones that stay.  The less talented ones are the ones who are scared to get out, and then try to guilt trip and scare other people to stay in.  They're scared because they know they won't do well in the post-USAF world.   

Want to look at leadership?  Look at Apple.  That company invests a TON of time and energy developing people as leaders.  I've even had a great Wing Commander when I was stationed at Altus who learned a lot about leadership during his fellowship in Cupertino.

https://www.af.mil/About-Us/Biographies/Display/Article/988062/brigadier-general-william-a-spangenthal/