Aviation Continuation Pay (ACP - The Bonus)

[HeloDude]

3 hours ago, Homestar said:

Day one of phase 2 is my guess. 

It's actually the date you officially started UPT.

[Homestar]

1 hour ago, HeloDude said:

It's actually the date you officially started UPT.

Good to know. 

[Gazmo]

My ACIP/AO date is the day I started pilot training.  

It went through NGB to fill the hole and NGB must have ran a MilPds query on who was qualified.

[Guest]

Here's an idea. HAF could offer the bonus with a 10% increase annually. 30K, 33K, 36.3K, etc. there would be an opt-out clause if Congress doesn't raise the AVB ceiling. This would show the AF is serious about making changes, while putting the onus on Congress. 0.69% chance this happens.

[Swizzle]

Easy fix: let guys take the bonus pay when they specify, namely anytime during the contract period, in any amount. Make it like a bank account from DFAS...the servicemember determines when to payout the money; and when it gets taxed. The AF would get a few more takers that way. 

[flyusaf83]

[matmacwc]

This was also shared to Fingers FBOOK account.

[soupafly06]

I signed up and took the Devil's money over two months ago and my anniversary passed last week and so far I haven't seen a payment.  How far after your anniversary did anyone who signed up early get paid?  My assumption is since the agreement was processed months ago that payment would be fairly quick once the anniversary date passed.

[Swizzle]

NDAA 2018 passed House of Reps (much like last year) with:

  SEC. 617. INCREASE IN MAXIMUM.    AMOUNT OF AVIATION BONUS FOR 12-   MONTH PERIOD OF OBLIGATED.  SERVICE.

 Section 334(c)(1)(B) of title 37, United  States Code, is amended by striking  “$35,000” and inserting “$50,000”.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/2810/text/pcs#toc-H9B96A0BBCDD9434EAE44E3AF62ABBA4B

 

Now...what is the Senate going to do?

 

[Guest]

NDAA 2018 passed House of Reps (much like last year) with:
  SEC. 617. INCREASE IN MAXIMUM.    AMOUNT OF AVIATION BONUS FOR 12-   MONTH PERIOD OF OBLIGATED.  SERVICE.

 Section 334©(1)(B) of title 37, United  States Code, is amended by striking  “$35,000” and inserting “$50,000”.

https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-congress/house-bill/2810/text/pcs#toc-H9B96A0BBCDD9434EAE44E3AF62ABBA4B

 

Now...what is the Senate going to do?

 

Last I looked, the Senate version looks to have no raise, and will actually limit the amount for a given "tier" based on that tiers manning level and prior year take rate.

[osulax05]

1 hour ago, ihtfp06 said:

Last I looked, the Senate version looks to have no raise, and will actually limit the amount for a given "tier" based on that tiers manning level and prior year take rate.

 Checks.... both chambers passed their version in early July. 

 

[Swizzle]

9 hours ago, ihtfp06 said:

Last I looked, the Senate version looks to have no raise, and will actually limit the amount for a given "tier" based on that tiers manning level and prior year take rate.

 

7 hours ago, osulax05 said:

 Checks.... both chambers passed their version in early July. 

 

Where do you both see that?

[Guest]

Where do you both see that?

From what I can see, nothing has been passed in the senate yet. You can read the SASC version that's been put to the Senate floor if you google 2018 Senate NDAA. Search the PDF for aviation and you'll find the tier info.

[WTFAF]

I hear FY17 take rate is under 40%. Can anyone confirm?

[Guest]

I hear FY17 take rate is under 40%. Can anyone confirm?

You can get the numbers on RAW through AFPC secure. The numbers are indeed pretty bad (as of 5 sep). Tier 1 (11F) was below 40%, and Tier 2 (11B, 11M, 11S) was barely above. Keep in mind these numbers include the 1 and 2 year takers.

[TnkrToad]

On 9/10/2017 at 7:37 AM, ihtfp06 said:

You can get the numbers on RAW through AFPC secure. The numbers are indeed pretty bad (as of 5 sep). Tier 1 (11F) was below 40%, and Tier 2 (11B, 11M, 11S) was barely above. Keep in mind these numbers include the 1 and 2 year takers.

The take rate listed on RAW is only for long-term (3+ yr) contracts. The overall long-term take (short term take rate doesn't much matter) is right around 40%.

If short term contracts were included, the overall rate would be a little over 50%. Still not good news.

It's noteworthy that for Tier 2, the 11Bs & 11Ss are bringing up the average. 11Ms are still below 40%. Tanker and C-17 bubbas (the two largest MDS pilot communities) seem especially inclined to get out--they're at about 35% right now.

TT

 

Edited September 11, 2017 by TnkrToad
accuracy, grammar

[flyusaf83]

6 hours ago, TnkrToad said:

The take rate listed on RAW is only for long-term (3+ yr) contracts. The overall long-term take (short term take rate doesn't much matter) is right around 40%.

If short term contracts were included, the overall rate would be a little over 50%. Still not good news.

It's noteworthy that for Tier 2, the 11Bs & 11Ss are bringing up the average. 11Ms are still below 40%. Tanker and C-17 bubbas (the two largest MDS pilot communities) seem especially inclined to get out--they're at about 35% right now.

TT

 

Is there public data out there by airframe? I'd like to see a breakdown if it's there.

 

[TnkrToad]

1 hour ago, flyusaf83 said:

Is there public data out there by airframe? I'd like to see a breakdown if it's there.

 

I don't think it's public. All the data, down to each airframe, is posted on AFPC Secure, though. Go to AFPC Secure, then select RAW. In RAW, select Static Demographics. From the list of all the docs, you'll find one that says FY17 ACP Take Rates (or something like that--I'm not using a CAC-enabled computer right now). They break the data down in about 69 different ways--to include numbers of eligibles and takers (both short and long) for each individual MDS. 

[Hunter Rose]

On 9/11/2017 at 8:38 PM, TnkrToad said:

I don't think it's public. All the data, down to each airframe, is posted on AFPC Secure, though. Go to AFPC Secure, then select RAW. In RAW, select Static Demographics. From the list of all the docs, you'll find one that says FY17 ACP Take Rates (or something like that--I'm not using a CAC-enabled computer right now). They break the data down in about 69 different ways--to include numbers of eligibles and takers (both short and long) for each individual MDS. 

That was an interesting read. 

The take rates are abysmal. Especially for the folks eligible for a second bonus. AF is not going to shore up their pilot numbers with that idea unless they start offering A LOT more money. 

 

Edited September 13, 2017 by Hunter Rose

[BashiChuni]

only thing thatll save the AF is a bear economy for a few years...which historically will happen within the next 5-10 years

[Prozac]

1 hour ago, BashiChuni said:

only thing thatll save the AF is a bear economy for a few years...which historically will happen within the next 5-10 years

Even if there is an economic downturn, airline hiring will likely continue at a fairly brisk pace just to cover retirements.  Pilot retention will be a challenge for the foreseeable future.

[BashiChuni]

36 minutes ago, Prozac said:

Even if there is an economic downturn, airline hiring will likely continue at a fairly brisk pace just to cover retirements.  Pilot retention will be a challenge for the foreseeable future.

I hope so!

[Guest]

Senate passed the house version with amendments. I didn't see any amendment striking the House's 50k bonus, so hopefully that made it though. Hopefully a full text of what the Senate passed with amendments will be published soon.

[sling-it-17]

HR2810 did pass by the senate but the passed amendment 1032 sec 617 says bonus is to remain at 35k. So house and senate bills disagree, we'll see what actually gets signed by the POTUS 

[sling-it-17]

So a conference committee will be formed to resolve differences between the house and senate bills. Then voted by both senate and house before the POTUS signs....I don't know how everyone else feels but, I don't think it will get bumped up this year. Maybe next year after they see their "talks about changes" aren't having an effect on the retention numbers...